One universal Sabbath

Spoiler alert: The responses are going to be...
1. no, we do not need to observe the sabbath in Jerusalem.
2. No, we do not need to observe the Sabbath at all, period because...
3. We must observe a Sabbath at least one day of the week but it needn't be strict like the Jews did it, just set aside a day to focus on the Lord.
4. We must observe a Sabbath day, which is Saturday, any other day is incorrect, the sign of the beast and you're going to Hell if you don't do it that way.

Eftsoon said:

Is there any reason why the Sabbath shouldn't be observed according to the time in . , say, Jerusalem?

The biblical writers didn't have a concept of time zones, since travel and communication were too slow for this to have any real practical bearing. Time zones are a result of immediate information transfer across large distances. We need to synchronise things across great distances.

This creates the preposterous scenario where it's the Sabbath in New York but not in England. This creates all sorts of complications, and creates an uncessary and artificial division within the church.

As a unified body, does it not make more sense to have a central reference for the Sabbath? Jerusalem would be an obvious choice, but it needn't be Jerusalem. That location was chosen for its symbolic value.

Consider also that there are places on the globe where there is ,in essence, no sunset. There are places where the sun never sets.The commandment to keep the Sabbath from sundown to sunup thus cannot be taken to be normative.

We might also consider how space travel will further complicate the issue!

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How is it preposterous? The Earth rotates, different days on different parts of it happen. People will figure out space as they get there.

Eftsoon said:

Is there any reason why the Sabbath shouldn't be observed according to the time in . , say, Jerusalem?

The biblical writers didn't have a concept of time zones, since travel and communication were too slow for this to have any real practical bearing. Time zones are a result of immediate information transfer across large distances. We need to synchronise things across great distances.

This creates the preposterous scenario where it's the Sabbath in New York but not in England. This creates all sorts of complications, and creates an uncessary and artificial division within the church.

As a unified body, does it not make more sense to have a central reference for the Sabbath? Jerusalem would be an obvious choice, but it needn't be Jerusalem. That location was chosen for its symbolic value.

Consider also that there are places on the globe where there is ,in essence, no sunset. There are places where the sun never sets.The commandment to keep the Sabbath from sundown to sunup thus cannot be taken to be normative.

We might also consider how space travel will further complicate the issue!

Click to expand...

I will say though, that the Muslims follow prayer and everything based off of the sun and moon wherever they happen to be for the most part. So, basically by the time zone they are in. The only exception is the start of Ramadan and Eids which depends on the moon over Mecca at the time.

Eftsoon said:

This creates all sorts of complications, and creates an uncessary and artificial division within the church.

Click to expand...

Not really. Jews have been observing this way for centuries.

Eftsoon said:

Is there any reason why the Sabbath shouldn't be observed according to the time in . , say, Jerusalem?

The biblical writers didn't have a concept of time zones, since travel and communication were too slow for this to have any real practical bearing. Time zones are a result of immediate information transfer across large distances. We need to synchronise things across great distances.

This creates the preposterous scenario where it's the Sabbath in New York but not in England. This creates all sorts of complications, and creates an uncessary and artificial division within the church.

As a unified body, does it not make more sense to have a central reference for the Sabbath? Jerusalem would be an obvious choice, but it needn't be Jerusalem. That location was chosen for its symbolic value.

Consider also that there are places on the globe where there is ,in essence, no sunset. There are places where the sun never sets.The commandment to keep the Sabbath from sundown to sunup thus cannot be taken to be normative.

We might also consider how space travel will further complicate the issue!

Click to expand...

Brother, you seem to see God's wisdom in what He shares in Hebrews 3 and 4. God's prime meridian is Eden on the International Date Line. United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Eftsoon said:

Is there any reason why the Sabbath shouldn't be observed according to the time in . , say, Jerusalem?

The biblical writers didn't have a concept of time zones, since travel and communication were too slow for this to have any real practical bearing. Time zones are a result of immediate information transfer across large distances. We need to synchronise things across great distances.

This creates the preposterous scenario where it's the Sabbath in New York but not in England. This creates all sorts of complications, and creates an uncessary and artificial division within the church.

As a unified body, does it not make more sense to have a central reference for the Sabbath? Jerusalem would be an obvious choice, but it needn't be Jerusalem. That location was chosen for its symbolic value.

Consider also that there are places on the globe where there is ,in essence, no sunset. There are places where the sun never sets.The commandment to keep the Sabbath from sundown to sunup thus cannot be taken to be normative.

We might also consider how space travel will further complicate the issue!

Click to expand...

God is he Creator of all things and the Sabbath was created in the Garden of Eden. Genesis 2:1-3. No one knows where the Garden of Eden is and God wants everyone to enjoy the blessing of the Sabbath. There is no mention that the Sabbath is to be observed according to a specific time-zone. The Sabbath is meant to be a blessing for everyone and can be enjoyed from sundown to sundown (Fri-Sat) on our each time zones. We do not have a God of confusion.

The gracious Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God’s perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.)

SabbathBlessings said:

God is he Creator of all things and the Sabbath was created in the Garden of Eden. Genesis 2:1-3. No one knows where the Garden of Eden is and God wants everyone to enjoy the blessing of the Sabbath.

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The garden of Eden is where the tree of life is, and Jesus Christ is that tree of life, so of course nobody knows where that is, apart from those the Son reveals Himself to..




1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.





The sabbath was made for those under the law, as the sabbath was only observed by those under the law.


Now the universal sabbath is not doing your own pleasure on any day, notice that Jesus ALWAYS DOES WHAT PLEASES THE FATHER ( ON ALL DAYS NOT JUST SIX)


John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

prophecy_uk said:

The sabbath was made for those under the law, as the sabbath was only observed by those under the law.


Now the universal sabbath is not doing your own pleasure on any day, notice that Jesus ALWAYS DOES WHAT PLEASES THE FATHER ( ON ALL DAYS NOT JUST SIX)


John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

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According to Jesus the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and man was created on the six day Genesis 1:26 so you seem to be disagreeing with Jesus here. The Sabbath was created before sin Genesis 2:1-3 and will continue to be God's chosen day of worship for ALL FLESH (those saved) for eternity after sin Isaiah 66:23 just the way God always intended.

I disagree with your interpretation of what the Sabbath day is and the Sabbath commandment really makes it very clear. I agree we should worship God everyday, but that does not dismiss the 4th commandment .

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

You also seemed to add your own interpretation on Isaiah 58:13. The Lord does not say all days here, He very specifically says the seventh day is the Lord's holy day. I don't think we should be adding our own words when God's Word is so pure.

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,

Hope this helps. God bless

SabbathBlessings said:

According to Jesus the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and man was created on the six day Genesis 1:26 so you seem to be disagreeing with Jesus here. The Sabbath was created before sin Genesis 2:1-3 and will continue to be God's chosen day of worship for ALL FLESH (those saved) for eternity after sin Isaiah 66:23 just the way God always intended.

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Man was not made for the sabbath, the sabbath was made for law abiding man.

Man did not keep even one day holy in that law.

We have a new law of faith, it cant be the same law or faith is no more faith.

Your one and constant pointed out weakness is you never teach of faith, and yet you think your law teaching somehow is faith..


Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work

SabbathBlessings said:

You also seemed to add your own interpretation on Isaiah 58:13. The Lord does not say all days here, He very specifically says the seventh day is the Lord's holy day. I don't think we should be adding our own words when God's Word is so pure.

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,

Click to expand...

Israel did not turn their foot from doing their pleasure, that is why we needed Christ to show us the way in the FAITH OF CHRIST.

Nor can they speak Gods words, we needed Christ to tell us all He alone heard of the Father.



Forward to chapter 65, and the Lord slays these law keeper failers, then they who bless themselves bless in the God of truth * by the Spirit of truth released to them)...

Isaiah 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.



The Holy day to the Lord is ONE SPECIAL DAY, when the Lord took the iniquity off the world in that day, a day known to the Lord, when Christ died that evening and rise again to give faith, not your law..



Zechariah 3:9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.


Zechariah 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

I told all sabbath keepers, I challenge them all, and I can be very direct, who wants to talk on every single point with me.

You cannot make things cleverly, that is what the Jews did with Jesus, but Jesus answered in faith, such as none are married in the resurrection, when they heard from Moses how to marry by brothers when the woman's husband kept dying.

They kept lacking the power of God, if you think you have power to show sabbath keeping as faith, show it, because I think I have the power to show it as law, which then is not of faith.

spiritfilledjm said:

Spoiler alert: The responses are going to be...
1. no, we do not need to observe the sabbath in Jerusalem.
2. No, we do not need to observe the Sabbath at all, period because...
3. We must observe a Sabbath at least one day of the week but it needn't be strict like the Jews did it, just set aside a day to focus on the Lord.
4. We must observe a Sabbath day, which is Saturday, any other day is incorrect, the sign of the beast and you're going to Hell if you don't do it that way.

Click to expand...

It's not an issue anyone should worry about.
Well, maybe people collecting money to keep a church building open.

Eftsoon said:

Is there any reason why the Sabbath shouldn't be observed according to the time in , say, Jerusalem?

Click to expand...

Yes. Because people were not orbiting the Earth or telecasting the setting of the sun in Israel at the time of Sinai -- so humans all around the world could not know about the fact of a sun set which would in theory be happening at 2 AM somebody's time, without such technology.

prophecy_uk said:

They kept lacking the power of God, if you think you have power to show sabbath keeping as faith, show it, because I think I have the power to show it as law, which then is not of faith.

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Well when that thread gets started -- then start with "do not take God's name in vain" and show us how it takes faith to not take God's name in vain but takes no faith to worship God on the 7th day -- even though both are included in the Law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers in Jere 31:31-34 as the Law written on the heart under the New Covenant.. Much easier to just "look up in the sky and see the sun set"

Eftsoon said:

Is there any reason why the Sabbath shouldn't be observed according to the time in , say, Jerusalem?

The biblical writers didn't have a concept of time zones, since travel and communication were too slow for this to have any real practical bearing. Time zones are a result of immediate information transfer across large distances. We need to synchronise things across great distances.

This creates the awkward scenario where it's the Sabbath in New York but not in England. This creates all sorts of complications, and creates an uncessary and artificial division within the church.

As a unified body, does it not make more sense to have a central reference for the Sabbath? Jerusalem would be an obvious choice, but it needn't be Jerusalem. That location was chosen for its symbolic value.

Consider also that there are places on the globe where there is ,in essence, no sunset. There are places where the sun never sets.The commandment to keep the Sabbath from sundown to sunup thus cannot be taken to be normative.

We might also consider how space travel will further complicate the issue!

Click to expand...

Why would a Gentile honor the Sabbath?

I hope your not inferring that Gentiles are under the law and must be circumcised?

BobRyan said:

Well when that thread gets started -- then start with "do not take God's name in vain" and show us how it takes faith to not take God's name in vain but takes no faith to worship God on the 7th day -- even though both are included in the Law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers in Jere 31:31-34 as the Law written on the heart under the New Covenant.. Much easier to just "look up in the sky and see the sun set"

Click to expand...

I don't think that Jeremiah understood the revelation of the law, that is, written not on stone tablets but on the human heart.

You can take the name of Jesus in vain and your forgiven. Which completely contradicts, "do not take God's name in vain."

Matthew 12:32
Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him.

Christ is the fulfillment of the law and the prophets, which means, that Christ fulfilled the Old Testament.

Romans 3:21
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets.

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

klutedavid said:

I don't think that Jeremiah understood the revelation of the law, that is, written not on stone tablets but on the human heart.
.

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Jeremiah is the one who wrote this -

31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.” Jer 31

Which is just what Moses said about it as well Deut 6:6

And it is that same Moses standing with Christ in glory in Matt 17

And it is that same Jer 31 statement that is quoted verbatim in Heb 8 - unchanged