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If that is true, it would have to have occurred after Noah's flood.
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World Flood???
- Thread starter dóxatotheó
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I'm glad you started this thread.
Second only to Creationism, I love discussing the Flood.
Not necessarily.dóxatotheó said:
If it was a miracle that bypassed science, the proof would have to come from another source.
Unless God left some "markers" behind on purpose.
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Well, it is certainly worldly.
Expecting the Bible to be scientific would be like expecting Bill Gate's diary to be a computer manual.dóxatotheó said:
Science is predominately uniformitarian; whereas the Bible is predominantly catastrophic.dóxatotheó said:
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So he clean up the mess, how is there 0 archaeological proof of it. Like don't you know certain rocks and minerals reacts to water yk that right?
God left proof for the flood, you dk the Mesopotamia massive flood, archaeological find?
Thanks me too.
Certain aspects of science isn't proven yet but rather used as an argument against theism such as multiverse, Darwinism evolution, and Universe coming in existence from constant fluctuations and not an expansion from the constant fluctuations. Which is mathematically impossible.
Bible is very scientific, just gotta put to time and work to find it, alot of people who believe theistic evolution find many verses that align with science in every aspect of it.
Thats just false, some theories and study come from archaeology and some come from observations which is uniformitarian and I agree with you on that aspect. Do you believe it's not?
Bible is predominantly middle grounded between the Old Testament and New Testament.
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There's nothing wrong with scientists out there looking for water marks for Noah's flood.
If they'd rather walk by sight, let them.
What's wrong, though, is their conclusions when they don't find any.
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interesting
That a world flood isn't possible and that it had 0 archaeological proof for it.
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... unless God orchestrates it.
Correct.dóxatotheó said:
There is zero archaeological proof for the Flood -- (white cliffs and meandering rivers withstanding).
God cleaned up His mess and terraformed the earth back to pristine condition, as attested to by the dove bringing back an olive leaf.
This was done for safety and sanitary reasons; as well as providing an environment where the earth could be quickly replenished.
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The story is recounted by somebody on the boat. Not somebody on the moon looking down.
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coffee4u
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There are flood stories all over the world. After any large event there is going to be much talk and when humanity was split up at the Tower of Babel with different languages the various groups past down the story verbally and in written form from what they had been told.
If you have ever played whispers you will know that stories told by people do not stay consistent, they change and morph.
Indeed even 3 eyewitnesses to a scene may observe something different or notice one thing over another and even an hour later when asked by police may have somewhat different stories. Now imagine that story being passed down for hundreds of years in different languages, it's going to change. People are not very reliable at keeping the facts of a story straight without adding embellishments or changing certain things to sound better. Makes for better fire side tales. This doesn't mean the story is made up, because a story is so widespread, across different languages and cultures indicates there is a grain of truth running through them all, that at the core there is a true story from which all the others sprung.
God had Mosses write down the true details of how the flood happened so that the facts would be kept for all time and every generation. The fact that the Mesopotamian version was written down first is of no importance. God ensured Moses wrote down the truth as scripture. So that when the other stories were looked at they could be compared back to the truth.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
We can trust the Biblical account as being the true story.
Actually finding the Mesopotamian flood story online -difficult. All I find are articles.
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SilverBear
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so who wrote the Mesopotamian Flood story and how could it predate Noah?
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coffee4u
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I have no idea who wrote the Mesopotamian Flood story except they were descendants of Noah's family.
God saved Noah and his wife, 3 sons and their wives, and them only.
Genesis 7
22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
Everyone is descended from them.
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SilverBear
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So some descendant managed to write something after the tower of Babel that predated Noah?
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coffee4u
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The Tower of Babel occurs some years after Noah and his family left the ark and began to repopulate the world.
His children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and so on would be very familiar with Noah's account of how the world was destroyed and remade.
Genesis 10 lists names of some descendants of Shem, Ham and Japheth. They would have all known the account.
Genesis 11 talks about how they were one group with one language.
Genesis 11
The Tower of Babel
11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
Until the Lord scattered them with many languages.
8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.
They each took and changed their version of the flood story.
If someone claims the flood story predates Noah then there is an obvious mistake since it can hardly predate the main person involved.
It then comes back to do you trust scripture or not? I do.
If I trust Jesus to save me I also trust that his word is correct. A God who leaves a book full of errors is hardly a God to be following.
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SilverBear
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the tower of Babel took place 339 years after. so there would have been about 1000 people around for that event - making it hard to get 7000 different languages
or the story is metaphorical not historic which would explain why there are many flood myths older than Noah's
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coffee4u
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The Bible is not a calculator and it's a mistake to use genealogies as one. There were enough people to split into groups with their own languages, however many were in a group it doesn't say.
At this time people still married within their own family so they did not yet have a need to find partners they were not closely related too. They were still marrying into close family by the time of Abraham some years past this as he married his half sister Sarah.
135+ languages families have been identified across the world not 7000. Like stories, languages change and morph between groups of people as time goes on to become individualized to an area, the individualization wasn't there the day it occurred.
If the story was metaphorical God would have said so. Jesus was always clear his listeners knew when he was speaking a parable. The New Testament also confirms that Noah was a real person who experienced this event.
Luke 17:27
They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
1 Peter 3:20
Because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
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coffee4u
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Both.
If Jesus, Paul and Peter thought Noah and the events were true, who am I to argue with them?
Luke 17:27
They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
1 Peter 3:20
Because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
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SilverBear
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Ethnologue, the people who collect, catalog and record languages say there are 7,117 languages in the world and that number is shrinking.
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coffee4u
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I didn't say languages I said language groups.
A language family is a group of languages related through descent from a common ancestral language. God gave them language groups, the same way he gave animal kinds at creation and then time has changed and split them off into many languages and dialects.
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