name it

RandyPNW said:

Name It and Claim It. Where have Prosperity Preachers gone wrong? They have brought Christianity into disrepute by claiming things that are luxurious and over-the-top, making Christianity out to be a fraud, corrupt, greedy, and deceitful. When things "claimed" do not materialize, they simply move on to the next "claim." I could go into detail, but I won't, because my concern here is to correct--not to harm.

When Jesus said, "whatsoever you ask for, believe it, and you will receive it." This sounds an awful lot like "name it and claim it!" But when viewed in light of the totality of Jesus' theology, in which he stated first of all that God's will is preeminent, it becomes clear that what Jesus meant was: "whatever you ask for *in the will of God* will be granted to you.

In other words, having been sent on a mission by God the Disciples could expect every need to be met in order to accomplish that mission. This was hardly "name it and claim it."

Many Prosperity Preachers are good people, and many of the things they asked for they received, because they were asking for things concerned with fulfilling their ministries. But they therefore got the wrong notion that everything they ask for that seemed godly *to them* they can receive in the same way. And when they didn't receive what they asked for, they just moved on, and ignored the failure of this doctrine.

James 4.What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2 You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. 3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures...
13 Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” 14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.” 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil. 17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

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i think every believer gathering for him or herself is in Antichrist spirituality, for Jesus shares everything He gets from The Father, even His Throne.
Revelation 3:21
" To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne."

A big 6 for believers who are only in it for themselves, and don't want Christ's salvation to be for everyone.

This is The Mind of Christ and of The Father and if we want to be in His Spirit should also be ours.

1 Timothy 2:3b-6a
".... God our Saviour, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people."

RandyPNW said:

Name It and Claim It. Where have Prosperity Preachers gone wrong? They have brought Christianity into disrepute by claiming things that are luxurious and over-the-top, making Christianity out to be a fraud, corrupt, greedy, and deceitful. When things "claimed" do not materialize, they simply move on to the next "claim." I could go into detail, but I won't, because my concern here is to correct--not to harm.

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Yeah man. I mean, everyone knows this. You're preaching to the choir

RandyPNW said:

In other words, having been sent on a mission by God the Disciples could expect every need to be met in order to accomplish that mission. This was hardly "name it and claim it."

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"Then Peter began to say to Him, 'See, we have left all and followed You.'
"So Jesus answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel’s, who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.'" (Mark 10:28-31)

I see how "a hundredfold" of "houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands" means a person who leaves one's own life for Jesus will receive many Jesus family people for loving. And this is so more and better than what certain people are naming and claiming, while merely seeking what is for their own selves and certain ones they favor and hope to use.

And one gets so blessed, not by claiming it in prayer, but by obeying Jesus.

RandyPNW said:

Name It and Claim It. Where have Prosperity Preachers gone wrong? They have brought Christianity into disrepute by claiming things that are luxurious and over-the-top, making Christianity out to be a fraud, corrupt, greedy, and deceitful. When things "claimed" do not materialize, they simply move on to the next "claim." I could go into detail, but I won't, because my concern here is to correct--not to harm.

When Jesus said, "whatsoever you ask for, believe it, and you will receive it." This sounds an awful lot like "name it and claim it!" But when viewed in light of the totality of Jesus' theology, in which he stated first of all that God's will is preeminent, it becomes clear that what Jesus meant was: "whatever you ask for *in the will of God* will be granted to you.

In other words, having been sent on a mission by God the Disciples could expect every need to be met in order to accomplish that mission. This was hardly "name it and claim it."

Many Prosperity Preachers are good people, and many of the things they asked for they received, because they were asking for things concerned with fulfilling their ministries. But they therefore got the wrong notion that everything they ask for that seemed godly *to them* they can receive in the same way. And when they didn't receive what they asked for, they just moved on, and ignored the failure of this doctrine.

James 4.What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2 You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. 3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures...
13 Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” 14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.” 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil. 17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

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We were warned that we would become merchandise for the wolves.
Blessings.

RandyPNW said:

When things "claimed" do not materialize, they simply move on to the next "claim." I could go into detail, but I won't, because my concern here is to correct--not to harm.

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Well, I named and claimed an ice cream cone, once. And then I walked about a block to where I knew an ice cream store was. And I was congratulating myself, how I had prayed "in the name of Jesus."

But the second scoop was half falling off of the bottom scoop, and it came to me, something like, "You did not specify in your claiming, that the scoop on top would stay up." And I had to lick the top one pretty quick, so it did not slide off.

So, there is the issue of if we are going to enjoy what we claim!!

Yes, God "gives us richly all things to enjoy" > in 1 Timothy 6:17. Enjoying is included in true Christian prosperity. The quality of the enjoying . . . matters so much more than the quantity of what you have

Now I have my sweetie who is kind and personal with various people, and who helps people and her church. And she never gives up on me. She is shorter than I am . . . maybe we are poetically like how one scoop of that ice cream cone was lower than the other scoop > I see now how God's real answer to that claiming of ice cream might have been us two with each other, with one head higher than the other but sweet and creamy and dreamy together.

I keep enjoying discovering how God answers prayers with better than what I might be considering while praying. It is so good, that He does not limit Himself to me and my ability to now understand and see what we are trusting Him to do.

And I have needed years . . . decades . . . of preparation so I can even get started in sharing with her. And now there continues to be plenty of correction . . . into love's perfection, I would offer.

And one kiss in God's love with her does more for me, than a billion universes of gold and silver and platinum and all their coal turned into diamonds could, and more than all the worldly women of all eternity could give me for pleasure even if they all perfectly cooperated with me and had all eternity to try to satisfy me the way one kiss in God's love does.

Because God's love has Heaven's quality of pleasant rest with personal and tender intimacy. But lust and greed can spoil whatsoever they have you get, as they keep you weak so you can suffer deep personality and emotional trouble while you keep seeking what greed and lust dictate, in desperation for pleasure to try make those nasty feelings of lust and greed and boredom and loneliness go away. But in worldly stuff, enough is never enough.

But one kiss in God's love can not miss

RandyPNW said:

Name It and Claim It. Where have Prosperity Preachers gone wrong? They have brought Christianity into disrepute by claiming things that are luxurious and over-the-top, making Christianity out to be a fraud, corrupt, greedy, and deceitful. When things "claimed" do not materialize, they simply move on to the next "claim." I could go into detail, but I won't, because my concern here is to correct--not to harm.

When Jesus said, "whatsoever you ask for, believe it, and you will receive it." This sounds an awful lot like "name it and claim it!" But when viewed in light of the totality of Jesus' theology, in which he stated first of all that God's will is preeminent, it becomes clear that what Jesus meant was: "whatever you ask for *in the will of God* will be granted to you.

In other words, having been sent on a mission by God the Disciples could expect every need to be met in order to accomplish that mission. This was hardly "name it and claim it."

Many Prosperity Preachers are good people, and many of the things they asked for they received, because they were asking for things concerned with fulfilling their ministries. But they therefore got the wrong notion that everything they ask for that seemed godly *to them* they can receive in the same way. And when they didn't receive what they asked for, they just moved on, and ignored the failure of this doctrine.

James 4.What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2 You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. 3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures...
13 Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” 14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.” 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil. 17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

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Thank you for your post.. I don't know just who your talking about. All the faith preachers I know will tell you there is no such thing as prosperity gospel and many many years ago it did get out of hand but.. that is not how its preached today. Why believers keep saying that.. does not make them look good but bad Its faith.. you have not because you ask not or your asking wrong. Gods word always works never fails. He said what ever you desire when you pray believe you receive it you shall have it. Just that verse we can see how it could get twisted yet what ever you ask the Father in JESUS name He will do it. OT delight your self in the lord and He will give you the desires of your heart.

See when we ask do we doubt? If we do were like a ship tossed back and forth so let not that man/woman think they will get anything from God. When we pray and we know He hears us we know we have the petitions/prayers we asked for. Because we asked according to His will. Whats Gods will you ask? HIS WORD! You pray you ask for things that go inline like with word.. OH MAN... haha I LOVE LOVE LOVE Music.. guess what song is playing right now!

Danny Gokey "STAND IN FAITH" oh praise you FATHER! WOW wow.. this one surprised me.. like wait.. that song. "Stand in faith walk by faith live by faith. I believe I believe! Nothings impossible nothings impossible."

I do not agree with everything they teach but they have a truth much of the Church does not see. Its as if each group has something.. when we ALL come together ONE BODY! Christ is the head. So if IF they are wrong I wills speak words of life and pray for them...as I would want someone to do for me if I am wrong. And I don't know the heart and the heart can be 100% different then what we see. Its ALWAYS about others.. this is why that word ALWAYS WORKS!

The so-called prosperity gospel is merely an extreme expression of a more deeply rooted problem in much of the modern Western Church.

That problem's name is Theologia Gloriae: "Theology of Glory".

The Theology of Glory is a theology that focuses on the invisible qualities of God--His power, wisdom, sovereignty, etc--and chooses therefore to look at God through the lens of His holiness, His commandments, etc. And, worse, it imagines the Christian life as a life of law-keeping for the sake of glory--either present glory in this life, or future glory in the next.

We can see what the fruit of this theology looks like,

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to Me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and cast out demons in Your name, and do many mighty works in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.'" - Matthew 7:21-23

Pay attention to the passage, notice what those saying "Lord, Lord" are saying, "Did we not prophesy" "Did we not cast out demons?" "Did we not do mighty works?"

Such will stand before the Lord on the Day of Judgment and plead their case on the basis of their "glory". They will try to stand upon their works, all their spiritual accomplishments, all the glorious things they did--and they did in Jesus' name--but it will mean nothing on that Day. Those things mean nothing.

All of our works, all of our glory, all of our attempts and striving for glory in both this life and the next mean nothing.

Jesus doesn't want prophets and miracle-workers and deliverance ministries. He wants faithful disciples who hear and believe His word, and love their neighbor. Because good works that actually matter are not works of glory, but works of humility and charity. Such good works matter not because we find glory in them, but because our neighbor actually benefits from them.

I do not carry my cross as a disciple because in so doing I shall be rewarded handsomely with celestial swag in the Age to Come, because I'll get a fancier "mansion", or receive some crown or that whatever. I carry my cross as a disciple of Jesus Christ because Jesus Christ is Jesus Christ, and He calls me to lay my life down, set aside myself, carry a cross, and love my neighbor.

The faithful servant does not say, "Master, I have done the bare minimum of what is expected of me, praise me and give me a share of your inheritance". The bare minimum is doing what Jesus, our Lord and Master and King, commands. But we don't even do that. The WHOLE Law of God is summed up in the simple command: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Galatians 5:14), but we don't even do that. So the Law stands against us condemning us in our sin.

So if we cannot even attain the barest minimum of faithfulness through our own efforts, then who do we think we are to think that on the Day when Christ comes to judge the living and the dead and deliver all things over to the Father that we can demand our justification on the basis of doing all these big, great, super spiritual things for God? We cannot, and on the basis of our works on that Day the King will say, "I never knew you".

The natural man hungers for glory--the glory of power, the glory of wealth, the glory of fame, the glory of human praise, the glory of being at the top, the glory of success, the glory of spiritual accomplishment, the glory of moral living, the glory of good works.

And because the natural man hungers for glory, he wants to find God in glory. Which always results in futility. As the Apostle says in Romans chapter 1, God's power and wisdom are displayed in creation, but this did not lead men to worship the Creator God, but rather led them to idolatry.

We see this even in the story of the Exodus, for when Moses went up to the mountain to speak with God, the people came to Aaron asking him to melt down gold into a golden calf that they may worship it.

The truth is that no one would ever really want to meet God in His glory, because it is a "terrifying thing to fall in the hands of the Living God" (Hebrews 10:31), and what does God say even to Moses? "No one may see Me and live." (Exodus 23:30). Indeed, even when God merely speaks from the mountain the people are TERRIFIED, begging Moses to act as the go-between them and God.

Do not underestimate God. He is GOD.

But that isn't how God desires to be known, in fact, we can't know God through glory. We can only know God through His Son, made flesh of the Virgin Mary and born of her; the meek and lowly Son of Man who comes not to be served, but rather to serve and give His life as a ransom.

How do we know God? "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father" To know the Son, incarnate and visible, is to know the Father. Because the Father will only be known through His Son, and the Son became man and dwelt among us, and He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried. He rose on the third day, ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of the Father, and will return on the Last Day as judge of the living and the dead--and there shall be kingdom without end.

We therefore know God in the suffering, lowliness, and humility of Jesus Christ who lived, loved, suffered, and died.

We have therefore seen the visible image of the invisible God. We have therefore seen Him who is the radiance of the Father's glory and the express image of the Father's Hypostasis. We see the Father's "face" in His Son, who became flesh and blood and bone; and whose flesh was pierced and blood was shed.

It is therefore the Theology of the Cross that is to be the way of God's people. The Theology of Glory--in all of its myriad permutations--must be rejected.

The Theology of Glory always produces despair, pride, and faithlessness.
The Theology of the Cross always produces faith, hope, and love.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

I carry my cross as a disciple of Jesus Christ because Jesus Christ is Jesus Christ, and He calls me to lay my life down, set aside myself, carry a cross, and love my neighbor.

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ViaCrucis said:

How do we know God? "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father" To know the Son, incarnate and visible, is to know the Father.

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"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

This is included in carrying our cross, I would say. And in loving like Jesus, we know Him by sharing in how He is loving and kind and caring and compassionate.

So, then, do we name and claim this, that God will have us loving like Jesus was loving, on the cross?

com7fy8 said:

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

This is included in carrying our cross, I would say. And in loving like Jesus, we know Him by sharing in how He is loving and kind and caring and compassionate.

So, then, do we name and claim this, that God will have us loving like Jesus was loving, on the cross?

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I think it just means that we are supposed to do this, be like this. Not "name it and claim it", just do it--love other people.

-CryptoLutheran

RandyPNW said:

But in the recent US presidential elections I believe Copeland went out on a limb. And I never heard whether he apologized for getting it wrong. And this is the kind of thing that disturbs me, when Christian leaders "claim" things, it doesn't happen, and they just move on without apology. Please correct me if I'm wrong?

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I think a lot of people have begun to notice this… after a while, you have to either completely tune out the prophecies, or just entirely move on from the preacher. Or the entire movement.

RandyPNW said:

Thanks Anna. We need to be free to speak our mind without being thought of as "haters" or "criticizers." The NT Scriptures were all about Paul speaking his mind on the most difficult of issues.

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Yes, he certainly didn’t mince words! I hear you. It’s important to call a spade a spade; and if someone is prophesying over and over, and none of it is coming to pass, that’s significant, and needs to be mentioned.

Discussion is what the people did at the time of the flood and all died, an discussion is what you all do again and why will there be a different outcome..



Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Blab it and grab it.

MMXX said:

Blab it and grab it.

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Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

prophecy_uk said:

Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

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I don't think that verse is talking about materialism fyi