Biden job approval re direction of the country. 29%

RocksInMyHead

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This kinda just illustrates my point.
I'm not calling you names. You're basically asking me to take what you've said on faith. Since you've given me no reason to believe that you're an expert on infectious diseases or immunology, that's not something that I'm going to do, which is why I asked for a source. Your refusal to do so despite saying that you had one gives me the impression that you don't have a lot of faith in it, which makes me less likely to believe you.

I'll pm a link later when I have time, I've got ministry stuff to focus on right now.
Appreciate it.
 
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topher694

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I'm not calling you names. You're basically asking me to take what you've said on faith. Since you've given me no reason to believe that you're an expert on infectious diseases or immunology, that's not something that I'm going to do, which is why I asked for a source. Your refusal to do so despite saying that you had one gives me the impression that you don't have a lot of faith in it, which makes me less likely to believe you.
Hence the word "kinda".
 
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Tiberius Lee

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I didn't vote for Trump, I voted against abortion, trans-activism, the LGB, feminism and CRT. Anyone that voted for Biden has become his accomplice. The news was very fond of informing us Trump polarized the nation. But I got news for them, I wasn't polarized by Trump, I was polarized by abortion laws, the LGB having the power to brainwash our children while our God was removed from school, by the destruction of families, and the steady removal of liberty in the name of alleged safety. By the onslaught of social justice, which isn't justice at all but a perversion of it...


I don’t need to vote against or for “abortion, trans-activism, the LGB, feminism and CRT”, because none of these issue “remove God” from my heart. I worship a Living God who is careless about CRT or feminism or LGBTQ or trans-activism. The God I worship is so graceful that His GRACE wash away any sins..

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
 
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Freth

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Regarding the OP:

My approval rating of Biden is 0%. It's the only statistic I care about.​

Regarding the vaccine:

The pandemic is the new (current) Satan and the vaccine the new (current) savior. This has been a repeating pattern in recent history.
  • Where do these patterns come from? The powers that be, the media.
  • Where do we learn everything we know about the pandemic and the vaccines? The powers that be, the media.
Oh but that's just a conspiracy theory. :D

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

There is irrational desperation, and fear, surrounding the need for all to be vaccinated; instilled by liars that can't be trusted (the powers that be, the media), but somehow get a pass. Satan rules this world, the father of lies. Pardon me if I'm a tad bit skeptical when it comes to my personal health.

It's okay if you disagree, but I see it from a different perspective, and yes, I choose to remain unvaccinated.​
 
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pitabread

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And natural immunity means nothing then?

Bit of a side note, but I find the anti-vaxx crowd only seems to talk in terms of death versus natural immunity. As though there isn't any other potential consequences to getting infected and surviving COVID-19.

This sort of black and white thinking is not conducive to understanding what COVID-19 actually does.
 
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rambot

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Regarding the OP:

My approval rating of Biden is 0%. It's the only statistic I care about.​

Regarding the vaccine:

The pandemic is the new (current) Satan and the vaccine the new (current) savior. This has been a repeating pattern in recent history.
  • Where do these patterns come from? The powers that be, the media.
  • Where do we learn everything we know about the pandemic and the vaccines? The powers that be, the media.
Oh but that's just a conspiracy theory. :D

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

There is irrational desperation, and fear, surrounding the need for all to be vaccinated; instilled by liars that can't be trusted (the powers that be, the media), but somehow get a pass. Satan rules this world, the father of lies. Pardon me if I'm a tad bit skeptical when it comes to my personal health.

It's okay if you disagree, but I see it from a different perspective, and yes, I choose to remain unvaccinated.​
I'd wager Jesus here would be refering more to things that create battles of his holy greatness and his goodness with those evil forces taking you away from HIM.

A physical illness and the medicine that makes us healthy are not a reasonable metaphor to tie to this.

Jesus healed lepers and blind people. Lepers were castaways from society because of their sickness. And he healed them.
 
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Tiberius Lee

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back to the topic, biden's approval rating is tanking.

Are we sure we can trust the poll? I think something fishy going on .. most likely poll caller calling some undocumented immigrant, who shouldn’t vote and asking who do they support. Or may be the cell phone undocumented using is “Made in Mexico” and when they say “ I support Biden” , it change the word and sound like “ disapprove” .. we don’t know .. we are not sure ..... and you want to be sure right .. lets investigate!
 
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RocksInMyHead

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back to the topic, biden's approval rating is tanking.
It's definitely down, but I'm not sure I'd call it "tanking". That implies a large, rapid decline, which isn't what we see.

Biden has one of the smallest variances in approval rating over the same period - the difference between his highest approval and his lowest approval is 11% (about the same as Trump actually - just shifted up). You have to go back to Nixon to get a smaller variance. So the decline in his approval rating is not large. And it's been in steady decline for about two and a half months (since August). So the decline in Biden's approval rating hasn't been rapid either. As a point of comparison, Clinton dropped 22 points in less than a month during his first year. Now that was tanking.
 
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BeyondET

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It's definitely down, but I'm not sure I'd call it "tanking". That implies a large, rapid decline, which isn't what we see.

Biden has one of the smallest variances in approval rating over the same period - the difference between his highest approval and his lowest approval is 11% (about the same as Trump actually - just shifted up). You have to go back to Nixon to get a smaller variance. So the decline in his approval rating is not large. And it's been in steady decline for about two and a half months (since August). So the decline in Biden's approval rating hasn't been rapid either. As a point of comparison, Clinton dropped 22 points in less than a month during his first year. Now that was tanking.
I know you don't want to see it tanking, but it's a sinking tanker
 
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Are we sure we can trust the poll? I think something fishy going on .. most likely poll caller calling some undocumented immigrant, who shouldn’t vote and asking who do they support. Or may be the cell phone undocumented using is “Made in Mexico” and when they say “ I support Biden” , it change the word and sound like “ disapprove” .. we don’t know .. we are not sure ..... and you want to be sure right .. lets investigate!

Yes you can, and no on the investigation
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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And natural immunity means nothing then?
Not really. With even the flu. I kept getting it every year. It was taking a toll on my body. And I'm not old. My parents were getting the flu shots every year. And wasn't getting flu's at all. Lesson learned , I get flu shots now. No regrets. Just think about small pox , polio and other dangerous diseases that aren't around. Because of vaccinations. My mom was a baby when she got encephalitis, there were no measles vaccinations. If they were maybe she wouldn't have got brain swelling. She hasn't had the best life because of that.
 
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topher694

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Not really. With even the flu. I kept getting it every year. It was taking a toll on my body. And I'm not old. My parents were getting the flu shots every year. And wasn't getting flu's at all. Lesson learned , I get flu shots now. No regrets. Just think about small pox , polio and other dangerous diseases that aren't around. Because of vaccinations. My mom was a baby when she got encephalitis, there were no measles vaccinations. If they were maybe she wouldn't have got brain swelling. She hasn't had the best life because of that.
So you considered you health, history and the effectiveness of the shot and made the decision you thought was best for you? I bet you didn't even mock or belittle people who made different decisions.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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QUOTE="topher694, post: 76293625, member: 416795"]So you considered you health, history and the effectiveness of the shot and made the decision you thought was best for you? I bet you didn't even mock or belittle people who made different decisions.[/QUOTE] Its the best decision for at least 90 percent of the population. A don't get me with the mocking nonsense. I've been harassed by my Trump supporting family member To the point I don't talk to them about politics. I believe they are brainwashed and a lot of people on the right to be brain washed. And most Conservative think the same about the people, that social distance, wear a mask and vaccinate. And people on the left. But this pandemic wont end until 80 plus percent are vaccinated .
 
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QUOTE="topher694, post: 76293625, member: 416795"]So you considered you health, history and the effectiveness of the shot and made the decision you thought was best for you? I bet you didn't even mock or belittle people who made different decisions.
Its the best decision for at least 90 percent of the population. A don't get me with the mocking nonsense. I've been harassed by my Trump supporting family member To the point I don't talk to them about politics. I believe they are brainwashed and a lot of people on the right to be brain washed. And most Conservative think the same about the people, that social distance, wear a mask and vaccinate. And people on the left. But this pandemic wont end until 80 plus percent are vaccinated .[/QUOTE]
\
it wont end at 80 percent it will be around for a long time.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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it wont end at 80 percent it will be around for a long time.
If we had better leader ship , from the beginning, less people would be dead. We've had plenty of warning. Before it came here. In CA , all 13 year old's and up had an opportunity to be vaccinated. Unless medically compromised. The reason people aren't vaccinated is because their parents or grown up choose not too. So we should stay away from unvaccinated people.
 
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BeyondET

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If we had better leader ship , from the beginning, less people would be dead. We've had plenty of warning. Before it came here. In CA , all 13 year old's and up had an opportunity to be vaccinated. Unless medically compromised. The reason people aren't vaccinated is because their parents or grown up choose not too. So we should stay away from unvaccinated people.

The only country reported without a single case is North Korea, and I doubt that info every country was going to get it the virus is fully airborn and has been that way from the beginning. Basically can catch it from anybody rather vaccinated or not, I am vaccinated and I have no problem hanging out with unvaccinated people. they dont avoid with me. I don't plan on getting a booster forget that I'm done.
 
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topher694

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It does matter, but at the same time, there's a wholly legitimate reason for people to be angry at the anti-vax crowd, and past a certain point, there's nothing you can do to fix willful ignorance.


I have.

Which might explain why I can't find it. You said you could link it right now, so please do.

That said, the content that's being filtered is mostly junk science, opinions, and results taken out of context or being misinterpreted by laypersons. If the study that you're referencing is actually being filtered, then it most likely has issues.


The only scenario in which this is true - for any vaccine - is for someone for which the vaccine will cause harm, whether due to an adverse/allergic reaction or a weakened immune system. In those cases, the ideal situation is to not get sick at all. It's not that post-infection immunity is better for them - it's just that the vaccine is actively harmful, so they don't really have a choice.

Even in a case where post-infection antibody counts are higher than post-vaccination antibody counts, you still have to get sick and risk death/complications from the disease in question in order to gain that immunity.
I got busy there for awhile, but I've decided to post a couple links publicly after all. Primarily because, while you notice both talk about the power of natural immunity, the doctor in link 1 is still recommending the vaccine to those who don't have it and don't have natural immunity, so he's clearly not anti-vax. And link 2 has good information on a large study but also mentions things the study doesn't consider - including something I believe you mentioned - it "doesn’t take into account what this virus does to the body to get to that point" plus it seems to find that natural immunity plus one dose of vaccine creates the best protection.

My point all along is that critical thinking vs a one-size-fits-all approach is what has been missing in this discussion and I believe both of these links example that well.

link 1
link 2
 
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RocksInMyHead

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I got busy there for awhile, but I've decided to post a couple links publicly after all. Primarily because, while you notice both talk about the power of natural immunity, the doctor in link 1 is still recommending the vaccine to those who don't have it and don't have natural immunity, so he's clearly not anti-vax. And link 2 has good information on a large study but also mentions things the study doesn't consider - including something I believe you mentioned - it "doesn’t take into account what this virus does to the body to get to that point" plus it seems to find that natural immunity plus one dose of vaccine creates the best protection.

My point all along is that critical thinking vs a one-size-fits-all approach is what has been missing in this discussion and I believe both of these links example that well.

link 1
link 2
Thanks for posting those links. Though I will point out that the only supporting reference that the doctor in your first link gives for his position is the study in your second link.

Regarding that Israeli study, the biggest issue with it from a scientific perspective is the sample size. The study reports a 13-fold increase in infection for vaccinated vs. previously infected, but the real numbers are 238 infections in the vaccinated sample of ~16,000 and 19 in the previously infected sample of about the same size. Those numbers are small enough that I'd say they remain within margin of error. Even if we assume that the numbers are entirely accurate, the risk of a breakthrough infection is very low in either case, and reporting it as a 13-fold increase sensationalizes the data. To put things in perspective, per the data from the study, the risk of a breakthrough infection when vaccinated is about the same as the risk of dying if you contract COVID.

Furthermore, as you said, the study also reports increased protection for those who have been both infected and vaccinated, meaning that there is potentially a benefit to getting the vaccine even if you have already had COVID (again, small sample size makes it difficult to draw major conclusions).

Again, from what you've said, you and your family have a valid reason to not get the vaccine due to potentially fatal allergic reactions, and anyone attacking you for that is an idiot. But, aside from similar cases where the vaccine poses a real, known risk to the patient, there does not seem to be any medical/scientific justification to avoid it. In case of limited supply, it would seem that we could prioritize those who haven't been infected, but that's not really an issue here in the US. And getting infected voluntarily is a very bad idea due to the risks associated with the disease. Assuming that you don't already have a known allergy, your risk of dying from contracting COVID - while low - is still much, much, much higher than it is from the vaccine. And that's before getting into the much more common long-term impacts (Long COVID), or even the short-term impacts of being sick for two weeks or more.

Critical thinking is important, and is unfortunately, something that's becoming less common in our society. However, I'm not really seeing how any of this makes a case for not getting vaccinated. It does suggest that if you've been infected and can't get vaccinated for whatever reason, you're at least as safe, if not safer than, had you just been vaccinated without getting sick. But given the recorded benefits of being both previously infected and vaccinated as well as the well-documented (by this point) safety of the vaccine, there's no reason not to get it outside of a shortage or a previously-known allergy.

ETA: here's a pretty good analysis of the issue, including a discussion of the Israeli study - https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/natural-immunity-covid-19/
 
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