Why are we not following the science on the leading cause of preventable death?

Belk · Oct 6, 2021

98cwitr said:
Sure it is, but it's also the individual choice to completely throw liberty in the trash too. Anyone is free enough to condemn their own freedom and rights, as well as hold to personal and individual convictions that others' rights and liberties should be tramped on as well.

Never before America (that I am aware of) was the concept of "inalienable rights" enshrined in lawful documents; albeit one could loosely go all the way back to 1215 to the magna carta to make a case, but it's a loose case at best.

Ninja by Arcangl86

98cwitr · Oct 6, 2021

Belk said:
Ninja by Arcangl86

Am I too old to get this reference?

Akita Suggagaki · Oct 6, 2021

hislegacy said:
Where is the health mandate forbidding tobacco?

Are we just being selective on what science to follow?

Most hospitals ban smoking on their campuses. And most other places ban it indoors.

Belk · Oct 6, 2021

98cwitr said:
Am I too old to get this reference?

I think we are close in age but maybe you did not see the same cheesy 80s movies I saw.

Vylo · Oct 6, 2021

98cwitr said:
Sure it is, but it's also the individual choice to completely throw liberty in the trash too. Anyone is free enough to condemn their own freedom and rights, as well as hold to personal and individual convictions that others' rights and liberties should be tramped on as well.

Never before America (that I am aware of) was the concept of "inalienable rights" enshrined in lawful documents; albeit one could loosely go all the way back to 1215 to the magna carta to make a case, but it's a loose case at best.

Sure, if you ignore ancient Greece, ancient rome, both Christian and Islamic scripture, and Ireland.

Mayzoo · Oct 6, 2021

renniks said:
Are people getting fired for smoking? Even if they do it outside it can still affect others after all, not to mention thier kids.

Yes. IMO, if their smoking status is known prior to being hired, they will definitely have a reduced likelihood of being hired.

renniks · Oct 6, 2021

Mayzoo said:
Yes. IMO, if their smoking status is known prior to being hired, they will definitely have a reduced likelihood of being hired.

I don't see this as justified in most jobs.
It's odd that employers have all kinds of restrictions about not discriminating in hiring, but can decide to not hire because you have a few cigars.
But at any rate, deciding that you have to have a drug to be hired is just the opposite and even more strange.

Mayzoo · Oct 6, 2021

renniks said:
I don't see this as justified in most jobs.
It's odd that employers have all kinds of restrictions about not discriminating in hiring, but can decide to not hire because you have a few cigars.
But at any rate, deciding that you have to have a drug to be hired is just the opposite and even more strange.

Not discriminating is related only to protected classes. Have you applied for a job lately?

You have to reveal a lot of information just to apply now, much of which is not optional. You can finagle your way out of some questions; however, if you answer "I prefer not to answer", I imagine many employers view you as uncooperative right off the cuff, so no interview.

1. Gender
2. Age
3. Race
4. Smoker or non (not as often, but still a question on many)
5 Whether you have used any government programs in the last 6 months (welfare, food stamps etc)
6. Whether you have collected unemployment in the last 6 months
7. Do you have any disabilities....not disabilities that will affect your ability to do the job, ANY disabilities.

And those are just a few of the ones I remember. I have not had to look for a while, but 2 decades ago, it was illegal to ask these. Now it is a requirement to answer them, even if your answer is I do not care to answer.

Discrimination is perfectly legal unless you can prove someone is discriminating based on a protected class.

98cwitr · Oct 6, 2021

Vylo said:
Sure, if you ignore ancient Greece, ancient rome, both Christian and Islamic scripture, and Ireland.

Their rights, if I recall, were granted to them by their governments, not God. However, Greece and Rome did view their government in subjugation to their gods.

I am willing to be educated, and considering I've read the Bible and Qu'ran, and find them to be suggestive, but not explicitly and clearly stated that man possesses inalienable and natural rights given by God without the medium of governmental decree or blessing. Mosaic Law came down from God, and we saw in Christ's time how severely the governing bodies had skewed what was written. We see the same when contrasting the Constitution with the actions of our own government. This is why democracy is legitimately being threatened. I'm not speaking in hyperbole or conjecture.

DaisyDay · Oct 6, 2021

98cwitr said:
Belk said:

Ninja by Arcangl86

Click to expand...

Am I too old to get this reference?

Ninjas are super-stealthy assassins, so what Belk is saying is that Arcangl86 slipped in and posted Belk's point before he could - aka "beat him to it".

ArmenianJohn · Oct 6, 2021

98cwitr said:
Sure it is, but it's also the individual choice to completely throw liberty in the trash too. Anyone is free enough to condemn their own freedom and rights, as well as hold to personal and individual convictions that others' rights and liberties should be tramped on as well.

You're completely wrong. People do not have the liberty to choose what to put into their bodies, it is mandated by law what you can or can't put into your body. There is no liberty without responsibility. Our law does not prevent complete and unfettered liberty.

98cwitr said:
Never before America (that I am aware of) was the concept of "inalienable rights" enshrined in lawful documents; albeit one could loosely go all the way back to 1215 to the magna carta to make a case, but it's a loose case at best.

The concept of "inalienable rights" came from the "Father of Liberalism", John Locke. It is not a Christian belief but rather a term from Americanism. But even the founding fathers who claimed to espouse it didn't really believe it - it was just meaningless talk.

Regardless of lip service to "inalienable rights", the law is the law and government is government and they come over the top of their own claims of "inalienable rights" (and have done so from the beginning). The law/government does not permit you unfettered freedom and it never has. Your talk about "personal freedom" is a romanticized and mythical notion.

ArmenianJohn · Oct 7, 2021

renniks said:
So, we need someone to tell us what to eat and drink, now?

And inject. Yes, we always have had that, not just "now".

Vylo · Oct 7, 2021

98cwitr said:
Their rights, if I recall, were granted to them by their governments, not God. However, Greece and Rome did view their government in subjugation to their gods.

I am willing to be educated, and considering I've read the Bible and Qu'ran, and find them to be suggestive, but not explicitly and clearly stated that man possesses inalienable and natural rights given by God without the medium of governmental decree or blessing. Mosaic Law came down from God, and we saw in Christ's time how severely the governing bodies had skewed what was written. We see the same when contrasting the Constitution with the actions of our own government. This is why democracy is legitimately being threatened. I'm not speaking in hyperbole or conjecture.

Galatians 5:1 would be an example from the bible. Paul also rights about natural law in Romans.

Zorostrians had the belief that they had the innate right to rise up against wicked leaders.

There are quite a few examples scattered throughout history and religion.

Velaut · Oct 7, 2021

hislegacy said:
Where is the health mandate forbidding tobacco?

Are we just being selective on what science to follow?

Would you support that? Wouldn't you protest if smoking becomes forbidden anywhere including in your home?
Or is this just another way to attack covid related mandates?

renniks · Oct 7, 2021

ArmenianJohn said:
And inject. Yes, we always have had that, not just "now".

Really? Because I've made my own choices about what to eat, drink and what meds to take ever since becoming an adult.

Tiberius Lee · Oct 7, 2021

hislegacy said:
Fast Facts

Smoking leads to disease and disability and harms nearly every organ of the body.1

More than 16 million Americans are living with a disease caused by smoking.

For every person who dies because of smoking, at least 30 people live with a serious smoking-related illness.

Smoking causes cancer, heart disease, stroke, lung diseases, diabetes, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), which includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis.

Smoking also increases risk for tuberculosis, certain eye diseases, and problems of the immune system, including rheumatoid arthritis.

Smoking is a known cause of erectile dysfunction in males.

Smoking is the leading cause of preventable death.

Worldwide, tobacco use causes more than 7 million deaths per year.2 If the pattern of smoking all over the globe doesn’t change, more than 8 million people a year will die from diseases related to tobacco use by 2030.3

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.1

On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.4

If smoking continues at the current rate among U.S. youth, 5.6 million of today’s Americans younger than 18 years of age are expected to die prematurely from a smoking-related illness. This represents about one in every 13 Americans aged 17 years or younger who are alive today.1

Where is the health mandate forbidding tobacco?

Are we just being selective on what science to follow?

Biden administration is weak, he can’t even speak an entire sentence without WH staffer tell him what to say, so I don’t expect him to do any thing about it. I am fine with it, I will forgive any thing of him because he defeated Trump! Mission Accomplished! Biden can sleep and go to beach rest of his term, I am ok with him. Biden just needs to wake up again in case Trump wants to run in 2024.

You have all the facts here and very compiling. I am just wondering why the pro-life congress which was elected in 2017 or the pro-life administration which was in WH in 2017 didn’t ban smoking? Do you know why?

Tiberius Lee · Oct 7, 2021

GoldenBoy89 said:
You’re missing the point that there are restrictions (mandates, if you will) against smoking in certain places and restrictions on who can buy cigarettes and how and on who can sell them and fines and penalties for selling to minors or people without ID (sorta like a tobacco passport, if you will). These ‘mandates’ have likely prevented countless deaths and extended millions of lives.

My friend if you think people are missing the point then I have a bridge to sell. They are not missing any point. The point of the entire discussion, as you know very well to attack those of us who support vaccine mandate. Absolutely nothing to do with logic!

Belk · Oct 7, 2021

renniks said:
Really? Because I've made my own choices about what to eat, drink and what meds to take ever since becoming an adult.

Cool. So go out to the store and buy some peyote. Or you can swing by the police station and ask them where to pick up some black tar heroin. Maybe travel to another country and let them know you have no vaccinations. You have always been proscribed, you just accept it as the norm.

renniks · Oct 7, 2021

Belk said:
Cool. So go out to the store and buy some peyote. Or you can swing by the police station and ask them were to pick up some black tar heroin. Maybe travel to another country and let them know you have no vaccinations. You have always been proscribed, you just accept it as the norm.

Lol, moving the goalposts to illegal drugs?
Again, I've chosen to avoid those. Others choose to take them regardless of the rules.

Belk · Oct 7, 2021

renniks said:
Lol, moving the goalposts to illegal drugs?
Again, I've chosen to avoid those. Others choose to take them regardless of the rules.

Why are we not following the science on the leading cause of preventable death?

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