Why Are the Most Vaccinated Nations Also the Most Infected?

SkyWriting · Oct 4, 2021

Original Happy Camper said:
experimental vaccine does not prevent you from getting or dying from the virus

I question your source of information.
It does both. "Experimental" just means it's not yet approved for general distribution.
Based on evidence from clinical trials in people 16 years and older, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...on evidence from,of being previously infected.

Original Happy Camper · Oct 5, 2021

SkyWriting said:
I question your source of information.
It does both. "Experimental" just means it's not yet approved for general distribution.
Based on evidence from clinical trials in people 16 years and older, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Pfizer-BioNTech.html#:~:text=• Based on evidence from,of being previously infected.

follow the money

The Barbarian · Oct 5, 2021

Original Happy Camper said:
follow the money

You betcha.

Fraudulent Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Products
Warning Letters
Additional COVID-19 related warning letters can be found on the Agency's Warning Letters webpage.

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08/19/2021 Mahita, LLC dba PushMyCart “Patanjali Coronil Kit,” “Dr. Reckeweg Arsenic Album Dilution 30 CH,” “SBL Arsenicum Album Dilution 30 CH,” “Kerala Ayurveda Balarishtam,” and “Kottakkal Balarishtam" *

08/10/2021 Secret of the Islands Salt scrub products *

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07/28/2021 Dr. Thomas Polucki Upper Cervical Chiropractic, Inc. Nitric Oxide Support and Melatonin products

07/26/2021 Vivera Pharmaceuticals, Inc. “COVxRDA Saliva Antigen Test” and a “COVx-RDA Nasal Antigen Test”

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Fraudulent COVID-19 Products

California medspa doctor charged with fraud after claiming hydroxychloroquine “cures” Covid-19
A Southern California doctor is facing federal fraud charges after he allegedly told patients that the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine was a “magic bullet” that “cures” Covid-19.

Dr. Jennings Ryan Staley, 44, is the medical director of the Skinny Beach medical spa in San Diego, which normally offers services such as lip fillers, botox, and fat transfers. When the coronavirus pandemic broke out, the spa appears to have been transformed into a service selling patients coronavirus packages including hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, the other part of the controversial coronavirus drug cocktail, as well as vitamin C and zinc for nearly $4,000. The packets also allegedly included “anti-anxiety treatments,” according to the FBI.

“Complimentary COVID-19 Consultation & New Services Now Available – COVID-19 telemedicine consultations, testing, and treatment now available at home,” advertised a post on Facebook dated April 2.
California medspa doctor charged with fraud after claiming hydroxychloroquine “cures” Covid-19

Televangelist Jim Bakker to pay $156K for false COVID-19 cure claims
https://nypost.com/2021/06/24/televangelist-jim-bakker-to-pay-156k-for-false-covid-19-cure-claims/

No end to the quacks who will exploit the fears of ignorant people.

Ligurian · Oct 5, 2021

The Barbarian said:
I'm just having some fun debunking the stories you guys tell each other. The funny thing is, a disasterously-debunked fake like that graphene story would normally bring down the whole cult.

But for the hard-core believers, it just convinces them that the conspiracy is bigger than they thought.

Et Violà!

Ligurian · Oct 5, 2021

Original Happy Camper said:
follow the money

Exactly.

"Dirty Laundry"
by Don Henley

You don't really need to find out
What's going on
You don't really want to know
Just how far it's gone
Just leave well enough alone
Eat your dirty laundry

We can do the innuendo
We can dance and sing
When it's said and done
We haven't told you a thing
_________________________
Years ago, I was convinced that the media is the False Prophet.
But MSM is more like the Idol that talks for the Beast...
so, the man behind the curtain is the False Prophet.
Therefore,
some things get published... some things don't.
But only the barbarian wins wars... and so,
they're writing their history, not ours.

We don't have to believe any of it.

alertandawake · Oct 5, 2021

What is disturbing me the most is that we are seeing on such a massive scale, a separation of the vaxx (conformers) from the anti-vaxx (non-conformers). Why is this so? This has to be leading up to a much bigger event. This sounds like another form of "conditioning" in my opinion.

It just seems to me the anti-vaxx are going to be like the lepers of the past, cut off from society.

Depending where one lives, many will have this attitude "just get the damn shot" so we can get our freedoms, but the thing is, they not really freedoms, just less restrictions.

But this is the world we live in today, depending where one lives, as soon as someone sneezes, we go into lockdown (yes I know this is exaggerating, but I just use this example to illustrate where we are headed)

The Barbarian · Oct 5, 2021

Ligurian said:
Years ago, I was convinced that the media is the False Prophet.

That's what every would-be dictator tries to sell to us. The first step to taking your freedom requires taking down the news media. Always happens.

Jamdoc · Oct 5, 2021

SkyWriting said:
I question your source of information.
It does both. "Experimental" just means it's not yet approved for general distribution.
Based on evidence from clinical trials in people 16 years and older, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Pfizer-BioNTech.html#:~:text=• Based on evidence from,of being previously infected.

Pre delta studies are basically junk now that the alpha strain isn't really encountered anymore.

Comparison of two highly-effective mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 during periods of Alpha and Delta variant prevalence

In July, vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization has remained high (mRNA-1273: 81%, 95% CI: 33-96.3%; BNT162b2: 75%, 95% CI: 24-93.9%), but effectiveness against infection was lower for both vaccines (mRNA-1273: 76%, 95% CI: 58-87%; BNT162b2: 42%, 95% CI: 13-62%), with a more pronounced reduction for BNT162b2.

The BNT162b2 vaccine is the Pfizer, which was shown to be only 42% effective at stopping infection.

Mind you of course, the media has shifted goal posts from effectiveness against Infection, to effectiveness in preventing hospitalization.
Which to a layman, might still seem like that's good.
But to an epidemiologist? That's not so good, because they'd know that it's not helping get to herd immunity and is creating a reservoir of asymptomatic carriers that don't seek medical treatment so we have no idea how many there are.

It's effectiveness against infection that's meaningful when it comes to ending the pandemic.

The Barbarian · Oct 5, 2021

Jamdoc said:
The BNT162b2 vaccine is the Pfizer, which was shown to be only 42% effective at stopping infection.

But it's super effective against serious illness. Which is the major point. And now, it's clear that the Pfizer vaccine, with a booster, is even better.

Jamdoc said:
Mind you of course, the media has shifted goal posts from effectiveness against Infection, to effectiveness in preventing hospitalization.

You're too concerned about the media, and not enough about the effectiveness of the vaccine. BTW, the literature was almost entirely based on preventing serious illness.

Jamdoc said:
Which to a layman, might still seem like that's good.

I have a degree in microbiology, did graduate work in immunology, and ran an immunology clinic for the Air Force. The effectiveness of the vaccine sounds pretty good to me. Do you consider yourself a layman? If not, what did you do to qualify as knowledgeable? Tell us about it.

You see, even now that the basic two jabs are about 53%$ effective against infection, it's a major step in protecting those who are not immunized as well.
Effectiveness of Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna Vaccines in...

But one should get the booster to bring it up higher. You might argue that those who aren't willing to get the immunization shouldn't complain if they get sick. But that compromises others as well, so we shouldn't think of it that way.

Jamdoc · Oct 5, 2021

The Barbarian said:
But it's super effective against serious illness. Which is the major point. And now, it's clear that the Pfizer vaccine, with a booster, is even better.

You're too concerned about the media, and not enough about the effectiveness of the vaccine. BTW, the literature was almost entirely based on preventing serious illness.

I have a degree in microbiology, did graduate work in immunology, and ran an immunology clinic for the Air Force. The effectiveness of the vaccine sounds pretty good to me. Do you consider yourself a layman? If not, what did you do to qualify as knowledgeable? Tell us about it.

You see, even now that the basic two jabs are about 53%$ effective against infection, it's a major step in protecting those who are not immunized as well.
Effectiveness of Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna Vaccines in...

But one should get the booster to bring it up higher. You might argue that those who aren't willing to get the immunization shouldn't complain if they get sick. But that compromises others as well, so we shouldn't think of it that way.

I also have a degree in microbiology
mitigating symptoms is useless for ending a pandemic, it's neutralizing infection that is meaningful.

SkyWriting · Oct 5, 2021

Jamdoc said:
Pre delta studies are basically junk now that the alpha strain isn't really encountered anymore.

Your linked research says nothing like that.

Jamdoc · Oct 5, 2021

SkyWriting said:
Your linked research says nothing like that.

prevaling strain is delta.
which the pfizer shot is less effective at preventing infection for.

SkyWriting · Oct 5, 2021

Jamdoc said:
prevaling strain is delta.
which the pfizer shot is less effective at preventing infection for.

I'd say the difference is almost within a statistical margin of error.
(mRNA-1273: 81%, 95% CI: 33-96.3%; BNT162b2: 75%, 95% CI: 24-93.9%)
vs (mRNA-1273: 76%, 95% CI: 58-87%; BNT162b2: 42%, 95% CI: 13-62%)

Going out in public without a free vaccine?

Jamdoc · Oct 6, 2021

SkyWriting said:
I'd say the difference is almost within a statistical margin of error.
(mRNA-1273: 81%, 95% CI: 33-96.3%; BNT162b2: 75%, 95% CI: 24-93.9%)
vs (mRNA-1273: 76%, 95% CI: 58-87%; BNT162b2: 42%, 95% CI: 13-62%)

Going out in public without a free vaccine?

over 90% vs 42% is pretty significant decrease.

The Barbarian · Oct 6, 2021

Jamdoc said:
I also have a degree in microbiology
mitigating symptoms is useless for ending a pandemic, it's neutralizing infection that is meaningful.

But you don't know much about epidemiology if you don't realize that cutting infections in half would go a long way in stopping an epidemic.

This is why vaccinations are so important. Learn more about the way epidemics work here:
http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~regina/research/notes123.pdf

Jamdoc · Oct 6, 2021

The Barbarian said:
But you don't know much about epidemiology if you don't realize that cutting infections in half would go a long way in stopping an epidemic.

This is why vaccinations are so important.

I don't trust that it's enough.
The spike protein is shown to be prone to mutation.
Protein N is far more conserved from strain to strain, and is the antibody providing protection from infection from those naturally immune.
I see the vaccine as beginning to lose effectiveness at neutralizing the virus.
That means putting all our bets on it is a bad idea. Doubling down on it is a bad idea. It'll be even less effective against future strains.

How can you be a microbiologist and think putting all your eggs in one basket on one single protein was a good idea. It should have been obvious that the immunity would not be redundant or robust enough to hold up.

The Barbarian · Oct 6, 2021

Jamdoc said:
I don't trust that it's enough.

No one said it would be. In an epidemic like this, vaccinations rarely suffice. Hence, the states with mask mandates and other controls are doing much better than states that don't have them.

Jamdoc said:
The spike protein is shown to be prone to mutation

And yet, the mRNA vaccines are still highly effective at protecting people from serious illness, and greatly reduce the likelihood of infection in vaccinated individuals.

This is why almost all people in ICUs with COVID infections are unvaccinated. Did you not realize why?

Jamdoc said:
I see the vaccine as beginning to lose effectiveness at neutralizing the virus.

It will likely be the way it is with influenza vaccines. Tuned to the variants each year.

Jamdoc said:
That means putting all our bets on it is a bad idea.

So Gov. Ron discovered in Florida. He killed tens of thousands of people because he put all his bets on vaccines/antibodies. Remember when they said that mask mandates would also be important? They were right. Unless you can vaccinate a very high percentage of people, vaccinations alone won't do it.

Jamdoc said:
How can you be a microbiologist and think putting all your eggs in one basket on one single protein was a good idea.

This is why it seems so odd that you're claiming to be a microbiologist. All these things I'm pointing out to you, seem to have been a complete mystery for you. You actually thought that scientists were "putting all of their eggs in one basket?"

Seriously?

The Barbarian · Oct 6, 2021

SkyWriting said:
Your linked research says nothing like that.

It doesn't. But I can see why someone who didn't know much about it, might assume it did. You only have to cruise Facebook to see many people making the same error.

The Barbarian · Oct 6, 2021

The Barbarian said:
It doesn't. But I can see why someone who didn't know much about it, might assume it did.

It's no surprise that the effective roll-out of vaccines managed to bring down infection rates in every state that didn't abandon other measures. Even Florida and Texas are now seeing the effects of these vaccines:

Florida COVID: 3,636,318 Cases and 55,622 Deaths - Worldometer
Texas COVID: 4,104,428 Cases and 66,749 Deaths - Worldometer

Jamdoc · Oct 6, 2021

The Barbarian said:
No one said it would be. In an epidemic like this, vaccinations rarely suffice. Hence, the states with mask mandates and other controls are doing much better than states that don't have them.

And yet, the mRNA vaccines are still highly effective at protecting people from serious illness, and greatly reduce the likelihood of infection in vaccinated individuals.

This is why almost all people in ICUs with COVID infections are unvaccinated. Did you not realize why?

It will likely be the way it is with influenza vaccines. Tuned to the variants each year.

So Gov. Ron discovered in Florida. He killed tens of thousands of people because he put all his bets on vaccines/antibodies. Remember when they said that mask mandates would also be important? They were right. Unless you can vaccinate a very high percentage of people, vaccinations alone won't do it.

This is why it seems so odd that you're claiming to be a microbiologist. All these things I'm pointing out to you, seem to have been a complete mystery for you. You actually thought that scientists were "putting all of their eggs in one basket?"

Seriously?

Yeah, seriously
every single covid 19 vaccine has been for a single protein, rather than multiple proteins as virtually every other vaccine has been. Even acellular protein vaccines choose a handful of antigens to immunize against.

This one they went for the most obvious target.... and ... nothing else.

and why I stress over this is.. the solution is.. more jabs of the same 3 vaccines
rather than developing gen 2 of vaccines that are more redundant.

Even the ones like novavax and sanofi, they're still focusing on the alpha strain protein S. None of the vaccines currently available or even slated to come out target more than 1 protein.

Why Are the Most Vaccinated Nations Also the Most Infected?

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