So should banks be illegal?

I'm not so much sure if banks should be illegal, of if we just don't become bankers.

Michael Collum said:

Was curious since while listening to scripture today in the law it was said that interest should not be charged with loans. So the discussion topic is, should banks be illegal?

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Usury should be illegal, whatever happens as fallout happens. It's truly an evil thing.

To know if a thing is usury or not ZippyCatholic made this simple test:

1) Is profitable interest charged on the loan?
2) Has the borrower posted collateral providing security on the loan? (Note: a corporation or partnership counts as collateral).
3) Is the lender’s recourse for recovery of principal and interest, in a case of default, limited to the named collateral and only the named collateral?

"If all three of these are true, it is not usury. If (1) is true and either (2) or (3) are false, it is usury."

As is clear, not all interest or loans are usury, but a very specific type.

The answer to your question is definitely YES.

And we must treat our slaves, especially Hebrew slaves, properly as well:
Exodus 21
21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.

Continuing in Exodus 21, we have been given clear instructions regarding the sale of our daughters:

7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her.

Keep in mind though, women cannot sell their daughters.

These things are part of the law, but there are many more.
The question is: Do we only choose which ones we wish to follow and which we will disregard?

.Jeremiah. said:

The answer to your question is definitely YES.

And we must treat our slaves, especially Hebrew slaves, properly as well:
Exodus 21
21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.

Continuing in Exodus 21, we have been given clear instructions regarding the sale of our daughters:

7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her.

Keep in mind though, women cannot sell their daughters.

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Are you speaking as if doing these civil Laws is wrong or are you praising the Law such as in Psalm 18 and 118 (19 and 119 in Hebrew)? From Psalm 18:

The law of the Lord is unspotted, converting souls: the testimony of the Lord is faithful, giving wisdom to little ones. The justices of the Lord are right, rejoicing hearts: the commandment of the Lord is lightsome, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is holy, enduring for ever and ever: the judgments of the Lord are true, justified in themselves. More to be desired than gold and many precious stones: and sweeter than honey and the honeycomb. For thy servant keepeth them, and in keeping them there is a great reward.

Abaxvahl said:

Are you speaking as if doing these civil Laws is wrong or are you praising the Law such as in Psalm 18 and 118 (19 and 119 in Hebrew)? From Psalm 18:

The law of the Lord is unspotted, converting souls: the testimony of the Lord is faithful, giving wisdom to little ones. The justices of the Lord are right, rejoicing hearts: the commandment of the Lord is lightsome, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is holy, enduring for ever and ever: the judgments of the Lord are true, justified in themselves. More to be desired than gold and many precious stones: and sweeter than honey and the honeycomb. For thy servant keepeth them, and in keeping them there is a great reward.

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I don’t know how to answer your question online.
But I will tell you what I believe:
Every single word of the Bible is correct and perfect. (As originally written, I am aware of biblical errors, which have no relevance, imo)
Because every single word is the word of God.
Just because I may not understand much of what is written, does not diminish this belief in the slightest.

I hope this helps.

Michael Collum said:

Was curious since while listening to scripture today in the law it was said that interest should not be charged with loans. So the discussion topic is, should banks be illegal?

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A rule specific to a theocracy - and apparently not used by Joseph in Egypt outside of theocracy.

A rule about not demanding interest from those unable to repay - which even today is not done in he form of a loan, but rather a write-off.

Ex 22:25 “If you lend money to My people, to the poor among you, you are not to act as a creditor to him; you shall not charge him interest.

This rule appears to have 3 qualifiers
1. A Loan under the Theocracy
2. A loan to the poor who could not well afford to repay certainly not with interest
3. A loan to a fellow Israelite

An interesting topic - but not something that would lead us to ignore one of the TEN Commandments such as "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7

Michael Collum said:

Was curious since while listening to scripture today in the law it was said that interest should not be charged with loans. So the discussion topic is, should banks be illegal?

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Great thread idea!

I don't think banks should be abolished in our society, but
I think the general principles of laws about interest are good to keep in mind.
(For example, don't be greedy.)

A similar law, the Year of jubilee, is an amazing idea. Every 50 years, all debts are canceled and all land returns to the original families.

But a country living that way would need special divine protection, imo. It would be impossible to fund a modern military while at the same time being careful about interest and incorporating the principles of the Year of Jubilee.

Michael Collum said:

That is an interesting reasoning, where did Zippy Catholic get the idea from?

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Researching the position of the Church throughout the ages, since economic systems and such have changed one has to "follow the line" from the Scripture to our era to see the consistent meaning. Here is his Usury FAQ, an amazing resource on it. I have no idea what would happen if this was applied in our current society since it is everywhere (IIRC student loans, many mortgages, etc, are usurious), but may righteousness prevail.

Also note: the exceptive clause in Deuteronomy is related to the conquest of Canaan. Usury is a kind of theft, and you can't really steal from what is yours.

Michael Collum said:

Was curious since while listening to scripture today in the law it was said that interest should not be charged with loans. So the discussion topic is, should banks be illegal?

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Lets just say that loans from churches should be interest free.
That's a good start.

We can glean much from the laws given to Israel by God, but the fact is we are not under those laws. Banks are free to loan money and charge interest. The borrower has to agree to the terms and is free to turn down the agreement.

I personally would not charge my family or friends interest.