The fate of Satan, the beast and his demons mirror each other

Douggg · Oct 5, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
I am trying to get you both to address the Op.

The opening post does not explain the messianic age of Isaiah 11:6-9, Isaiah 65:19-25. The verses cannot be in the New Heaven, New Earth, because there is still death. And cannot apply to this present age.

Isiaah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

Timtofly · Oct 5, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Where did he indicate that? Show me. He has said many times that he DOES see Revelation 20 as a recap, as do all Amils, so why would you ask him this question?

Why do you ask ridiculous questions like this? Do you actually think it's possible that he would say "Yes, I see it as some foreign addition to God's Word"?

Do you just get a kick out of saying ridiculous things? Is that what it is?

And here is yet another completely ridiculous question from you. Do you actually think he might say "Yes, I have proof that this chapter is a new doctrine that is illegitimate to God's Word"?

Yes, Justin Martyr was a premil and he said there were many Christians who believed differently from him on that. So, what is your point here?

sovereigngrace said:
It is because there is nowhere in Scripture that teaches what you attribute to Revelation 20. It is literally a new biblical doctrine 3 chapters before you get to the end of the Bible that is alien to the whole OT and the whole NT. That is because (in my opinion) it is a private interpretation that carries zero corroboration. Your failure to support every single tenet of Premil with other Scripture (for years) is testimony to that fact. Amils build their position on corroboration. That is the BIG difference in hermeneutics. Premil is all over the place.

How can a chapter in God's Word be an inserted private interpretation?

sovereigngrace · Oct 5, 2021

Timtofly said:
How can a chapter in God's Word be an inserted private interpretation?

I am talking about your opinion of that chapter. You create a future age that is unknown to the rest of Scripture. That is mistaken!

Timtofly · Oct 5, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
I am talking about your opinion of that chapter. You create a future age that is unknown to the rest of Scripture. That is mistaken!

I have created nothing. John wrote it down, and those verses have been in God's Word for centuries.

On the other hand, the theory of recapitulation is a man made opinion. That there cannot be a millennial reign is a man made opinion. That you fight so hard against God's Word is your own opinion.

Satan was bound at Armageddon. There is nothing you can prove from Scripture, to change that fact. Claiming a chapter break does not cut it. If you think that Satan cannot be bound for the following 1000 years after Armageddon, you can prove that only after the events of Armageddon. Making a prophetic gamble now is just that, a prophetic guess. Armageddon is still future, and the defeat of Satan at Armageddon is still future. That is what John wrote, despite any attempts to post your own opinion on the topic.

sovereigngrace · Oct 5, 2021

Timtofly said:
I have created nothing. John wrote it down, and those verses have been in God's Word for centuries.

On the other hand, the theory of recapitulation is a man made opinion. That there cannot be a millennial reign is a man made opinion. That you fight so hard against God's Word is your own opinion.

Satan was bound at Armageddon. There is nothing you can prove from Scripture, to change that fact. Claiming a chapter break does not cut it. If you think that Satan cannot be bound for the following 1000 years after Armageddon, you can prove that only after the events of Armageddon. Making a prophetic gamble now is just that, a prophetic guess. Armageddon is still future, and the defeat of Satan at Armageddon is still future. That is what John wrote, despite any attempts to post your own opinion on the topic.

Just because you keep stating something as a fact does not mean it is fact. The Scriptures override your opinions.

Timtofly · Oct 5, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Just because you keep stating something as fact does not mean it is fact. The Scriptures override your opinions.

If I state facts, how are those facts my opinions separate from the facts? Your opinions are against the facts I have stated. In your opinion, is Satan at Armageddon or not? I have no opinion on the subject. I have just stated the facts. Obviously you would not have called them facts. You do not even point out these facts yourself. What facts am I stating that are not facts? Is it a fact that Revelation in most Bibles is broken down into chapters and verses? Do you have a copy that is not? Can you prove chapter and verse settings are inspired by God? Constantly avoiding these facts, is not making for a great conversation.

sovereigngrace · Oct 5, 2021

Douggg said:
The opening post does not explain the messianic age of Isaiah 11:6-9, Isaiah 65:19-25. The verses cannot be in the New Heaven, New Earth, because there is still death. And cannot apply to this present age.

Isiaah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

If you would just let Scripture interprets Scripture then it will help you understand different Old Testament passages. The best way to understand Old Testament prophecy and interpret it in a correct manner is studying the New Testament. You impose meanings and an age upon this that does not exist. There is no mention of this so-called millennium that you promote. Isaiah 11 refers to the Gospel going out to the Gentiles during the intra-Advent period. Isaiah 65 refers to the eternal state that arrives when Jesus comes.

These OT passages symbolically depicts the peace that Christ has introduced through the new covenant and which will be literally realized in the new heavens and new earth. The one thing it does not speak of is some supposed sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted future millennial kingdom.

Paul draws several of the Old Testament prophecies relating to the removing of the global deception upon the Gentiles (ethnos) together in Romans 15:8-12 and shows how this began with the life, death and resurrection of Christ and the subsequent evangelism of the early Church. Significantly, Isaiah 11 is one of them. He declares, “Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written (in 1 Samuel 22:50), For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. And again he saith (in Psalm 18:49), Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. And again (in Deuteronomy 32:43),Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. And again (in Isaiah 11:10), Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.”

Isaiah clearly relates to this current age.

Douggg · Oct 5, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Isaiah 11 refers to the Gospel going out to the Gentiles during the intra-Advent period.

Isiaah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

What is the "intra-Advent period"? Where are you finding that term in the bible?

When does the "intra-Advent period" begin? How long does it last?

sovereigngrace said:
Isaiah 65 refers to the eternal state that arrives when Jesus comes.

What? There is going to be no death after the great white throne judgement, into eternity.

Isaiah 65:20 indicates death is present. So Isaiah 65 is not the eternal state.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Spiritual Jew · Oct 5, 2021

Timtofly said:
Because the chapter choices do not prove a thing. They are not inspired by God. There is a two chapter parenthetical explanation about the parties involved in this battle, 17 and 18. Chapter 19 was cut off too soon, obviously to show a false recap, but fails if one places the defeat of Satan at the battle. What happens to Satan is the first part of chapter 20. Chapter 20 should start with a resurrection, not the last scene from the battle of Armageddon.

The one who put Satan into chapter 20, felt that his being in the pit, for a thousand years went more with that subject, than his defeat at Armageddon. Reading the text should solve this alledged dilemma, not lead to further erroneous conclusions, that John was indicating Satan was bound in the first century. There is no break in thought. Satan was defeated and bound at Armageddon but was not thrown into the Lake of Fire immediately, along with the FP and the beast.

You did a great job here of completely avoiding the point I was making in my post. Well done.

Spiritual Jew · Oct 5, 2021

Douggg said:
What? There is going to be no death after the great white throne judgement, into eternity.

Isaiah 65:20 indicates death is present. So Isaiah 65 is not the eternal state.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

How does your understanding of that verse line up with what it says in the preceding verse?

Isaiah 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

So, no one would cry when someone died during that time? No one would cry when they experienced severe pain?

No more weeping or crying? That seems familiar.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Doug, Isaiah 65:17 establishes the fact that Isaiah was referring to the new heavens and new earth in Isaiah 65:17-25. He didn't reference the new heavens and new earth in verse 17 and then immediately change the subject.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

You need to acknowledge that and find a way to reconcile the Isaiah 65:17-25 passage with Revelation 21:1-4 instead of thinking that Isaiah 65:18-25 is speaking of something else besides the new heavens and new earth.

The way to reconcile the passages from Isaiah and Revelation is easy and doesn't require anything like thinking that Isaiah brought up the new heavens and new earth in one verse only to inexplicably completely change the subject in the next verse.

Isaiah wrote at a time when eternity was never discussed and wasn't something people thought about. The way to eternal life obviously had not come yet since that would not come until Jesus died and rose again. So, Isaiah wrote about the new heavens and new earth in such a way that his readers could understand at the time. A 100 year old child? That's clearly figurative language. John had no such limitations with his audience, so he spelled it out that there will be no more death at that time.

sovereigngrace · Oct 5, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
How does your understanding of that verse line up with what it says in the preceding verse?

Isaiah 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

So, no one would cry when someone died during that time? No one would cry when they experienced severe pain?

No more weeping or crying? That seems familiar.

Don't expect a direct response from a Premil to this. I have been waiting one for 21 years.

sovereigngrace · Oct 5, 2021

Douggg said:
What? There is going to be no death after the great white throne judgement, into eternity.

Isaiah 65:20 indicates death is present. So Isaiah 65 is not the eternal state.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Not so! I have repeatedly showed Premils that the original text in Isaiah 65 proves there is no dying and crying in the new heavens and new earth. But you reject that. Premils have to do that in order to sustain their faulty position. You continued avoidance of the issues is testimony to the error of the Premil position.

Revelation 20 refers to the here-and-now, and correlates with multiple climactic passages in the rest of the scared text. There is no mention of some sin-cursed re-run of our age in Isaiah 65. You know that! You have zero grounds to claim anything in Isaiah 65 to support Premil.

The only way your position can be sustained is continually avoiding the rebuttals and queries that forbid your position.

Please address the evidence:

לֹא־יִֽהְיֶ֨ה מִשָּׁ֜ם עֹ֗וד ע֤וּל יָמִים֙ וְזָקֵ֔ן אֲשֶׁ֥ר
Lo'- yihªyeh mishaam `owd `uwl yaamiym wªzaaqeen 'ªsher
Not be hence more an infant [of] days, an old man after

לֹֽא־יְמַלֵּ֖א אֶת־יָמָ֑יו כִּ֣י הַנַּ֗עַר בֶּן־מֵאָ֤ה שָׁנָה֙ יָמ֔וּת
Lo'- yªmalee''et- yaamaayw Kiy hana`ar ben- mee'aah shaanaah yaamuwt
Not fulfill your days inasmuch a child old an hundred years die

What is this telling us?

The exact same thing, only in different terms.

This is called synonymous parallelism. It is telling us that a child will never become old on the new earth. This line reinforces what has just been said. It confirms the thought of the impending reality of no more death in the eternal state for the righteous. In eternity there will be no more aging or dying. It is not going to be like our corrupt age where infants eventually get old. It will not be like the here-and-now where a man could live to be an old person of a hundred years of age and then die.

This passage is actually saying the opposite to what many think. What this is saying is: there will be no more aging, curse or death on the new earth. Every glorified saints will have come to full maturity in Christ with their new perfect eternal bodies. It is the next line of Isaiah 65:20 that has confused many, because the translators have not interpreted it in a literal word-for-word sense. It is not saying there will be more babies, death and old men. It is saying the opposite to what they are alleging. It is saying that there will be no more aging: children getting old, old people and people dying! It is describing eternity to an Old Testament audience in terms they can grasp.

The new heavens and new earth will indeed be a glorious victorious perfect state where death is unknown. God is saying that the eternal state will actually be free of death for young and old alike. This passage is telling us that there will be no more death on the new earth! The Hebrew word Lo' (Strong’s 3808) means “no” or “not.” The word is a simple negation. The word is found twice in this much-debated new heavens and new earth verse.

Debate in Isaiah 65:20 centers in on the use of the original word yaamuw meaning “die” or “death.” What should we relate it to? Is there indeed “death” on the new earth? Also, should the death be related to the “child” in the second phrase or the “sinner” in the third phrase? What is more, in what way should it read? I must admit, if we are to read it in its most natural way it fits perfectly with the context. So why change it? I believe it should be applied to the “child” as it should agree with the first phrase that is simply a reinforcement of the same truth. It then fits perfectly with the whole overall teaching of the prophet on the perfection and bliss of the eternal state.

No (Lo') longer will an infant become like an old man,
No (Lo') longer will a child reach one hundred and die.

This is Old Testament verbiage that describes eternity to the Old Testament listener. It is telling us: no one is going to age! This relates to the new heaven and new earth not some supposed future millennium – that will never happen.

The original Hebrew does not give us any reason to attribute death to the “child” in this second line. In fact, it does not fit the whole context which is evidently speaking of the removal of aging and death on the new earth. Interpreting it as we have, seems to (1) match the original, (2) make sense to its context, and (3) taps into the thrust of what the prophet was trying to relay. We need to remind ourselves that the whole idea here is describing the incredible eternal deliverance from the curse of corruption and the joy that “the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind” on the “new earth.”

Spiritual Jew · Oct 5, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Don't expect a direct response from a Premil to this. I have been waiting one for 20 years.

Believe me, I'm not expecting that. But, I figured I'd try again, anyway. Maybe one of them will surprise us one of these years and actually address it directly instead of trying to skate around it.

Spiritual Jew · Oct 5, 2021

Timtofly said:
If I state facts, how are those facts my opinions separate from the facts? Your opinions are against the facts I have stated.

What facts have you stated? I only ever see opinions from you and you never back them up with scripture. Because of that, no one has any reason to believe anything you say.

DavidPT · Oct 5, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Don't expect a direct response from a Premil to this. I have been waiting one for 21 years.

You indicated that initially you were a Premil. When you were a Premil did you have an answer for that? How long were you a Premil before you switched to being an Amil? When you were a Premil was it only for a brief time or was it for a significant amount of time? If the latter that means you had plenty of time to have an answer for this while you were still a Premil.

How I might argue in return, and I have already argued in this manner except I don't think any Amils that responded to this argument even comprehended my argument. But I will try again.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Which comes first, chronologically speaking? This?----and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. Or this?---And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me.

The point being, the men that transgressed Him, they did this in the former earth not in the new earth. Yet, according to Isaiah 65:17, involving things pertaining to the former earth, we are told this--and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. If Isaiah 66:24 is meaning after Isaiah 65:17, how do you explain that, when things pertaining to the former earth will no longer be remembered, nor come into mind, and that Isaiah 66:24 is pertaining to what initially occurred in the former earth, and that they seem to be looking upon them during the NHNE, that according to Isaiah 66:22, thus things involving the former are still being remembered, and are still coming to mind even though Isaiah 65:17 indicates they are not supposed to be?

sovereigngrace · Oct 5, 2021

DavidPT said:
You indicated that initially you were a Premil. When you were a Premil did you have an answer for that? How long were you a Premil before you switched to being an Amil? When you were a Premil was it only for a brief time or was it for a significant amount of time? If the latter that means you had plenty of time to have an answer for this while you were still a Premil.

How I might argue in return, and I have already argued in this manner except I don't think any Amils that responded to this argument even comprehended my argument. But I will try again.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Which comes first, chronologically speaking? This?----and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. Or this?---And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me.

The point being, the men that transgressed Him, they did this in the former earth not in the new earth. Yet, according to Isaiah 65:17, involving things pertaining to the former earth, we are told this--and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. If Isaiah 66:24 is meaning after Isaiah 65:17, how do you explain that, when things pertaining to the former earth will no longer be remembered, nor come into mind, and that Isaiah 66:24 is pertaining to what initially occurred in the former earth, and that they seem to be looking upon them during the NHNE, that according to Isaiah 66:22, thus things involving the former are still being remembered, and are still coming to mind even though Isaiah 65:17 indicates they are not supposed to be?

I was a Premil until i was 34. I was brought up a Pastor's son. That is what I believed until I started to see many contradictions in every area of the doctrine. It quickly fell like a deck of cards. I had no answer for the problem above. This is only one of "a thousand" contradictions with the theory (LOL, excuse the pun).

Spiritual Jew · Oct 5, 2021

Douggg said:
The opening post does not explain the messianic age of Isaiah 11:6-9, Isaiah 65:19-25. The verses cannot be in the New Heaven, New Earth, because there is still death. And cannot apply to this present age.

Isiaah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

How convenient for you to not include Isaiah 11:10 which is quoted in the New Testament with a first coming and New Testament era context.

Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: 9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. 10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. 11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. 12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

And how convenient for you to not include the reference in Isaiah 65:17 to the new heavens and new earth which establishes the context of Isaiah 65:18-25. No wonder you take everything out of context.

Spiritual Jew · Oct 5, 2021

DavidPT said:
You indicated that initially you were a Premil. When you were a Premil did you have an answer for that?

You weren't talking to me, but I'd like to answer this if you don't mind. I did not have an answer for this when I was a Premil. So, because of that, I didn't try to use that passage to support Premil. Why any Premil does that is beyond me because no Premil has any convincing explanation for how it can possibly support Premil. Including you.

How I might argue in return, and I have already argued in this manner except I don't think any Amils that responded to this argument even comprehended my argument. But I will try again.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Which comes first, chronologically speaking? This?----and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. Or this?---And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me.

Neither. Believers will inherit the new earth while unbelievers will be cast into the lake of fire and that happens at generally the same time. Isaiah 66:24 is figurative language and should not be interpreted literally. We are not going to be literally looking upon the dead carcasses of people. It's figurative language to describe the fact that those who have transgressed against Him will be condemned forever. And we know from Revelation 20:15 that they will be in the lake of fire.

Ligurian · Oct 5, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
It shows us that Satan is now under Christ’s feet and is now subject to His Sovereign will. Satan and his minions are barred from heaven. They have been banished after they were defeated 2,000 years ago.

They were judged, but their sentence is not yet: it happens HERE:

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
Revelation 9:12 One woe is past; [and], behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Esaias 66:6 A voice of a cry from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord rendering recompence to his adversaries. 7 Before she that travailed brought forth, before the travail-pain came on, she escaped it and brought forth a male. 8 Who has heard such a thing? and who has seen after this manner? Has the earth travailed in one day? or has even a nation been born at once, that Sion has travailed, and brought forth her children?LXX
=
Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in Heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.3 And there appeared another wonder in Heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] His throne.
=
Revelation 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
=
Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father.

Michael fights the dragon, HERE:

Revelation 12:7-8 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
=
Daniel 12:1 And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.LXX
=
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The Great Tribulation happens when Satan is cast to Earth.

Ligurian · Oct 5, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
It is because there is nowhere in Scripture that teaches what you attribute to Revelation 20. It is literally a new biblical doctrine 3 chapters before you get to the end of the Bible that is alien to the whole OT and the whole NT. That is because (in my opinion) it is a private interpretation that carries zero corroboration. Your failure to support every single tenet of Premil with other Scripture (for years) is testimony to that fact. Amils build their position on corroboration. That is the BIG difference in hermeneutics. Premil is all over the place.

What exactly are you trying to say here? You think the millennium is added to Revelation? What if you're wrong? Revelation 22:18-19

The fate of Satan, the beast and his demons mirror each other

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Amillennialist

Amillennialist

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Amillennialist

Amillennialist

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Amillennialist

Amillennialist

Cro-Magnon

Cro-Magnon

Similar threads