Looks Like Maybe Ellen White Was Right!

ewq1938 said:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Sabbath was one of many things that were shadows of things to come which means they would be fulfilled and replaced with something much greater.

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Already addressed with a detailed scripture response in post # 18 linked and still awaiting a response from you. For your interest in the Greek of Colossians 2:16 the Greek word used here for sabbaths (σαββάτων; sabbaton) is genitive neuter plural which is why the majority of translations render Colossians 2:16 use of sabbaton as sabbaths or sabbath [days] that is in context to the annual Feasts. This is shown in greater detail in the linked post above, showing the old testament scriptures Paul is quoting from. Colossians 2:16 is in reference to the meat and drink offerings, the new Moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days that were prophetic shadows of things to come not Gods 4th commandment that is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken under the new covenant (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11).

According to the scriptures, it is impossible for Gods' 4th commandment which is also outside of the Feast days and independent of them to be a shadow of anything because it points backwards to the finished work of creation as a memorial of God as the creator of Heaven and earth (see Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:8-11). Gods 4th commandment does not point forwards to things to come because when the Sabbath was made there was no sin, no law, no plan of salvation given because there was no sin and no Mosiac shadow laws or annual Feast sabbaths because there was no sin and no plan of salvation given which hold the "shadow laws" of the old covenant which were only given after the fall of mankind.

You may want to consider what was posted to you earlier and that is there were many different kinds of sabbaths (plural) in the old covenant especially connected directly to the annual Feast days, the new moons, the meat and drink offerings that could fall on any day of the week outside of Gods 4th commandment that was simply every "seventh day" of the week as a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth. These annual Feast sabbaths (including holy convocations where no work was allowed) included; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36).

Colossians 2:16-17 is in reference to the meat and drink offerings the new moons and the annual sabbaths (plural) that were connected to the annual Feasts all of which were prophetic shadows of things to come pointing to Jesus as the promised Messiah. It is not a reference to Gods' 10 commandments or Gods 4th commandment that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11). Therefore it remains according to the scriptures for the people of God to keep the Sabbath (Hebrews 4:9).

Take Care.

ewq1938 said:

It6's not impossible. Paul wrote scripture and he said in plain wording that the Sabbath is a shadow of something to come. Do you disagree with Paul?
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Either Paul is right here or he is wrong here. Looking forward to an actual answer and not a dodge covered with huge paragraphs of things that do not answer the question I have asked.

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Paul is indeed correct. Perhaps there is another option as shown through the scriptures in post # 18 linked and post # 181 linked. I believe the scriptures provided in the linked posts above prove it is your interpretation of these scriptures that is not correct. All you have done is repeat yourself again without showing why you disagree and without addressing anything in the linked posts and their scriptures that prove why your interpretation of Colossians 2:16-17 is not biblical that already addresses what you have posted here the first time. Anyhow your welcome to address the scriptures in the linked posts above that prove why your interpretation of these scriptures is not correct. Also you do not have to if you do not want to. That is up to you but until you do all you have done is to ignore my posts and the scriptures provided in them that prove why your interpretation of Colossians 2:16-17 is not biblical so we will have to agree to disagree and remain friends.

Take Care.

MMXX said:

I'm very familiar with everything you're talking about. But I don't get what you're trying to say with it.

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Brother, God taught through manna for 40 years that keeping the Seventh day of the week as in Eden from morning to morning near the Promised Land is not entering His Sabbath "rest", which He taught them to enter in the Promised Land from evening to evening as Jesus kept the Sabbath, which is not a day of the week, but actually falls between two days of the week.


For 40 years with manna they did not keep the correct Sabbath near the Promised Land from evening to evening, while with manna they kept the seventh day of the week from morning to morning. Keeping the seventh day of the week with manna as in Eden for 40 years should have taught them that the Sabbath in the Promised Land is not the seventh day of the week as Judaism assumed under Joshua until Jesus calls us in Hebrews 3 and 4 to learn from them having kept the seventh day with manna what they failed to learn under Joshua, that the Sabbath in the Promised Land is not the seventh day of the week as it was in Eden.


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

MMXX said:

So in all of that you're simply saying the sabbath is to be kept from morning to morning instead of evening to evening?

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Brother, God's Sabbath "rest" with two examples recorded in the Bible where the Sabbath was initially kept by God in creation week from morning to morning and then by Jesus in the Promised Land from evening to evening shows that the Sabbath is kept in the Eden time zone. United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

ewq1938 said:

Paul wrote plainly so no interpretation is needed nor used by myself. He said the Sabbath is a shadow of something to come. No interpretation is needed there. Most of Christianity knows that the old Sabbath was a shadow and it would be fulfilled and replaced by a better, greater type of Sabbath and that is Christ's rest he gives to us. It is no longer just a day of the week where you don't work but everyday for ever.

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It seems Peter disagrees with you here in regards to Paul speaking plainly, when he writes...

2 Peter 3:15-16 [15], And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved BROTHER PAUL ALSO ACCORDING TO THE WISDOM GIVEN TO HIM HAS WRITTEN TO YOU; [16], AS ALSO IN ALL HIS LETTERS, SPEAKING IN THEM OF THESE THINGS; IN WHICH ARE SOME THINGS HARD TO BE UNDERSTOOD, WHICH THEY THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, TO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.

As posted earlier Paul does not say "the Sabbath". He says the sabbaths or sabbath days (plural) in the Greek that are connected to the meat and drink offering, the new moons and the Feast days. What is it in the the scriptures provided in post # 18 linked and post # 181 linked that show why your interpretation of Colossians 2:16-17 is not biblical that you disagree with and why? As posted earlier you do not have to continue the discussion if you do not want to or respond to my posts and scriptures that I believe prove why your interpretation of Colossians 2:16-17 is not biblical.

As shown in the linked posts above Colossians 2:16-17 is in reference to the prophetic laws in the meat and drink offerings the new moons and the annual sabbath feast days (plural) that were connected to the annual Feasts all of which were prophetic shadows of things to come pointing to Jesus as the promised Messiah. It is not a reference to Gods' 10 commandments or Gods 4th commandment that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11) which points backwards to the finished work of creation before sin and before law.

I suggest you take your time and and at least take a look at the scriptures provided in the linked posts above that disagree with you here. Of course you do not have to if you do not want to. I will leave that between you and God and we will agree to disagree.

Take Care.

ewq1938 said:

He didn't write "days" at all. That isn't in the Greek manuscripts. He said Sabbaths plural and there are multiple Sabbaths in a month, every Saturday.

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Well that is not true as posted earlier the context is to the meat and drink offerings, the new moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days. That were shadows of things to come. As posted earlier you can ignore the detail posted from the scriptures providing what Paul was quoting from in the old testament scriptures from post # 18 linked and post # 181 linked. You were also shown that in the Feast days which is the context of Colossians 2:16-17 that there were many different kinds of annual sabbaths that were only connected to the annual Feast days that could fall on any day of the week that included; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36).

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New Living Translation
So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Therefore, let no one judge you because of what you eat or drink or about the observance of annual holy days, New Moon Festivals, or weekly worship days.

International Standard Version
Therefore, let no one judge you in matters of food and drink or with respect to a festival, a New Moon, or Sabbath days.

NET Bible
Therefore do not let anyone judge you with respect to food or drink, or in the matter of a feast, new moon, or Sabbath days

King James Bible
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days

New King James Version
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

King James 2000 Bible
Let no man therefore judge you in food, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days

American King James Version
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days

A Faithful Version
Therefore, do not allow anyone to judge you in eating or in drinking, or with regard to a festival, or new moon, or the Sabbaths,

Darby Bible Translation
Let none therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in matter of feast, or new moon, or sabbaths

Webster's Bible Translation
Let no man therefore judge you in food, or in drink, or in respect of a holy-day, or or the new-moon, or of the sabbaths

Geneva Bible of 1587
Let no man therefore condemne you in meate and drinke, or in respect of an holy day, or of the newe moone, or of the Sabbath dayes,

Bishops' Bible of 1568
Let no man therfore iudge you in meate, or in drinke, or in part of an holyday, or of the newe moone, or of the Sabboth dayes

Coverdale Bible of 1535
Let no man therfore trouble youre consciences aboute meate or drynke, or for a pece of an holy daye, as the holy daye of ye newe Mone, or of the Sabbath dayes

Tyndale Bible of 1526
Let no ma therfore trouble youre conscieces aboute meate and drynke or for a pece of an holydaye as the holydaye of the newe mone or of the sabboth dayes

Literal Standard Version
Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a celebration, or of a new moon, or of Sabbaths

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore let no one judge you in regard to food, or in regard to drink, or in regard to a feast, or a New Moon, or Sabbaths

Young's Literal Translation
Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths

Smith's Literal Translation
Therefore let not any judge you in food, or in drink, or in turn of festival, or of the new moon, or of sabbaths

Literal Emphasis Translation
Therefore, let no one make a judgment- in food and in drink, or in part to a feast or a new moon or Sabbaths

Douay-Rheims Bible
Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths

Catholic Public Domain Version
Therefore, let no one judge you as concerns food or drink, or a particular feast day, or feast days of new moons, or of Sabbaths.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Let no man disturb you about food or about drink or in the distinctions of feasts and beginnings of months and Sabbaths

Anderson New Testament
Let no one judge you, therefore, in meat or in drink, or in respect to a feast, or the new moon, or sabbaths

Haweis New Testament
Let no man therefore judge you concerning what you eat, or what you drink, or the observance of a feast, or new moon, or the sabbaths

Mace New Testament
Let no man therefore condemn you for meats or drinks, or in respect of feasts, or new moons, or sabbaths

Worrell New Testament
Let no one, therefore, judge you in food, or in drink, or in respect of a feast, or a new moon, or sabbaths

Worsley New Testament
Let no one therefore judge you on account of meat, or drink, or in respect of a feast, or a new-moon, or sabbaths

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Colossians 2:16 σαββάτων, sabbatōn N-GNP

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According to the scriptures Colossians 2:16-17 is in reference to the meat and drink offerings the new moons and the annual sabbaths (plural) that were connected to the annual Feasts all of which were prophetic shadows of things to come pointing to Jesus as the promised Messiah. It is not a reference to Gods' 10 commandments or Gods 4th commandment that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11).

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Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Or of the Sabbath days - Greek, "of the Sabbaths." The word Sabbath in the Old Testament is applied not only to the seventh day, but to all the days of holy rest that were observed by the Hebrews, and particularly to the beginning and close of their great festivals. There is, doubtless, reference to those days in this place, since the word is used in the plural number, and the apostle does not refer particularly to the Sabbath properly so called. There is no evidence from this passage that he would teach that there was no obligation to observe any holy time, for there is not the slightest reason to believe that he meant to teach that one of the ten commandments had ceased to be binding on mankind. If he had used the word in the singular number - "the Sabbath," it would then, of course, have been clear that he meant to teach that that commandment had ceased to be binding, and that a Sabbath was no longer to be observed. But the use of the term in the plural number, and the connection, show that he had his eye on the great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals, as a part of their ceremonial and typical law, and not to the moral law, or the Ten Commandments.

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Context matters here and as has been proven above and more so in post # 18 linked and post # 181 linked that you refuse to respond to shows your disregarding it. Context is plural application of the annual sabbaths in the annual Feasts. Not Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments.

Hope this is helpful.

ewq1938 said:

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

sabbaton σάββατον Noun - Dative Plural Neuter

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

sabbaton σάββατον Noun - Dative Plural Neuter


The plural word is used as singular in Matthew 12:1 so it can be spoken of as singular in Col 2:16 as well. It really doesn't affect the text at all. That word is speaking of the Saturday Sabbath in both scriptures.

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Do you know the difference between Genitive Neuter Plural used in Colossians 2:16 application to sabbaths (see here linked) and Dative Plural Neuter you have taken from somewhere else? If so can you tell me the difference and how you believe this would supersede scripture context to the sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days? As shown in the linked above Colossians 2:16 is Genitive Neuter Plural application to sabbaton (translated as sabbaths or sabbath days).

BobRyan said:

BobRyan said: ↑
Miriam, Aaron and Moses are in the generation that died in the wilderness and they were all prophets of God.

And all the folks under 40.. But I was talking about those who did not go in that were of the generation AND were saved - and were Christian, and were examples in Heb 11 of following Christ, pursing righteousness by faith.

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Why did you skip the rest of my response on this that addressed such?

ewq1938 said:

Blueletterbible:

The dative case shows the relationship of an indirect object to a verb, often found inside a prepositional phrase.

The genitive case refers to the case used for a noun, pronoun, or adjective to show ownership.

Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Here is example of a Saturday Sabbath and it is Noun - Genitive Plural Neuter just as it is in Colossians 2:16. Even though it's plural, it does not means dayS but a single Sabbath day, a Saturday.

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While ignoring my posts here your only proving my posts and the scriptures already shared with you. Here let me explain why. The plural application to the sabbaths in the Feast days from Colossians 2:16 is also in the very scriptures your quoting from in Matthew 12:1 and Matthew 28:1 because both scriptures are referring to the annual Feast sabbaths (plural) or the High Sabbath *John 19:31 (a High Sabbath is when an annual Feast sabbath falls on the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment see Wiki here linked). When sabbaths is used as plural application in Matthew 12:1 and Matthew 28:1 these scriptures are proving what I have already shared with you in regards to the annual sabbaths in the Feast days showing that Colossians 2:16 is not a reference to Gods' 4th commandment but to all those annual sabbaths that are directly connected to the meat and the drink offerings, the new moons and the sabbaths in the annual Feast days.

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Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Matthew 12:1-8. The account contained in these verses is also recorded in Mark 2:23-28, and Luke 6:1-5. At that time - Luke Luk 6:1 fixes the time more particularly. He says that it was "the second Sabbath after the first." To understand this, it is proper to remark that the "Passover" was observed during the month "Abib," or Nisan, answering to the latter part of March and the first of April. The feast was held seven days, commencing on the fourteenth day of the month Exodus 12:1-28; Exodus 23:15, on the "second" day of the paschal week. The law required that a sheaf of "barley" should be offered up as the first-fruits of the harvest, Leviticus 23:10-11. From this day was reckoned seven weeks to the feast of "Pentecost" Leviticus 23:15-16, called also the feast of weeks Deuteronomy 16:10, and the feast of the harvest, Exodus 23:16. This second day in the feast of the Passover, or of unleavened bread, was the beginning, therefore, from which they reckoned toward the Pentecost. The Sabbath in the week following would be the "second Sabbath" after this first one in the reckoning, and this was doubtless the time mentioned when Christ went through the fields. It should be further mentioned, that in Judea the barley harvest commences about the beginning of May, and both that and the wheat harvest are over by the twentieth. Barley is in full ear in the beginning of April. There is no improbability, therefore, in this narrative on account of the season of the year. This feast was always held at Jerusalem.

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In Matthew 28:1 it says in the Greek and the English...

Matthew 28:1 (Literal Greek to English) After then [the] Sabbaths, N-GNP being dawn [the] first [day] of [the] week, N-GNP came Mary Magdalene the other Mary, to see the tomb.

Matthew 28:1 (Literal Greek) δὲ σαββάτων, N-GNP τῇ ἐπιφωσκούσῃ εἰς μίαν σαββάτων, N-GNP ἦλθεν Μαριὰμ ἡ Μαγδαληνὴ καὶ ἡ ἄλλη Μαρία θεωρῆσαι τὸν τάφον.

This Sabbath being a high Sabbath (John 19:31) had the seventh day sabbath of God's 4th commandment but also the first day of the Feast of Passover and unleavened bread which was also a sabbath where no work was allowed which fell on the same time and day as Gods '4th commandment. Hence scripture application here is to plural sabbaths (no work in the Greek). Second application to week is also σαββάτων which is also a meaning of the Greek word sabbaton. The first day of the week here also being the Feast of first fruits that Jesus rose from the dead in fulfillment of this shadow Feast.

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All you have provided here in the scriptures above are in support of what I have already been discussing with you in post # 18 linked and post # 181 linked supporting what I have been sharing with you already and that is the application of Colossians 2:16 is to the meat and the drink offerings and the new moons and the sabbaths in the annual Feast days that where all shadows of things to come. Not Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11.

Hope this is helpful.