Australia Police- Are They Out of Line?

Bradskii

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Yes, Australia is more paternalistic than a lot of other nations. It's getting worse as well. That's the downside of "we know what is best for you" socialism.

Just a heads-up for those not from down here...the last eight years have seen the Liberals (equivalent to Republicans) running the government. And for nearly 12 years of the previous 16 as well.

And I think it's safe to say that your average Aussie has a great deal of respect for the police, as Pete intimated.

We're a pretty laid back country. We respect our elected leaders up to a point but don't put them on pedestals. I think this video clip of our PM sums us up nicely. Where else would you get a guy telling the country's leader to get off his lawn? Just letting him know he's not to take liberties just because he's running the government. Quintessentially Australian...

 
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Aussie Pete

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Just a heads-up for those not from down here...the last eight years have seen the Liberals (equivalent to Republicans) running the government. And for nearly 12 years of the previous 16 as well.

And I think it's safe to say that your average Aussie has a great deal of respect for the police, as Pete intimated.

We're a pretty laid back country. We respect our elected leaders up to a point but don't put them on pedestals. I think this video clip of our PM sums us up nicely. Where else would you get a guy telling the country's leader to get off his lawn? Just letting him know he's not to take liberties just because he's running the government. Quintessentially Australian...

And further to the complaints about heavy handed policing, a cop has been charged with using excessive force during an arrest. There are plenty of countries where it would not have raised an eyebrow.
 
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JustSomeBloke

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As I mentioned in another thread, some of what the Australian police are doing can only really be described as gratuitous assault, violence, and brutality. Why are they doing it? I'd guess it's because some of them are thugs, and they enjoy attacking people, knowing that those people won't be able to fight back. Also, people will be unlikely to report instances of police assault, violence and brutality, because they may be arrested for being part of an 'illegal protest'*, and because there is a high likelihood of crimes committed by police being swept under the carpet.

* Protest in free, open, democratic societies is never illegal.

Here is the example of gratuitous police assault, violence and brutality I previously posted in another thread:

Horrific moment policemen shove woman to the ground and pepper spray her face as she lay hurt on the road - as protest over lockdown erupted into violence on the streets of Melbourne

48092759-10005641-image-a-62_1632028347010.jpg



I think it's also time for a repeat of this C.S Lewis quote, because it simply can't be said too many times:

quote-of-all-tyrannies-a-tyranny-sincerely-exercised-for-the-good-of-its-victims-may-be-the-most-c-s-lewis-284427.jpg
 
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Aussie Pete

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As I mentioned in another thread, some of what the Australian police are doing can only really be described as gratuitous assault, violence, and brutality. Why are they doing it? I'd guess it's because some of them are thugs, and they enjoy attacking people, knowing that those people won't be able to fight back. Also, people will be unlikely to report instances of police assault, violence and brutality, because they may be arrested for being part of an 'illegal protest'*, and because there is a high likelihood of crimes committed by police being swept under the carpet.

* Protest in free, open, democratic societies is never illegal.

Here is the example of gratuitous police assault, violence and brutality I previously posted in another thread:

Horrific moment policemen shove woman to the ground and pepper spray her face as she lay hurt on the road - as protest over lockdown erupted into violence on the streets of Melbourne

48092759-10005641-image-a-62_1632028347010.jpg



I think it's also time for a repeat of this C.S Lewis quote, because it simply can't be said too many times:

quote-of-all-tyrannies-a-tyranny-sincerely-exercised-for-the-good-of-its-victims-may-be-the-most-c-s-lewis-284427.jpg

The system is what it is. If people don't want to clash with the police, they should not riot. It's simple. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. Saul lost his job as king for it. There are such things as peaceful protest and that's fine. But to deliberately provoke the cops to get a cool youtube video is evil. There are groups who want to promote violence and they are taking advantage of the current frustrations.

Cops who go too far will be disciplined. At least one has been charged with excessive force. Good. Get the few bad eggs out. But I take the side of the cops when protest turns to riot.
 
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Aussie Pete

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As I mentioned in another thread, some of what the Australian police are doing can only really be described as gratuitous assault, violence, and brutality. Why are they doing it? I'd guess it's because some of them are thugs, and they enjoy attacking people, knowing that those people won't be able to fight back. Also, people will be unlikely to report instances of police assault, violence and brutality, because they may be arrested for being part of an 'illegal protest'*, and because there is a high likelihood of crimes committed by police being swept under the carpet.

* Protest in free, open, democratic societies is never illegal.

Here is the example of gratuitous police assault, violence and brutality I previously posted in another thread:

Horrific moment policemen shove woman to the ground and pepper spray her face as she lay hurt on the road - as protest over lockdown erupted into violence on the streets of Melbourne




I think it's also time for a repeat of this C.S Lewis quote, because it simply can't be said too many times:
Further to my previous comment, at least our police force is not locking up Christians for quoting the Bible or displaying verses on a computer screen. We do some street witnessing. The police have not said a word to us and they patrol the area regularly. The same cannot be said for the UK cops.
 
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JustSomeBloke

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The system is what it is. If people don't want to clash with the police, they should not riot. It's simple. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. Saul lost his job as king for it. There are such things as peaceful protest and that's fine. But to deliberately provoke the cops to get a cool youtube video is evil. There are groups who want to promote violence and they are taking advantage of the current frustrations.
If you're not allowed to peacefully assemble and protest, then I don't think you can really claim that you're living in a free and open democracy anymore. And I'm not just singling Australia out for that. I think many Western 'democracies' have been guilty of the same, although a lot of it never gets properly reported in the MSM.

As for rioting, you should be aware from my previous posts in the other thread, that Australian police kettled hundreds of people with no way out. Instead of being able to march peacefully and then go home, the police crammed them closer and closer together. That made the situation worse for two reasons.
1. Covid transmission is more likely when people are crushed together.
2. The police deliberately created a confrontation instead of a de-escalation.

I'm sorry if you think that breaking through a police line after being kettled is 'rioting' because in my opinion that situation was totally avoidable, and entirely created by the police. And even after the protesters broke through the police line, the police continued spraying people with pepper spray, which was totally pointless, and appeared to be motivated by a desire for revenge.

And I don't know the background to that elderly woman being shoved to the ground and pepper sprayed, but I think it's fairly obvious that someone who's already been shoved to the ground poses very little threat. So why spray her in the face? And not just one cop, but two cops doing it!

Cops who go too far will be disciplined. At least one has been charged with excessive force. Good. Get the few bad eggs out. But I take the side of the cops when protest turns to riot.
A lot more than one need disciplining. And as I previously said, kettling protesters seemed designed to create a confrontation. They got the confrontation they wanted, and used it to make the protesters look bad. And then people like you take the side of the police, which is exactly what the police and authorities wanted to happen. Don't you feel even a tiny bit manipulated that the police engineered the whole situation to make those protesters look violent? And now that protesters know they may be kettled, pepper sprayed and generally assaulted by the police, do you think it's more likely that a few might decide to bring a chair leg with them next time, just in case they get kettled again?

Further to my previous comment, at least our police force is not locking up Christians for quoting the Bible or displaying verses on a computer screen. We do some street witnessing. The police have not said a word to us and they patrol the area regularly. The same cannot be said for the UK cops.
I think you're getting the wrong idea. I'm not anti-police or anti-Australian. I support the right for peaceful assembly and protest, because it's one of the cornerstones of democracy. And I think it's totally unrealistic to expect to ram through controversial vaccine mandates, while also banning protest. From that point of view the police need a better approach.

And I've got plenty of complaints about the way UK police have approached protests in the UK. We've had lots of police heavy-handedness here in the UK, so please don't think I'm singling out Australia. And just recently we've learned that a policeman may have used covid lockdown rules to enable them to kidnap, rape and murder a young woman.

With all of that in mind, please don't take this personally, or as an attack on Australians or Australia. I've nothing against you guys, and have always found Australians to be warm, friendly and pleasant.
 
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Aussie Pete

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If you're not allowed to peacefully assemble and protest, then I don't think you can really claim that you're living in a free and open democracy anymore. And I'm not just singling Australia out for that. I think many Western 'democracies' have been guilty of the same, although a lot of it never gets properly reported in the MSM.

As for rioting, you should be aware from my previous posts in the other thread, that Australian police kettled hundreds of people with no way out. Instead of being able to march peacefully and then go home, the police crammed them closer and closer together. That made the situation worse for two reasons.
1. Covid transmission is more likely when people are crushed together.
2. The police deliberately created a confrontation instead of a de-escalation.

I'm sorry if you think that breaking through a police line after being kettled is 'rioting' because in my opinion that situation was totally avoidable, and entirely created by the police. And even after the protesters broke through the police line, the police continued spraying people with pepper spray, which was totally pointless, and appeared to be motivated by a desire for revenge.

And I don't know the background to that elderly woman being shoved to the ground and pepper sprayed, but I think it's fairly obvious that someone who's already been shoved to the ground poses very little threat. So why spray her in the face? And not just one cop, but two cops doing it!


A lot more than one need disciplining. And as I previously said, kettling protesters seemed designed to create a confrontation. They got the confrontation they wanted, and used it to make the protesters look bad. And then people like you take the side of the police, which is exactly what the police and authorities wanted to happen. Don't you feel even a tiny bit manipulated that the police engineered the whole situation to make those protesters look violent? And now that protesters know they may be kettled, pepper sprayed and generally assaulted by the police, do you think it's more likely that a few might decide to bring a chair leg with them next time, just in case they get kettled again?


I think you're getting the wrong idea. I'm not anti-police or anti-Australian. I support the right for peaceful assembly and protest, because it's one of the cornerstones of democracy. And I think it's totally unrealistic to expect to ram through controversial vaccine mandates, while also banning protest. From that point of view the police need a better approach.

And I've got plenty of complaints about the way UK police have approached protests in the UK. We've had lots of police heavy-handedness here in the UK, so please don't think I'm singling out Australia. And just recently we've learned that a policeman may have used covid lockdown rules to enable them to kidnap, rape and murder a young woman.

With all of that in mind, please don't take this personally, or as an attack on Australians or Australia. I've nothing against you guys, and have always found Australians to be warm, friendly and pleasant.
Thanks for you remarks. I would hate to see the police in Australia being lumped together with other, much more violent police forces. We are headed in entirely the wrong direction, courtesy of state governments that seem to have become power crazy. Rioters play into the hands of regimes seeking to be even more authoritarian. The cops, more often than not, are the meat in the sandwich.

The videos are reviewed and action will be taken if the authorities believe that it is appropriate. At least we have evidence. It's hard to cover up when it's all over the internet. I still am more inclined to blame the protestors/rioters. There have been COVID transmissions as a result of the demonstrations. It's unacceptable to put the lives of others at risk in that way.
 
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rjs330

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Thanks for you remarks. I would hate to see the police in Australia being lumped together with other, much more violent police forces. We are headed in entirely the wrong direction, courtesy of state governments that seem to have become power crazy. Rioters play into the hands of regimes seeking to be even more authoritarian. The cops, more often than not, are the meat in the sandwich.

The videos are reviewed and action will be taken if the authorities believe that it is appropriate. At least we have evidence. It's hard to cover up when it's all over the internet. I still am more inclined to blame the protestors/rioters. There have been COVID transmissions as a result of the demonstrations. It's unacceptable to put the lives of others at risk in that way.

Pete you seem to be falling for the ole "US Police are bad" propeganda. It's a leftist media blitz. US police are no worse than Aussie police.

Everywhere you have police there are issues among them. Police are not immune to bad behavior. They are not immune to having bad actors among them. As you said police in Australia do have cops that got into trouble for their actions. So do we. All you have to do is a bit of research and you will find that police here have also gotten into trouble for their inappropriate actions. But like Australia the actual number of excessive force incidents in America is far less than 1% of interactions. That's quite good. It shows just how professional the police really are as a whole in America. And I believe in Australia too.

Cops is America where heavily criticized for Ketteling people and accused that it was the police fault the people rioted. Just like Australia.

And we had riots in many places in the US as you probably know.

I think in Australia the problem is police are being tasked with enforcing laws like masking. Same as in Canada and UK etc. In the US we had to shut down businesses and churches etc. Yet people were allowed to gather by the hundreds or thousands to protest. Very hypocritical. In Australia apparently they are not allowed to gather like that.

I appreciate you supporting the police. They have a really tough job. Just don't fall for the leftist propeganda on how hotribl the police are in the US. It's simply not true.
 
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rjs330

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If you're not allowed to peacefully assemble and protest, then I don't think you can really claim that you're living in a free and open democracy anymore. And I'm not just singling Australia out for that. I think many Western 'democracies' have been guilty of the same, although a lot of it never gets properly reported in the MSM.

As for rioting, you should be aware from my previous posts in the other thread, that Australian police kettled hundreds of people with no way out. Instead of being able to march peacefully and then go home, the police crammed them closer and closer together. That made the situation worse for two reasons.
1. Covid transmission is more likely when people are crushed together.
2. The police deliberately created a confrontation instead of a de-escalation.

I'm sorry if you think that breaking through a police line after being kettled is 'rioting' because in my opinion that situation was totally avoidable, and entirely created by the police. And even after the protesters broke through the police line, the police continued spraying people with pepper spray, which was totally pointless, and appeared to be motivated by a desire for revenge.

And I don't know the background to that elderly woman being shoved to the ground and pepper sprayed, but I think it's fairly obvious that someone who's already been shoved to the ground poses very little threat. So why spray her in the face? And not just one cop, but two cops doing it!


A lot more than one need disciplining. And as I previously said, kettling protesters seemed designed to create a confrontation. They got the confrontation they wanted, and used it to make the protesters look bad. And then people like you take the side of the police, which is exactly what the police and authorities wanted to happen. Don't you feel even a tiny bit manipulated that the police engineered the whole situation to make those protesters look violent? And now that protesters know they may be kettled, pepper sprayed and generally assaulted by the police, do you think it's more likely that a few might decide to bring a chair leg with them next time, just in case they get kettled again?


I think you're getting the wrong idea. I'm not anti-police or anti-Australian. I support the right for peaceful assembly and protest, because it's one of the cornerstones of democracy. And I think it's totally unrealistic to expect to ram through controversial vaccine mandates, while also banning protest. From that point of view the police need a better approach.

And I've got plenty of complaints about the way UK police have approached protests in the UK. We've had lots of police heavy-handedness here in the UK, so please don't think I'm singling out Australia. And just recently we've learned that a policeman may have used covid lockdown rules to enable them to kidnap, rape and murder a young woman.

With all of that in mind, please don't take this personally, or as an attack on Australians or Australia. I've nothing against you guys, and have always found Australians to be warm, friendly and pleasant.

I appreciate your comments on this. Especially on a for like this where it seems like people want nothing more than to demonize the police in America, cause you know, America is bad. While upholding foreign police as wonderful.

This gives us a proper perspective that all police everywhere do have incidents that are dubious at best and abusive at worst. Just like America.

Your posts add an important and too often overlooked perspective.
 
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rjs330

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I don't remember the last peaceful protest . That you're talking about. I just know Trump told his brain washed supporters to protest Democrats shutdowns . When we were easing restrictions. Then BLM happened . For good reasons. Nobody wants riot. or anything crazy. That you believe happened .

Oh yes they did want riots. They happened an many places across the US. Those that rioted wanted it. And most all came out of the BLM protests.
 
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Aussie Pete

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If you're not allowed to peacefully assemble and protest, then I don't think you can really claim that you're living in a free and open democracy anymore. And I'm not just singling Australia out for that. I think many Western 'democracies' have been guilty of the same, although a lot of it never gets properly reported in the MSM.

As for rioting, you should be aware from my previous posts in the other thread, that Australian police kettled hundreds of people with no way out. Instead of being able to march peacefully and then go home, the police crammed them closer and closer together. That made the situation worse for two reasons.
1. Covid transmission is more likely when people are crushed together.
2. The police deliberately created a confrontation instead of a de-escalation.

I'm sorry if you think that breaking through a police line after being kettled is 'rioting' because in my opinion that situation was totally avoidable, and entirely created by the police. And even after the protesters broke through the police line, the police continued spraying people with pepper spray, which was totally pointless, and appeared to be motivated by a desire for revenge.

And I don't know the background to that elderly woman being shoved to the ground and pepper sprayed, but I think it's fairly obvious that someone who's already been shoved to the ground poses very little threat. So why spray her in the face? And not just one cop, but two cops doing it!


A lot more than one need disciplining. And as I previously said, kettling protesters seemed designed to create a confrontation. They got the confrontation they wanted, and used it to make the protesters look bad. And then people like you take the side of the police, which is exactly what the police and authorities wanted to happen. Don't you feel even a tiny bit manipulated that the police engineered the whole situation to make those protesters look violent? And now that protesters know they may be kettled, pepper sprayed and generally assaulted by the police, do you think it's more likely that a few might decide to bring a chair leg with them next time, just in case they get kettled again?


I think you're getting the wrong idea. I'm not anti-police or anti-Australian. I support the right for peaceful assembly and protest, because it's one of the cornerstones of democracy. And I think it's totally unrealistic to expect to ram through controversial vaccine mandates, while also banning protest. From that point of view the police need a better approach.

And I've got plenty of complaints about the way UK police have approached protests in the UK. We've had lots of police heavy-handedness here in the UK, so please don't think I'm singling out Australia. And just recently we've learned that a policeman may have used covid lockdown rules to enable them to kidnap, rape and murder a young woman.

With all of that in mind, please don't take this personally, or as an attack on Australians or Australia. I've nothing against you guys, and have always found Australians to be warm, friendly and pleasant.

Update on youtube reports on demonstrations:

"Meanwhile, a number of graphic photos allegedly showing wounds suffered by the protesters were found by fact checkers at Lead Stories to be unrelated to the Melbourne rallies.
The three photos analysed were all years old and had originated in Buenos Aires, and the US cities of Ferguson, in Missouri, and Louisville, Kentucky."

One of the protestors stated that he was not assaulted by police as some had claimed. He had a fight with a shopkeeper. He supposedly died from a rubber bullet wound. There is often a lot more than meets the eye. As someone said, believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear.
 
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JustSomeBloke

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Update on youtube reports on demonstrations:

"Meanwhile, a number of graphic photos allegedly showing wounds suffered by the protesters were found by fact checkers at Lead Stories to be unrelated to the Melbourne rallies.
The three photos analysed were all years old and had originated in Buenos Aires, and the US cities of Ferguson, in Missouri, and Louisville, Kentucky."

One of the protestors stated that he was not assaulted by police as some had claimed. He had a fight with a shopkeeper. He supposedly died from a rubber bullet wound. There is often a lot more than meets the eye. As someone said, believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear.
I have pretty much zero trust in the self-styled and so-called 'fact checkers'. For all we know the injury reports could be deliberate misinformation, circulated with the intent to 'fact check' them, and make protestors look like liars.

Remember, this isn't just a battle for the right to peacefully assemble and protest. It's also a battle to construct a narrative around the protestors, and I'm prepared to believe that there are people who would go to great lengths to try and ensure that public opinion doesn't turn against the police and the authorities.

Sorry to be so sceptical and cynical, but it's come from years of experience watching governments and media trying to manipulate public opinion.

By the way. Did you ever watch the twitter video in the other thread? I'd guess that the guy in the orange top had, at the very least, a very swollen jaw, after being punched in the face by police. Why not watch these videos, see the police throwing punches and pepper spraying people, instead of going to some self-styled 'fact checker', that could be absolutely anyone with an agenda to push?
 
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Aussie Pete

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I have pretty much zero trust in the self-styled and so-called 'fact checkers'. For all we know the injury reports could be deliberate misinformation, circulated with the intent to 'fact check' them, and make protestors look like liars.

Remember, this isn't just a battle for the right to peacefully assemble and protest. It's also a battle to construct a narrative around the protestors, and I'm prepared to believe that there are people who would go to great lengths to try and ensure that public opinion doesn't turn against the police and the authorities.

Sorry to be so sceptical and cynical, but it's come from years of experience watching governments and media trying to manipulate public opinion.

By the way. Did you ever watch the twitter video in the other thread? I'd guess that the guy in the orange top had, at the very least, a very swollen jaw, after being punched in the face by police. Why not watch these videos, see the police throwing punches and pepper spraying people, instead of going to some self-styled 'fact checker', that could be absolutely anyone with an agenda to push?
I'm not going to say any more than this. A number of police officers were in hospital after the riots. They did not injure themselves.
 
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JustSomeBloke

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I'm not going to say any more than this. A number of police officers were in hospital after the riots. They did not injure themselves.
Of course! The police, authorities and MSM want you to know about that, but they are less keen on informing people of the circumstances that led up to that, and the police's role in engineering a standoff that would eventually lead to a violent confrontation.

What would you do if a bunch of armed people prevented you from leaving an area and going about your lawful business?

And of course we'll never hear about most of the protestor's genuine injuries, because they don't want to be arrested for attending an 'illegal protest'. Most will probably lie about how they became injured if they require medical treatment. If you can't see that this is a no-win situation, where one side holds almost all of the power to determine outcomes, and then write the official account after the event (aided and abetted by the MSM) then I'm not sure what to say to you.

By the way, have you watched the video yet? Did you spot the guy in the orange shirt being punched in the face?
 
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Bradskii

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For all we know the injury reports could be deliberate misinformation, circulated with the intent to 'fact check' them, and make protestors look like liars.

So you're saying that the report of the guy being hurt could be true. Or maybe not. Because the confirmation that he wasn't hurt might be a ruse. Or he was hurt but we don't know if it was at the rally. Or maybe someone made up the story so he would deny it and that would make the people posting the story look bad. Or maybe none of it happened.

You are telling us that nothing we see or read can be trusted. It's all smoke and mirrors. Don't be fooled by any of it.

And then you say 'By the way, did you see that twitter video..?'

Endless fun.
 
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How many gun related deaths in the USA? How many in Australia? I don't see any dignity in giving a drug addled loser an AR15 so he can shoot up a school.

FBI Stats Show Knives Kill Far More People Than Rifles In America – It’s Not Even Close
the number of homicides committed using a rifle (364) is much smaller.
In addition, 600 people were killed in 2019 with what the FBI refers to as “personal weapons,” meaning hands, fists or feet. Knives or other “cutting tools” accounted for another 1,476 homicides — about three times the number killed by rifles.

FBI Stats Show Knives Kill Far More People Than Rifles In America – It’s Not Even Close

Might as well ban feet, hands and knives
 
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Original Happy Camper

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It's so sad how bad it's gotten in the UK... Just as recently as the 1980's it seemed like such a great place.

What a monumental shame.

It is done on purpose by the locust out of the pit
 
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Original Happy Camper

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It's the world system and it is controlled by Satan. We should be grateful that we have not sunk to the level of North Korea or Muslim nations.

We will get there

Remember the second beast of Revelation COMPELS all to worship the first beast
 
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JustSomeBloke

Unacceptable Fringe Minority
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Australian Police take violence to a whole new level. Are they out of control? Watch the video (if you can without feeling ill), and decide for yourself.

How man who was slammed face-first into the ground by a Melbourne cop 'called for his mum' after he woke up 'with his own blood and urine everywhere' - as the violent footage gains worldwide attention

'This poor guy was calm, he was just talking to the police,' her video caption read.

'You can see it it in the video then he gets thrown to the ground. You can hear his face hit the tiles. He was unconscious, blood and urine everywhere.'

The witness said police then handcuffed the man, who was unconscious 'for a while' before being treated by paramedics.

'When he woke up he was calling for his mum,' the witness told news.com.au.

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I'm baffled as to why some forum members are still defending this sort of horrific, gratuitous violence and thuggishness as 'for the good of public health'.





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