What Ellen G. White Says About Sabbath Observance

tall73 · Sep 30, 2021

BobRyan said:
I don't see how you get around this answer posted a number of different times by now.

I didn't get around it. I noted that you acknowledge what the OP article was saying.

You say Miller was excused because he didn't understand the claims of the Sabbath.

And the point of the OP article was that those who DID understand if they disregard it are toast. It is not complicated, which is why guevaraj could come in and say he agrees with no problem.

BobRyan · Sep 30, 2021

Abaxvahl said:
Where are these supposed prophecies written? Do these so-called revelations claim to be binding on mankind universally and to truly reveal a change of state in the world or the requirements of salvation?

1. There is no claim that anyone must read the messages God gave Ellen White. The only requirement for Salvation is to accept the Gospel and the Bible as the Word of God. And even that is subject to a degree - to James 4:17
2. The visions given are about what will come upon the world in the near future. whether one chooses to look at them or not is an individual choice.
3. They also include a lot of detail about history including one volume commentary on the Life of Christ that is known all over the world published in many languages.

Ceallaigh · Sep 30, 2021

tall73 said:
You stated that non-sda's did not lose salvation because they did not have the correct doctrine regarding the fourth commandment.

But you now later acknowledged that those who understood the claims and thought it was true would be judged for that.

Which is pretty much the same thing the RCC says regarding Roman Catholicism.

BobRyan · Sep 30, 2021

tall73 said:
I didn't get around it. I noted that you acknowledge what the OP article was saying.

You say Miller was excused because he didn't understand the claims of the Sabbath.

I point out that James 4:17 applies even to him according to Ellen White
1. He lived AFTER 1844 and never accepted the Sabbath
2. He never accepted the Sanctuary message of Rev 14 and Heb 8 and 9
3. Ellen White viewed him as someone who would be in heaven all the same.

She also thought that of Stockman who died even before Oct 22, 1844.

your point that some folks would understand and accept the Bible Sabbath even before 1844 and also after 1844 and that each person's case is different is the same as my James 4:17 application. And the quote I gave already explains why Ellen White expected that Millerites would have a lot more background on these two doctrine as to their importance - just as the early Christians thought that Jews would be the first and most likely place to being evangelism.

I don't see how this point is at all complicated or that it has to be reviewed over and over - where is the difficulty here??

BobRyan · Sep 30, 2021

MMXX said:
Which is pretty much the same thing the RCC says regarding Roman Catholicism.

The idea that people are not held accountable for what they do not know... hmmm... let me seee..

James 4:17

tall73 · Sep 30, 2021

Abaxvahl said:
Where are these supposed prophecies written?

In the writings of Ellen White of course. From Adventist's official beliefs:

The Gift of Prophecy Z18The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.)

But you will need to allot a fair amount of time if you want to read through them.

tall73 · Sep 30, 2021

BobRyan said:
That speaks volumes... guevaraj has a well established presence here on the Sabbath and the Law forum

Great. Then they can ask him instead of getting unrelated "context".

tall73 · Sep 30, 2021

BobRyan said:
I said context matters ... Do you believe that is a "nonsense rule"??

Yet you didn't quote the "context"--the rest of the article in Review in Herald.

You quoted other passages that spoke of a Sunday Law which you admitted the OP passage did not reference.

And then you objected when they thought that "context" was not helpful.

Abaxvahl · Sep 30, 2021

tall73 said:
In the writings of Ellen White of course. From Adventist's official beliefs:

The Gift of Prophecy Z18The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.)

But you will need to allot a fair amount of time if you want to read through them.

Lord have mercy. I suspect it won't be a long dive to see immediately whether or not the whole is true or corrupt.

tall73 · Sep 30, 2021

BobRyan said:
I point out that James 4:17 applies even to him according to Ellen White
1. He lived AFTER 1844 and never accepted the Sabbath
2. He never accepted the Sanctuary message of Rev 14 and Heb 8 and 9
3. Ellen White viewed him as someone who would be in heaven all the same.

Yes, once again, those who rejected it understanding its claims, which she indicated he did not.

There is no confusion for either of us on that point. There is confusion in your bringing in unrelated quotes and dancing around the one in the OP.

She also thought that of Stockman who died even before Oct 22, 1844.

And I pointed out her statement saying so, as she said the test was not present then.

your point that some folks would understand and accept the Bible Sabbath even before 1844 and also after 1844 and that each person's case is different is the same as my James 4:17 application.

Yes, and was the subject of the thread, not the other stuff on the Sunday law you posted repeatedly about and then acknowledged had nothing to do with the quote in the OP.

And the quote I gave already explains why Ellen White expected that Millerites would have a lot more background on these two doctrine as to their importance - just as the early Christians thought that Jews would be the first and most likely place to being evangelism.

Yes, but it doesn't explain why you downplayed it being a test for all people not just the Millerites.

I don't see how this point is at all complicated or that it has to be reviewed over and over - where is the difficulty here??

The difficulty is that you distracted from the OP quote by posting unrelated Sunday law material, called it "context" and ignored the actual context of the article quoted in the OP. Then you criticized others for not acknowledging your "context".

The difficulty is that it shouldn't be difficult for you to say what you believe when asked about it instead of sending people down rabbit trails and then eventually admitting to what was asked in the first place.

Hence my suggestion people ask more straight forward Adventists.

guevaraj · Sep 30, 2021

Abaxvahl said:
Lord have mercy. I suspect it won't be a long dive to see immediately whether or not the whole is true or corrupt.

Brother, the following quote convinced me that she is the real deal. We understood "what even is" but we have not understood "when it is": even falls in the middle of the first day and not as supposed was at the beginning because the Sabbath in Israel is not as supposed a day of the week.

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Ceallaigh · Oct 1, 2021

BobRyan said:
I said context matters ... Do you believe that is a "nonsense rule"??

What you originally said was gaslight nonsense.

BobRyan said:
It is not true -- are you saying you wish it were true?

This is how the non-SDA publication "ChristianityToday" makes that observation - in Feb 2015. It states that the SDA denomination is the fifth largest Christian denomination in the world and the fastest growing one in the world. We never evangelize non-SDAs by asking them to believe whatever Ellen White said -- rather the entire presentation is "sola scriptura". And no "comparisons" to something Ellen White wrote in those Bible studies - just "look at the Bible".

It is not "reasonable" to declare that all those non-SDAs "just so happen" to want to read the bible according to what they might imagine Ellen White to have believed.

you have free will of course and can turn your own thread into that sort of imagined view - but it does not stand up to the facts.

Here's a link to that Christianity Today January/February 2015 article. It will be interesting to see if it matches up to what you said it says.

What I see is the sda church trying to avoid admitting that what they teach is an interpretation of scripture that was formulated by Ellen White. Just the same as the Reformed church teaches an interpretation of scripture formulated by John Calvin.

The difference is, the reformed church isn't afraid to admit that and they even call themselves Calvinists. That's because they're being realistically honest and not trying to deny or hide the truth. Whereas the sda church seems desperate to sweep Ellen White, its founder and formulator of its doctrine, under the rug.

I think there's a couple of reasons for that. They want to be able to insist that the sda doctrine is not man-made, which it quite obviously is. And perhaps because they consider Ellen White to be an embarrassment.

Ceallaigh · Oct 1, 2021

BobRyan said:
The idea that people are not held accountable for what they do not know...hmmm... let me seee..

James 4:17

Both "those who understood the claims and thought it was true would be judged for that." and "If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them." Has to do with those know something to be true, and reject it - which not the same thing as "the idea that people are not held accountable for what they do not know" which is ignorance.

tl;dr: Knowing or believing in something to be true and rejecting it, is not the same as not knowing about it.

honey badger · Oct 1, 2021

BobRyan said:
I attended one of his presentations in person and have never heard that he left the denomination at any time in his life. Do you have some documentation that states it?

not at hand ... it was well know his church rejected his claims and years back i heard he left the SDA church but now thinking about it not sure if he left his church or the SDA and as i watched just about everything on the internet about him, it would be near impossible to go back and find where i heard this ...

Ceallaigh · Oct 1, 2021

tall73 said:

Ay caramba!

Ceallaigh · Oct 1, 2021

tall73 said:
Yes, once again, those who rejected it understanding its claims, which she indicated he did not.

There is no confusion for either of us on that point. There is confusion in your bringing in unrelated quotes and dancing around the one in the OP.

And I pointed out her statement saying so, as she said the test was not present then.

Yes, and was the subject of the thread, not the other stuff on the Sunday law you posted repeatedly about and then acknowledged had nothing to do with the quote in the OP.

Yes, but it doesn't explain why you downplayed it being a test for all people not just the Millerites.

The difficulty is that you distracted from the OP quote by posting unrelated Sunday law material, called it "context" and ignored the actual context of the article quoted in the OP. Then you criticized others for not acknowledging your "context".

The difficulty is that it shouldn't be difficult for you to say what you believe when asked about it instead of sending people down rabbit trails and then eventually admitting to what was asked in the first place.

Hence my suggestion people ask more straight forward Adventists.

Maybe I should write SDA headquarters and ask them to send better representatives.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Oct 1, 2021

klutedavid said:
I disagree with what you wrote.

If you are born into the law, then yes, of course sin is transgression of the law.

If you are not born under the law, then any transgression of the law is impossible.

A Gentile cannot transgress the law, where there is no law there is no violation.

I do not understand why you legal folk do not understand this point. It is very clear in the New Testament that Gentiles were never under the law.

If there is no law, then there is no sin, then why do you have need of grace...sin is sin...God many times punished the Nations for it...

Ceallaigh · Oct 1, 2021

guevaraj said:
Brother, the following quote convinced me that she is the real deal. We understood "what even is" but we have not understood "when it is": even falls in the middle of the first day and not as supposed was at the beginning because the Sabbath in Israel is not as supposed a day of the week.

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hast ye ever wondered why the angel was using 16th century Elizabethan English when talking to a 19th century American? Was it so the angel soundeth like the King James Bible?

chad kincham · Oct 1, 2021

MMXX said:
"Satan is the sharpest critic that the world has ever known, and he works to hinder and pervert truth. He has induced men to strive to change the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. Under his dictation the first day of the week has been adopted by the Christian world as the Sabbath. He has used his masterly mind to influence other men to adopt the same views that he himself entertains. But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth." - Ellen G. White {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

So, what is your opinion about that?

That the 7th day sabbath is an ended ceremonial day of rest that foreshadowed the rest we have in Jesus today, that was given only to the nation of Israel as a covenant sign between God and them, and given as a memorial of remembrance to them of being set free from slavery in Egypt.

Maranatha

Ceallaigh · Oct 1, 2021

I wonder why Satan's grand scheme was to get Christians to go to church on Sunday, rather than getting them to green light more devilish things like lying, stealing or commit adultery.

What Ellen G. White Says About Sabbath Observance

Do you agree with Ellen G. White's statement?

YES

NO

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