I don't think we can choose what to believe

Mark Quayle said:

You seem to be mistaking what Calvinists believe. They don't say you can't choose to believe. They say that the lost, being spiritually dead, cannot choose to believe in Christ, until God has regenerated them (in which case they are no longer lost).

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I agree with this and I'm not a Calvinist

We have to be drawn by the spirit to be born again! No on e seeks God unless the Spirit draws them

Many will try enter the gate and not be able to Jesus said.

My theory is that salvation is about realising the b
old of Jesus alone has secured salvation for us.

Many struggle with pride with a belief they must earn it

The narrow way is to receive Jesus sacrifice for us

broad way is depending on our own works

JohnB445 said:

Can we choose to believe that the moon is made of cheese?

I mean I can try, but the thought seems so ridiculous that I can't.

I don't think we are capable of choosing our beliefs, but we are capable of lying to ourselves however.

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Of course we are capable. We have free will and can choose to belive in anything.
Blessings.

JohnB445 said:

Can we choose to believe that the moon is made of cheese?

I mean I can try, but the thought seems so ridiculous that I can't.

I don't think we are capable of choosing our beliefs, but we are capable of lying to ourselves however.

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I think this is correct when it comes to strongly held beliefs, and I think it's fairly simple to show anyone that this is the case. Take any belief that you strongly believe and then try to believe it is false. To be clear, imagining it is false is not the same as believing it is false. If you really believe something you will not be able to choose, willy-nilly, to believe it is false. That's not how belief works. We believe what strikes us a true (or false).

Obviously, we can put ourselves in a position to change our beliefs. If we cannot help but believe that the earth is flat, we can look at available evidence to the contrary. That won't guarantee a change of belief, but it will provide the opportunity. Sidenote- that specific example shows how we might have non-epistemic reasons for beliefs we hold. Perhaps evidence is not compelling to a flat earther because their reasons for believing the earth is flat has nothing to do with evidence. Perhaps they believe based on a particular reading of scripture and certain commitments to literalism, so that no evidence could be presented that would change their belief. Or, perhaps they believe the earth is flat, not based on evidence, but because it nurtures their desire to have special insight everyone else fails to see, or whatever.

I do think we can choose our beliefs in some cases where our credence level is low one way or the other. But this is not so much a belief as it is a commitment to act according to a belief without clarifying reasons. Let's assume I am in need of help and must trust someone I don't know, i.e. I don't know if they are trustworthy or not. I can act one way or the other without having a set belief regarding their trustworthiness. If I choose to trust them I am acting as if they are. Or, if not, I am acting as if they aren't. Both of those are more a commitment to a truth for which I have no belief and my reasoning for either one will be non-epistemic, i.e. I am willing to take the risk to have the need resolved or not because the risk in trusting is too much.

JohnB445 said:

Can we choose to believe that the moon is made of cheese?

I mean I can try, but the thought seems so ridiculous that I can't.

I don't think we are capable of choosing our beliefs, but we are capable of lying to ourselves however.

Click to expand...

We choose our beliefs by way of what we choose to accept as a reasonable basis for those things we believe. No one believes a thing without reason to do so. For some, it is reason enough to believe that someone else they trust has told them a thing is so. For others, more data is required. Some, though, are so radically skeptical that they end up in a self-refuting situation, thinking silly things like, "There is no absolute truth."

A person believes something (or should) because they have examined the available evidence and either they believe the evidence or they do not believe the evidence.

Belief is really not a choice, at a trial do you chose to believe the person is guilty. It is not like going to a car lot to buy a car and you chose the car of your choice (because you like it , price,etc..).

Like your moon made of cheese, well that is kind of a far out there example. But one that is built more around reality is. Do you believe man went to the moon. I for one did in younger years, but after examining the evidence from the Bible and other areas, I now no longer believe man went to the moon. So i did not chose to stop believing that men went to the moon, but i did stop believing that men went to the moon, because i now no long believe the evidence that they did.

That is kind of what the parable of the soils is saying, about the second soil. Something came along to cause this soil to doubt at one time what they believed in. In this day and age that something could be science and their lies about creation or another religion or a sinful life choice. But like the parable, i do not believe these people just out of the blue chose one day just to not believe.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble.

d taylor said:

A person believes something (or should) because they have examined the available evidence and either they believe the evidence or they do not believe the evidence.

Belief is really not a choice, at a trial do you chose to believe the person is guilty. It is not like going to a car lot to buy a car and you chose the car of your choice (because you like it , price,etc..).

Like your moon made of cheese, well that is kind of a far out there example. But one that is built more around reality is. Do you believe man went to the moon. I for one did in younger years, but after examining the evidence from the Bible and other areas, I now no longer believe man went to the moon. So i did not chose to stop believing that men went to the moon, but i did stop believing that men went to the moon, because i now no long believe the evidence that they did.

That is kind of what the parable of the soils is saying, about the second soil. Something came along to cause this soil to doubt at one time what they believed in. In this day and age that something could be science and their lies about creation or another religion or a sinful life choice. But like the parable, i do not believe these people just out of the blue chose one day just to not believe.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble.

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If you don't think a person can choose what to believe, watch the players when the volleyball's at the boundary.

newwaytobehuman said:

We have to be drawn by the spirit to be born again! No on e seeks God unless the Spirit draws them

Many will try enter the gate and not be able to Jesus said.

My theory is that salvation is about realising the b
old of Jesus alone has secured salvation for us.

Many struggle with pride with a belief they must earn it

The narrow way is to receive Jesus sacrifice for us

broad way is depending on our own works

Click to expand...

If you're interested in things soteriological check out: www.soteriology101.com

JohnB445 said:

Can we choose to believe that the moon is made of cheese?

I mean I can try, but the thought seems so ridiculous that I can't.

I don't think we are capable of choosing our beliefs, but we are capable of lying to ourselves however.

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Lying to ourselves happens .... it's better termed deceived.

God gave us scripture to avoid deception ... even self-deception.

The word believe .... to believe biblically ... is to follow in the steps of Jesus ... we become believers in Him and what He has done and is doing .... includes faith.

One can believe anything to be true ... that doesn't make it true ... and people do indeed choose what they "believe".

John 17:17
Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

Sadly I think a lot of people do choose what to believe, based on looking into several religions and just picking one that "suits" them. I did this when I was younger and initially settled on Buddhism. I may be wrong but I get the impression most people don't look into what evidence exists to support the religion of their choice ( the approach I took, which led me to Christianity, the religion I'd felt previously most averse to due to early negative experiences within a Christian school!). I sincerely believe if more people looked at the hard evidence there would be way more people coming to Christ.