Are non-Jewish Christians commanded to keep the 7th Day Sabbath

SabbathBlessings said:

You claim there is no law in the NT but have yet to respond to the Words from Jesus saying the opposite.

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I claimed no such thing. There is plenty of law in the NT. But that doesn't help your case one bit. Did you yet respond to this comparative? Jesus explained what he meant in Matthew in the Luke verse. It's not what you falsely claim is "the Word of God".

Matthew 5:17 NIV
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

SabbathBlessings said:

Jesus says: IF you love Me keep the Commandments (the law) John 14:15

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That's NOT what my Bible says. Commands = NOT the law
You can't even define what "the law" is. Can you?

John 14:15 NIV
“If you love me, keep my commands.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Since when is YOUR OPINION God’s Word?

Saint Steven said:

I claimed no such thing. There is plenty of law in the NT. But that doesn't help your case one bit. Did you yet respond to this comparative? Jesus explained what he meant in Matthew in the Luke verse. It's not what you falsely claim is "the Word of God".

Matthew 5:17 NIV
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

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Steve says:

Saint Steven said:

The law was our guardian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. (the law) Faith = the end of the law. (actually, we were never under the law, so... double whammy)

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Fulfill does not mean the exact opposite of what Jesus said.

When I fulfill the speed limit by going the speed limit does that destroy the law? When I am faithful to my husband and fulfilling my marriage vows does it destroy the vows. Please read what Jesus says in context.

Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Is Jesus giving you a pass to break the commandment here? Least in heaven means lost.

Maybe something to pray about?

God bless

Saint Steven said:

That's NOT what my Bible says. Commands = NOT the law
You can't even define what "the law" is. Can you?

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I don't define the law, God does

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness

Romans 3:20 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

SabbathBlessings said:

Steve says:
Saint Steven said: ↑
The law was our guardian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. (the law) Faith = the end of the law. (actually, we were never under the law, so... double whammy)

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I was quoting "God's Word". Have you no respect for it?

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

SabbathBlessings said:

I don't define the law, God does

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How many laws?
- 2?
- 10?
- 611?
- 613?

Saint Steven said:

I was quoting "God's Word". Have you no respect for it?

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

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Many misunderstood Paul even in his days and many still do. We are not under the condemnation of the law but Paul in no way is contradicting himself when he tells us what matters is keeping the commandments of God. 1 Cor 7:19.

And Paul does not contradict Jesus:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Saint Steven said:

How many laws?
- 2?
- 10?
- 611?
- 613?

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Follow scripture and you will know.

I need to get on with my day and hope you have a nice one.

Saint Steven said:

That's NOT what my Bible says. Commands = NOT the law
You can't even define what "the law" is. Can you?

John 14:15 NIV
“If you love me, keep my commands.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Since when is YOUR OPINION God’s Word?

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Are you beginning to see what tired me out?

Then again that might be the whole idea.

Saint Steven said:

How many laws?
- 2?
- 10?
- 611?
- 613?

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Well you see, when James said the whole law, he only meant the 10 commandments, because he quoted 2 out of the 10...

SabbathBlessings said:

Many misunderstood Paul even in his days and many still do. We are not under the condemnation of the law but Paul in no way is contradicting himself when he tells us what matters is keeping the commandments of God. 1 Cor 7:19.

And Paul does not contradict Jesus:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

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Interesting thing I just picked up on. "lawlessness" seems to only appear in the NT (nine times). In some translations it's "evildoers". It seems kind of odd that if "lawlessness" had to do with breaking Mosaic law, "lawlessness" would appear somewhere in the OT. But so far I'm not finding it there. Also in the KJV it's "ye that work iniquity". In the NIV it's "evildoers".

Bears some looking into. I think a thing to keep in mind is it seems pretty clear that Jesus was talking about false prophets / false miracle workers.

HIM said:

3 things were prophesied about. The destruction of the Temple, Christ second coming and the end of the world.

Matt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

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Great.
Can you point me to the verse or verses in matthew 24 where Jesus answeres their question about WHEN the temple would be destroyed?

Also, it's clear from the passage that The aposltes believed the temple's destruction, coming of Christ and end of the age were synonymous. Can you point to where in the chapter Jesus corrects their "misunderstanding"?

SabbathBlessings said:

I feel like I am on 50 first dates. Please see post #560

This had an application for the apostles and has an application for the future during the end times, right before Jesus comes.

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So according to your view, they can't really be "signs" of anything then, can they? If they simply happen over and over and over, generation after genration after generation...

You claim you are seeing earthquakes and famines therefore you KNOW we are close to the end.

The apostles all Saw WORSE famines and earthquakes than you have, and therefore believed (and taught) EXACTLY the same thing in their Day... they did not believe their day was merely a "preecurser" as you claim... nor did they teach anything of the sort.

How could they have been so wrong but you believe you are right?
Do you know something they didn't?

How do you know our day is not yet another precurser to the REAL end that is still thousands of years away?

Some things in Matthew 24 has yet to happen.

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So you agree some HAVE already happened.
Where do you draw the line?
What of Matthew 24 has been FULL-FILLED and what is still to come?

Saint Steven said:

Oh, no. You played "the God card". What am I supposed to do with that?
(I say this to help you, as you are sincerely trying to help me, I believe.)

Though what are saying about the Spirit working in you may well be true, it is VERY bad form to impose that thought on others.

You just set up a situation where I have to choose to follow you, as a self-declared representative of God, or follow the Spirit in me, that you are therefore inferring is Satan. (since our opinions don't line up)

I love you, but this is a VERY ugly thing to do to another believer. I'm strong enough to resist such a power play, but I fear that others less mature, or confident in their faith would be taken in by such a ploy. You aren't a charlatan, are you? (I hope not)

I implore you to consider what I am saying carefully. Thanks.
Again, I think your heart is in the right place, I'm waiting your mouth to catch up. - lol

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If you don't believe me believe the works. Also my opinion doesn't matter I only speak in truth there is no guile in me. God bless you. Oh and you are humourous, I like your God card line sincerely but I didn't pull that card God most high pulled me. God bless you.

Saint Steven said:

How many laws?
- 2?
- 10?
- 611?
- 613?

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Gods' 4th commandment is in the two that summarizes the ten according to the scriptures. see Matthew 22:36-40 from Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; see Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-11 also Exodus 20:8-11; Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13 and Deuteronomy 10:4. Love is expressed through obedience to Gods' law and is the new covenant promise written on the heart to love God and keep His commandments. - Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. There is no such scripture in regards to 611 or 613. We should be careful therefore to believe and follow what Gods' Word says *Romans 3:4 and not follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead many away from following God and His Word according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

Hope this is helpful.

Saint Steven said:

Like the cross?
Are you guys the ones that claim Jesus died on a stake? Or is that only the JWs?

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(John 3:14) And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

The Church of Repentance said:

I have encountered several times in my life people
who are most adamant about practicing religiously that they and we are
to do the same on the Sabbath as they did in the days of Moses. What really
amazes me about this is their almost complete regard for the greatest of
all the commandments such as the first commandment. I never hear
them preach or teach this or insist that pothers obey it as they do to the 4th,
but it is always the 4th commandment that seems to be the idol of their religion.
How do you account for this and the fact that Jesus did
that to which was unlawful on the Sabbath but yet did no sin
in the eyes of the living God? I would like to know your reasoning
concerning this I have asked of you in reply to your statements of faith.

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In my opinion Ellen White needed a gimmick to start a denomination that set itself apart from the rest of the body of Christ, without going too far overboard like some other "prophets" of her time such as Joseph Smith.

The Church of Repentance said:

Here is a scripture for you: James 2:10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
I am going to take it that you do not obey all the laws
therefore you are also guilty of not keeping the Sabbath.

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This scripture you have posted here only supports what you disagree with. James 2:10-11 stated that if we break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments by showing partiality for some while breaking others we stand guilty before God of sin. Of course this includes Gods' 4th commandment which gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken.

James 2:10-11 [10], For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

If we obey from the heart all of Gods' commandments and break Gods 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath therefore according to the scriptures we have become a transgressor of the law.

Take Care.

Saint Steven said:

How many laws?
- 2?
- 10?
- 611?
- 613?

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(Romans 8:4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

MMXX said:

In my opinion Ellen White needed a gimmick to start a denomination that set itself apart from the rest of the body of Christ, without going too far overboard like some other "prophets" of her time such as Joseph Smith.

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In my opinion from reading the scriptures, people only seek to talk about EGW as a distraction when confronted with scripture that disagrees with their teachings and traditions they cannot support in the scriptures. This is nothing new however agreeing with what Jesus has already told us in John 3:18-20 where it is written "He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." We should therefore not be afraid to come to the light of God's Word as it is the only light that shines the way when the road is dark and narrow (see Matthew 7:13-14; Psalms 119:105).