Sin...?

A_Thinker said:

The Sabbath is rest. Jesus is rest. You are hung up on the shadow ... and missing the meaning. Colossians 2 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

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Jesus is not a Sabbath or a sabbath rest. Jesus is the Word of God *John 1:1-4; 14 and according to Matthew 11:28-30 it is by coming unto him (the Word) learning of Him (the Word) and taking his yoke upon us (obeying the Word) that we receive God's rest. Of course being obedient to Gods' Word is where we receive Gods' rest not by being disobedient to Gods' Word. If we are being disobedient to God's Word it says we are like the troubled sea that has no rest in Isaiah 57:20.

There is no where in the scriptures that say that Jesus is a Sabbath. This teaching is an unbiblical false teaching but let me explain why. As posted earlier; according to the scriptures Jesus is the Lord and creator of the Sabbath that he made for all mankind *Mark 2:27-28. The only definition of the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment in the scriptures is that the Sabbath is the "seventh day" of creation that God commands us to keep as a holy day of rest. Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God... Your mixing up the rest we receive through believing and following God's Word with Gods "seventh day" Sabbath of the creation week that is a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth and one of God's 4th commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20.

................

Let's talk about Colossians 2:11-17. The context of Colossians 2:16-17 is to not letting anyone judge you in regards to the meat and drink offerings, the new moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days that are shadows of things to come but the body is of Christ. The scriptures are not talking about the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment that is outside of the Feast days as a memorial of creation. Not sure if you realize but there were many different kinds of sabbaths in the old testament scriptures that were not God's 4th commandment that could fall on any day of the week in the annual Feast days. These included; ; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that were all shadows of things to come pointing to Jesus as the promised Messiah and Savoir of the world and not God's 4th commandment that points backwards to the finished work of creation (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11).

According to the scriptures there is not a single scripture that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition of some in the early Church that has led many away from following the Word of God to breaking Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11. According to Jesus if we knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us to break the commandments of God after we have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and reject it *Hebrews 10:26-31 we are not worshiping God according to Matthew 15:2-9. This of course begs the question if we are following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God who are we believing and following; God or man?

As posted earlier, according to the new covenant scriptures, everyone of Gods' 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for christian living this of course includes God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (scripture support here linked). Therefore the writer of Hebrews says it remains for the people of God to keep the sabbath - Hebrews 4:9. God's Word does not teach the false doctrine of lawlessness (without law). This teaching is unbiblical dear friend.

Where your view that Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments is a shadow law falls apart is in your understanding of when the Sabbath was made and when shadow laws were made. According to the scriptures, the Sabbath was made before all shadow laws before sin because there was no sin! The Sabbath was made before God's plan of salvation before shadow laws were made because there was no sin....

If you disagree and still think God's 4th commandments is a "shadow law" perhaps you can answer these questions for me....

Q1. How can God's 4th commandment be a shadow of anything when it points backwards to the finished work of creation and not forward to things to come *Exodus 20:8-11?

Q2. How can God's Sabbath be a "shadow law" when there was no shadow laws when the Sabbath was made for all mankind on the seventh day of the creation week *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3?

Q3. How can Gods' Sabbath be a "shadow law" when there was no sin and no plan of salvation including the shadow laws pointing to the coming of Christ and Gods' plan of salvation from sin in the new covenant when there was no sin and no plan of salvation given to mankind because man had not sinned? *Genesis 2:1-3.

................

The above shows your understanding of Colossians 2:16-17 is not biblical and that God's 4th commandment cannot be a "shadow" of anything as it is a memorial of creation that points backwards and not forward to things to come. As posted earlier; the context of Colossians 2:16 is in regards to meat and drink offerings and new moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days not God's 4th commandment in the 10 commandments.

Take Care.

Beanieboy said:

We don't scrutinize the person who divorced and remarried, saying that according to Christ, they are committing adultery, or living an adulterous lifestyle We don't ask single Christians in the church if they are fornicating, or living a fornication lifestyle or decide if sexually active singles should be allowed in church.

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It somewhat depends on the local society. My mom got married and divorced at least twice, and my dad at least thrice. Inwardly, I look down at it and am wary when they give sexual advice but I don't outright judge them for it. Unfortunately, divorce is quite normal in my society.

I don't think romance or sex is a huge thing in life, at least not for me. But I do feel that some Christians do oppress glbt people a lot more than people who commit sexual sins. I am heteroaexual and don't care for sex or romance much, but at least I can avoid sex and romance without also being harasaed about my feelings. An glbt person can never have sex, and can even make himself a celibate, yet still be harasaed by a society for having feelings towards the same sex. Having feelings shouldn't be scrutinized so much: there are many worse sinners, especially ones who actually engage in sex.

I sympathize with glbt celibates because they usually have to live in a society that promotes sex but at the same time harasses them for their sexual feelings.

But again, I guess it depends on the local society. If I were a homosexual celibate, my life would be a lot more challenging because I live in a sexual city.

Someone shouldn't be harassed for a whole lifetime simply for a sexuality that he or she was born with. Some Chrisitans understand that, and some don't. But the society also plays a role: a Christian who harasses glbt people would likely be in a society that harasses glbt people, while a Christian who doesn't harass glbt people would likely be in a society that doesn't harass glbt people. A society that doesn't harass glbt people is more likely to have glbt people.

If I were a glbt celibate, I'd have to find societies or social groups that don't harass glbt people. I'd probably feel safest starting in groups that don't express any sexuality, and such groups can be very hard to find nowadays because almost every society or social group is sexual. Even some Chriatian social groups will put sex on a pedestal or overvalue sex. A nonsexual group doesn't promise no harassment against glbt, but it theoretically should promise no such harassment since it's not suppose to focus on sexuality. It also wouldn't promote any kind of sex or sexuality.

Again, finding a nonsexual social group can be very difficult nowadays. Almost every group is sexual where I live. And groups can be even more sexual online. I avoid the internet a lot because I've found that it's a very sexual place regardless of what website I'm on. The best that I've come towards nonsexual groups is partaking in groups where people have been punished or shamed for being sexual like STI groups and Christian groups.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a lot of sexual groups nowadays but it's just not natural, eapecially when considering that sex can literally kill via HIV and other STIs. I shouldn't be struggling to find a nonsexual group but I am happy that I've found STI groups and other groups where people are usually forced to observe that sex can be dangerous.

Then again, if I were a glbt celibate, then finding a glbt group might not be too difficult online. I don't like taking advantage of technology exclusive to my century, but I would probably feel more confident in using such technology to help avoid similar technology of glbt oppresors.

parousia70 said:

He Won't. It's Over.
Jesus Put away Sin. (Hebrews 9:26)

Sin is no longer the measuring stick by which we are Judged. (Romans 5:13)

Today, we are either:
"In Adam", already condemned, regardless of whether we sin or not.

OR

We are:
"In Christ", saved even though we sin.

Sin has absolutely nothing to do with how we are judged.

In fact, it's ONLY Sinners that get saved.

Click to expand...

Bible Verses about Judgment Day

Here's plenty of verses showing how everyone will be judged for their sin...it's just that believers will not receive the punishment of their sin.

Beanieboy said:

Is the real focus on homosexuality about pointing to something a straight person has no interest in, and so easily condemned, as opposed to fornication, pre-marital sex? And why do we nevee discuss it? If quoting Romans, why ignore gossips? People who slander?

It is inconsistent.

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I theorize that the base reason why homosexuality is spoken against so much more is because it is a perfect example of a sinful lifestyle that is so obviously willful. What I mean is that over the last 50 years it has become a regular part of society despite the Bible so obviously speaking against it and over the last 10 years has even made its way into public schools to indoctrinate children on accepting it as an acceptable lifestyle. However, pastors do still speak against things like gossip, fornication and pre-marital sex, slander and all the other sins. The issue is that the media doesn't care about that, they want to report on people who speak against what is socially acceptable and cancel them.

spiritfilledjm said:

Bible Verses about Judgment Day

Here's plenty of verses showing how everyone will be judged for their sin...it's just that believers will not receive the punishment of their sin.

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Agree! I would also add the word "do". We should believe and be doers of the word of God.

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

LoveGodsWord said:

Jesus is not a Sabbath or a sabbath rest. Jesus is the Word of God *John 1:1-4; 14 and according to Matthew 11:28-30 it is by coming unto him (the Word) learning of Him (the Word) and taking his yoke upon us (obeying the Word) that we receive God's rest. Of course being obedient to Gods' Word is where we receive Gods' rest not by being disobedient to Gods' Word. If we are being disobedient to God's Word it says we are like the troubled sea that has no rest in Isaiah 57:20.

There is no where in the scriptures that say that Jesus is a Sabbath. This teaching is an unbiblical false teaching but let me explain why. As posted earlier; according to the scriptures Jesus is the Lord and creator of the Sabbath that he made for all mankind *Mark 2:27-28. The only definition of the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment in the scriptures is that the Sabbath is the "seventh day" of creation that God commands us to keep as a holy day of rest. Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God... Your mixing up the rest we receive through believing and following God's Word with Gods "seventh day" Sabbath of the creation week that is a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth and one of God's 4th commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20.

................

Let's talk about Colossians 2:11-17. The context of Colossians 2:16-17 is to not letting anyone judge you in regards to the meat and drink offerings, the new moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days that are shadows of things to come but the body is of Christ. The scriptures are not talking about the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment that is outside of the Feast days as a memorial of creation. Not sure if you realize but there were many different kinds of sabbaths in the old testament scriptures that were not God's 4th commandment that could fall on any day of the week in the annual Feast days. These included; ; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that were all shadows of things to come pointing to Jesus as the promised Messiah and Savoir of the world and not God's 4th commandment that points backwards to the finished work of creation (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11).

According to the scriptures there is not a single scripture that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition of some in the early Church that has led many away from following the Word of God to breaking Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11. According to Jesus if we knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us to break the commandments of God after we have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and reject it *Hebrews 10:26-31 we are not worshiping God according to Matthew 15:2-9. This of course begs the question if we are following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God who are we believing and following; God or man?

As posted earlier, according to the new covenant scriptures, everyone of Gods' 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for christian living this of course includes God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (scripture support here linked). Therefore the writer of Hebrews says it remains for the people of God to keep the sabbath - Hebrews 4:9. God's Word does not teach the false doctrine of lawlessness (without law). This teaching is unbiblical dear friend.

Where your view that Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments is a shadow law falls apart is in your understanding of when the Sabbath was made and when shadow laws were made. According to the scriptures, the Sabbath was made before all shadow laws before sin because there was no sin! The Sabbath was made before God's plan of salvation before shadow laws were made because there was no sin....

If you disagree and still think God's 4th commandments is a "shadow law" perhaps you can answer these questions for me....

Q1. How can God's 4th commandment be a shadow of anything when it points backwards to the finished work of creation and not forward to things to come *Exodus 20:8-11?

Q2. How can God's Sabbath be a "shadow law" when there was no shadow laws when the Sabbath was made for all mankind on the seventh day of the creation week *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3?

Q3. How can Gods' Sabbath be a "shadow law" when there was no sin and no plan of salvation including the shadow laws pointing to the coming of Christ and Gods' plan of salvation from sin in the new covenant when there was no sin and no plan of salvation given to mankind because man had not sinned? *Genesis 2:1-3.

................

The above shows your understanding of Colossians 2:16-17 is not biblical and that God's 4th commandment cannot be a "shadow" of anything as it is a memorial of creation that points backwards and not forward to things to come. As posted earlier; the context of Colossians 2:16 is in regards to meat and drink offerings and new moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days not God's 4th commandment in the 10 commandments.

Take Care.

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this is just a very long way of saying that the new covenant didn’t change anything. The Sabbath command was a part of the original covenant between God and Israel. The flaw in your reasoning comes from an Arminian base that is incapable of moving into the freedom of the new covenant. You can stay there if you want, as for the Church, it has moved on into 2 Corinthians 5:17

Faith Unites said:

this is just a very long way of saying that the new covenant didn’t change anything. The Sabbath command was a part of the original covenant between God and Israel. The flaw in your reasoning comes from an Arminian base that is incapable of moving into the freedom of the new covenant. You can stay there if you want, as for the Church, it has moved on into 2 Corinthians 5:17

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If you disagree your welcome to show why from the scriptures but no according to the new covenant scriptures, Gods' Israel in the new covenant are not only those born of flesh of the seed of Abraham who believe and follow Gods' Word but are now all those who by faith are born of the Spirit to believe and follow what God's Word says. According to the scriptures there is no more physical Jew or gentile believer as we are all now one in Christ. Your mistake here is thinking that ISRAEL in the new covenant is only the physical seed of those born of the flesh and not of those born again of the Spirit of God through faith.

According to the new covenant scriptures in Romans 9:6-8 Paul is saying that just because you are born of the seed of Abraham does not make one Israel, they are not all Israel that are of Israel. Just because your physically born of the seed of Abraham does not make one truly Israel just as one is born a Jew does not make him a Jew, just as one that has been circumcised does not make one circumcised. A Jew is one inwardly and circumcision is not of the flesh but of the heart through the Spirit. The scriptures do not really need much words added to them perhaps you can prayerfully read them...

Romans 9:6-8 [6], Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL, WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. [8], THAT IS, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

Galatians 3:28-29 [28], There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [29], AND IF YOU BE CHRIST'S, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

Romans 2:28-29 [28], For HE IS NOT A JEW, WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARD IN THE FLESH: [29], But HE IS A JEW, WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

....................

The name ISRAEL is only a name given by God to those who believe and follow Gods' Word. Jesus would also discuss this with the Jews in His day in the following scriptures which also might be helpful to you here. The Jew made their argument that because they are born of the physical seed of Abraham they therefore are the children of God. Jesus disputes this claim in the following scriptures...

John 8:31-47
[31], Jesus therefore said to those jews that had believed him, if ye continue in my word, then are ye truly my disciples;
[32], and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[33], They answered unto him, WE ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HAVE NEVER YET BEEN IN BONDAGE TO ANY MAN: HOW SAYEST THOU, YE SHALL BE MADE FREE?
[34], Jesus answered them, VERILY, VERILY, I SAY UNTO YOU, EVERY ONE THAT COMMITTETH SIN IS THE BONDSERVANT OF SIN.
[35], And the bondservant abideth not in the house for ever: the son abideth for ever.
[36], IF THEREFORE THE SON SHALL MAKE YOU FREE, YE SHALL BE FREE INDEED.
[37], I KNOW THAT YE ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED: YET YE SEEK TO KILL ME, BECAUSE MY WORD HATH NOT FREE COURSE IN YOU.
[38], I speak the things which I have seen with my Father: AND YE ALSO DO THE THINGS WHICH YE HEARD FROM YOUR FATHER.
[39], THEY ANSWERED AND SAID UNTO HIM, OUR FATHER IS ABRAHAM. JESUS SAITH UNTO THEM, IF YE WERE ABRAHAM'S CHILDREN, YE WOULD DO THE WORKS OF ABRAHAM.
[40], BUT NOW YE SEEK TO KILL ME, A MAN THAT HATH TOLD YOU THE TRUTH, WHICH I HEARD FROM GOD: THIS DID NOT ABRAHAM.
[41], YE DO THE WORKS OF YOUR FATHER. THEY SAID UNTO HIM, WE WERE NOT BORN OF FORNICATION; WE HAVE ONE FATHER, EVEN GOD.
[42], JESUS SAID UNTO THEM, IF GOD WERE YOUR FATHER, YE WOULD LOVE ME: FOR I CAME FORTH AND AM COME FROM GOD; FOR NEITHER HAVE I COME OF MYSELF, BUT HE SENT ME.
[43], Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word.
[44], YE ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, AND THE LUSTS OF YOUR FATHER IT IS YOUR WILL TO DO. HE WAS A MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING, AND STANDETH NOT IN THE TRUTH, BECAUSE THERE IS NO TRUTH IN HIM. WHEN HE SPEAKETH A LIE, HE SPEAKETH OF HIS OWN: FOR HE IS A LIAR, AND THE FATHER THEREOF.
[45], But because I say the truth, ye believe me not.
[46], Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me?
[47], HE THAT IS OF GOD HEARETH THE WORDS OF GOD: FOR THIS CAUSE YE HEAR THEM NOT, BECAUSE YE ARE NOT OF GOD.

.................

Jesus is saying we are not Gods' children because we are born of the seed of Abraham we are the children of God because of what we believe and do that makes us the children of God or the children of the devil.

.................

Conclusion: God's true Israel in the new covenant is simply all those who are born not of the flesh but of the Spirit to believe and follow Gods' Word. Gods' Israel is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow God's Word. All believers are now one in Christ and gentile believers have been grafted in with Jewish believers who are now Gods' true Israel according to the new covenant scriptures. (more scriptures provided here linked)

Take Care.

LoveGodsword:: "Let's talk about Colossians 2:11-17. The context of Colossians 2:16-17 is to not letting anyone judge you in regards to the meat and drink offerings, the new moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days that are shadows of things to come but the body is of Christ. The scriptures are not talking about the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment that is outside of the Feast days as a memorial of creation."



"These included; ; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that were all shadows of things to come pointing to Jesus as the promised Messiah and Savoir of the world and not God's 4th commandment "







LoveGodsword is of the opinion that Colossians 2 speaks of a different kind of Sabbath, and not the Sabbath of the 10 commandments. That is him admitting, if it speaks of the Sabbath that he keeps, as the Jews did, that he is wrongly judging Christians, to have to keep, what the Jews and Seventh Day Adventists keep. ( He also insists that believers are the same as Jews now, so should keep the same ways)




Firstly looking at Acts 15, this was the attempt the Jew believer tried to d on the Gentile believer, to make them keep their same preserved ways in the Jewish belief. They insisted that Gentiles needed to be circumcised as Jews, and to command them to keep the law of Moses..


Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.



That was refuted right away by Peter, that showed the gentiles and the Jews have one thing in common ( not all things then) that is their heart purified by faith in Christ.

Any other teaching, is tempting God, and is putting a yoke ( of commandments in ordinances) around the neck of the Gentile, Christian disciples, which the fathers of the Jews were unable to bear ( being circumcised in the flesh is to make responsibility to have to keep the whole law) but we believe that through grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we shall we saved ( not by commandments of men that turn from the truth o ordinances and keeping of times and days)...



Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.




LoveGodssword, then ignores what ordinances were against us, because it was all ordinances, all that taken out of the way, ( not some and the ones they pick and choose) and no judgement remains for all things men kept, which was feasts of meat, or of drink, or any holy days ( Sabbaths are those holy days)...



Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.



Remembering LoveGodsword point, that the Sabbath was different feast days, and not the Sabbath contained in the ordinance to the Jews for their covenant ( never was given to the Gentiles) then why are we yet subject to ordinances ? The commandments of men ( such as LOveGodsword and SabbathBlessings are insisting is commanded to keep the holy day) has perished....



Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?




The new covenant had to be established, which saw the old covenant perished.


The old covenant ( that perished) was the covenant of the Sabbath covenant, given ONLY TO ISRAEL. It was never then given to the Gentiles ( as light came only now by Christs new covenant to the Gentiles) and the Sabbath was not established in this new covenant, therefore it is men trying to establish it ( hence why no new testament scripture shows a single word on it being done by gentile believing Christians)

It also is taught against, how they try to teach you to keep law, they still try the same, by quoting James, when no mention of Sabbath is worded, but all that is worded is the opposite to the letter teaching, how to love your neighbour as yourself is the fulfilling of the law.


Further proof ( it is a complete proof) is that Jesus was example against the Pharisees ( who are letter keepers and breakers, being hypocrites) who wanted Jesus to keep the Sabbath, ( all they do is seen of men and glory in men) but Jesus who is faith, does all to the glory of the Father, and the Pharisees continued to keep Sabbath, whereas Christ kept the Fathers commandments of love, to lay your life down, as this is what is sacrificed for us, this is the remembrance to be kept, which is the rest to WORK FOR.

Then here is the feast , LoveGodsword, spoke of, Christ is even our passover, showing how much more He is our Sabbath too, our everything, definitely our Lord of the Sabbath, so all feasts are kept with Him, as all is NEW WITH HIM, and IN HIM, and what truth has any disputer got left to dispute with...



1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.





LoveGodsword: "According to the scriptures there is not a single scripture that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished "

"As posted earlier, according to the new covenant scriptures, everyone of Gods' 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for christian living "

"Where your view that Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments is a shadow law falls apart is in your understanding of when the Sabbath was made and when shadow laws were made. According to the scriptures, the Sabbath was made before all shadow laws before sin because there was no sin"







All scripture says it has been abolished, the thought of a single one is silly.

The entire old testament is a testament to the failure of mans ways, of the letter, and it has to now end mans teaching, no more they teach every man their neighbour ( stop it or just be stopped by having nothing more to really say) and now the Spirit dwells in man, teaching them what they need to do, the same as Jesus and Paul, to go and lay your life down and stop talking the vanity of mans words and selfish reasons.

The Sabbath is not confirmed in the new testament for Christian believing Gentiles, the opposite is, Jesus did not dispute with Israel ( the Sabbath keeping, passovering, letter keepers) for nothing, the Gospel reveals no faith in Israel, but they continue to keep the commandments of men. All wrongful acts of the ten commandments are reaffifrmed by not working ill to your neighbour, Sabbath non keeping works ill to no neighbour.

As known, the Sabbath covenant never went to the Gentiles, it is told only, to be for Israel, as a covenant. We see them for generations in the old testament, keeping their rules and laws, and their failure by mans way. Now we have victory in Christ, and LoveGodsword, word, on law keeping, is not of any faith in the risen Christ, nor of the love of God to lay our lives down, the same as Israel, unfortunately.

Those covenants to Israel were decayed, waxed old and vanished away, they all are perished with the using, as they were after the commandments and doctrines of men ( now the doctrine of Christ speaks louder and is in faith)..




Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Colossians 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

prophecy_uk said:

LoveGodsword is of the opinion that Colossians 2 speaks of a different kind of Sabbath, and not the Sabbath of the 10 commandments. That is him admitting, if it speaks of the Sabbath that he keeps, as the Jews did, that he is wrongly judging Christians, to have to keep, what the Jews and Seventh Day Adventists keep. ( He also insists that believers are the same as Jews now, so should keep the same ways

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Not at all. According to the scriptures which are Gods' Word (not my words), Colossians 2:16-17 is talking about the meat and drink offerings, the new moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days and judging others in this regard. If you understand the annual Feast days of the old covenant you will see that these are all shadows of things to come *Colossians 2:17. For example, the days of holy convocation in the annual Feast days were also days of rest where no work was to be done which is one of the meanings of σάββατον; sabbaton in the Greek. According to the scriptures these special days of rest and no work (sabbaths; σάββατον; sabbaton; included (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36. These were all shadows of things to come pointing to Jesus as the promised Messiah and Savoir of the world and not God's 4th commandment that points backwards to the finished work of creation (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11).

According to the scriptures there is not a single scripture that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition of some in the early Church that has led many away from following the Word of God to breaking Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11. According to Jesus if we knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us to break the commandments of God after we have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and reject it *Hebrews 10:26-31 we are not worshiping God according to Matthew 15:2-9. This of course begs the question if we are following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God who are we believing and following; God or man?

As posted earlier, according to the new covenant scriptures, everyone of Gods' 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for christian living this of course includes God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (scripture support here linked). Therefore the writer of Hebrews says it remains for the people of God to keep the sabbath - Hebrews 4:9. God's Word does not teach the false doctrine of of the teachings of lawlessness (without law). This teaching is unbiblical dear friend.

prophecy_uk said:

Firstly looking at Acts 15, this was the attempt the Jew believer tried to d on the Gentile believer, to make them keep their same preserved ways in the Jewish belief. They insisted that Gentiles needed to be circumcised as Jews, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.. Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. That was refuted right away by Peter, that showed the gentiles and the Jews have one thing in common ( not all things then) that is their heart purified by faith in Christ.

Any other teaching, is tempting God, and is putting a yoke ( of commandments in ordinances) around the neck of the Gentile, Christian disciples, which the fathers of the Jews were unable to bear ( being circumcised in the flesh is to make responsibility to have to keep the whole law) but we believe that through grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we shall we saved ( not by commandments of men that turn from the truth o ordinances and keeping of times and days)...

Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

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Sorry dear friend but I respectfully disagree with your teachings of lawlessness (without law) and prefer instead what the bible teaches. For example, your interpretation of Acts of the Apostles 15 has Paul in contradiction with Paul when he says sometime latter after the decision at Jerusalem when he meets with the Corinthian gentile believers and says "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God" - 1 Corinthians 7:19. Of course the context you leave out in Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2 shows that the topic of conversation and subject matter was over the question "Is circumcision from the law of Moses a requirement for new gentile believers? This was the question that Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to discuss, not are Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 still the standard of Christian living. We should be careful to read what the scriptures actually say. Gods' Word does not teach the false doctrine of lawlessness (without law) because it is only through the law that we have a knowledge of what sin is. This is what leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith and leads us into Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 according to the scriptures.

prophecy_uk said:

Remembering LoveGodsword point, that the Sabbath was different feast days, and not the Sabbath contained in the ordinance to the Jews for their covenant ( never was given to the Gentiles) then why are we yet subject to ordinances ? The commandments of men ( such as LOveGodsword and SabbathBlessings are insisting is commanded to keep the holy day) has perished....

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Perhaps take your time and re-read what has been posted to you as I have said no such thing. Perhaps you have a misunderstanding of what has been shared with you from the scriptures. You seem to be saying things no one is saying to you.

prophecy_uk said:

The new covenant had to be established, which saw the old covenant perished. The old covenant ( that perished) was the covenant of the Sabbath covenant, given ONLY TO ISRAEL. It was never then given to the Gentiles ( as light came only now by Christs new covenant to the Gentiles) and the Sabbath was not established in this new covenant, therefore it is men trying to establish it ( hence why no new testament scripture shows a single word on it being done by gentile believing Christians)

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What is the new covenant in your view and who is Gods' Israel in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 2:28-29? For your interest the new covenant was never made with gentiles (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27). These scriptures show your teachings and understanding of the covenants is not biblical.

prophecy_uk said:

Further proof ( it is a complete proof) is that Jesus was example against the Pharisees ( who are letter keepers and breakers, being hypocrites) who wanted Jesus to keep the Sabbath, ( all they do is seen of men and glory in men) but Jesus who is faith, does all to the glory of the Father, and the Pharisees continued to keep Sabbath, whereas Christ kept the Fathers commandments of love, to lay your life down, as this is what is sacrificed for us, this is the remembrance to be kept, which is the rest to WORK FOR.

Then here is the feast , LoveGodsword, spoke of, Christ is even our passover, showing how much more He is our Sabbath too, our everything, definitely our Lord of the Sabbath, so all feasts are kept with Him, as all is NEW WITH HIM, and IN HIM, and what truth has any disputer got left to dispute with...

1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

LoveGodsword: "According to the scriptures there is not a single scripture that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished "

"As posted earlier, according to the new covenant scriptures, everyone of Gods' 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for christian living "

"Where your view that Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments is a shadow law falls apart is in your understanding of when the Sabbath was made and when shadow laws were made. According to the scriptures, the Sabbath was made before all shadow laws before sin because there was no sin"
All scripture says it has been abolished, the thought of a single one is silly.

The entire old testament is a testament to the failure of mans ways, of the letter, and it has to now end mans teaching, no more they teach every man their neighbour ( stop it or just be stopped by having nothing more to really say) and now the Spirit dwells in man, teaching them what they need to do, the same as Jesus and Paul, to go and lay your life down and stop talking the vanity of mans words and selfish reasons.

The Sabbath is not confirmed in the new testament for Christian believing Gentiles, the opposite is, Jesus did not dispute with Israel ( the Sabbath keeping, passovering, letter keepers) for nothing, the Gospel reveals no faith in Israel, but they continue to keep the commandments of men. All wrongful acts of the ten commandments are reaffifrmed by not working ill to your neighbour, Sabbath non keeping works ill to no neighbour.

As known, the Sabbath covenant never went to the Gentiles, it is told only, to be for Israel, as a covenant. We see them for generations in the old testament, keeping their rules and laws, and their failure by mans way. Now we have victory in Christ, and LoveGodsword, word, on law keeping, is not of any faith in the risen Christ, nor of the love of God to lay our lives down, the same as Israel, unfortunately.

Those covenants to Israel were decayed, waxed old and vanished away, they all are perished with the using, as they were after the commandments and doctrines of men ( now the doctrine of Christ speaks louder and is in faith)..

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Colossians 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

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There is nothing in the rest of your post here that is worth responding to as your making arguments no one is talking about.Perhaps take some more time to understand what is being shared with you from the scriptures. Gods' Word does not teach lawlessness (without law). Your teachings in this regards are not supported by scripture and unbiblical. According to Gods' Word in the new covenant. Gods' 10 commandments have the same role they always have and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and according to James if we break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. There is not one scripture in all of Gods' Word that says Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word. Jesus says that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are now worshiping God in Matthew 15:2-9. This of course begs the question if we knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God, who are we believing and following, God or man?

Take Care.

LoveGodsword: "Colossians 2:16-17 is talking about the meat and drink offerings, the new moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days and judging others in this regard."




Yes I also see from scripture, how different days were sabbaths....




Leviticus 23:39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.



I also see from scripture, how sabbaths is described as the ones on the sxeventh day, and how all of those sabbaths, feast days, new moons and solemn feasts would cease....


Lamentations 1:7 Jerusalem remembered in the days of her affliction and of her miseries all her pleasant things that she had in the days of old, when her people fell into the hand of the enemy, and none did help her: the adversaries saw her, and did mock at her sabbaths.

Hosea 2:10 And now will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and none shall deliver her out of mine hand.
11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.




Sabbath days and the sabbath, are described and exampled by Jesus to not be a necessity to be kept always, and gave example how that was profaned, and Jesus concluding it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days ( and the sabbath seventh day as Jesus healed always on that day in the Gospel)...



Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

Matthew 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

Matthew 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.



Jesus taught the people on the sabbath days ( which is any day the people are available in the synagogues, the temple) as did Apostle Paul, reasoning three sabbath days out of the scriptures with the Jews ( on sabbath day, then another sabbath day, hen another sabbath day)

Then it is more simple to see what Colossians 2:16 says, which covers holydays, new moons and all sabbath days..



Luke 4:31 And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:







LoveGodsword: "According to the scriptures there is not a single scripture that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest."



According to your knowledge of scriptures that is, but according to my knowledge, there is much teaching, to show nese4ccity has been abolished.


Our liberty cannot be judged by another man, you teach law, you teach necesssity, you teach judging others, even judging Jesus, that He had to keep your idea of laws, when Jesus came to set us at liberty.....




1 Corinthians 10:28 But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

1 Corinthians 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.




Now the Spirit warned us, that some are seducing spirits, and have doctrines of devils.

They forbid some things, and other things they command ( such as commanding to abstain from meats) which shows their necessity on man, their law giving is not the truth...



1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.



If sabbath keeping where the truth, and is a necessity, then the whole new testament would be null and void, by both Judaism and by the likes of SDA.

But the truth is greater than them, it is not of necessity, as God loves us to give freely, to do freely in liberty.

As again in Philemon, and o their giving, it has to be willingly, and not of necessity.

Again in 1 Peter 5, not by order or commandment, but willingly...



2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

Philemon 1:13 Whom I would have retained with me, that in thy stead he might have ministered unto me in the bonds of the gospel:
14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.

1 Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock.




The one thing you have missing from all of your talk LoveGodsword, is any mention at all on sabbath, it is the opposite teaching to willingness, to freedom, to liberty, to cheerfulness, it is law and necessity teaching, it is the letter, and not the Spirit of the Lord in liberty, it is the same seeking of Gods righteousness the Jews did ( and do ) which is by the works of the law and not by faith.


Now read James 2, in light of that, and when the law of Christ to bear one another's burdens is by nature in our heart, it is impossible to be a teaching that judges a man ( or God for that matter) as a sinner, for not keeping their own commandments of men, it is no commandment of God ( and if it was from God, it was strictly to the house of Israel that ceased to be by ink and stone tables but became in the heart through the Spirit)...




2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.





LoveGodsword: "Therefore the writer of Hebrews says it remains for the people of God to keep the sabbath - Hebrews 4:9. "



That is right LoveGodsword, you reveal your one and only verse of the entire Epistles on the keeping of the sabbath to remain.

If anyone reading has an ounce of stability in their mind, how can anyone fail to see you are clutching at straws, when your whole case rests on only one verse?

Yet, you have to interprete that verse, otherwise i cannot say what you would like it to state. A very poor weak and ungodly wayt o do preaching or to think that God leaves mans salvation down to yourself.




The first part to not miss ( I know you would prefer to miss this part) is how Israel failed by not having faith.

Israel sought as the SDA seek, not by faith, but by the works of the law.

Stumbling then at the stumbling stone, because all we are required to do, ( as so many know) is to believe in your heart unto righteousness and you are saved that way. This is the word of faith, which we preach, and the Jews and the SDA's way of teaching law and necessity, how is that also of faith...



Hebrews 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.





I do not care LoveGodsword, if you continue to dismiss all I say, as if it is not worth responding to,or to try to correct/ignore everything, it would be exactly the same if a man of Judaism were talking/discussing with me, about the faith of Jesus Christ. Faith is stronger than law, the same as light is way over the head of anyone in darkness, but in their darkness, they have learned their own ways, and reject need of light any more. ( that is why Judaism still rejects the faith of Christ and perversely prefers law, as do many others too as predicted and fulfilled)


Then, in a mans eyes, this of Hebrews 4:9, says the rest of sabbath is still relevent.

In Judaism they would be happy then, as the seventh day adventists are in support of their faithless religion, because theirs is on the same standing.

But away from both of them, the Christian who is in belief of liberty in Christ, sees differently. Thy see no added interpretations of wishful desperation ( which also judges Christian and even judged Jesus as a sinner) who think a sabbath rest remains.

What remains is, as exampled by Christ, as exampled by the Apostle Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, labouring to enter, just see the follow up proof that LoveGodsword, must ignore, and has nothing of his own of course showing this labouring in ACTION...





Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Acts 20:35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

1 Thessalonians 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.

Matthew 20:1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

James 5:4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.

Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Luke 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

How many years now, on this forum, has LoveGodsword, used James 2, as his example of keeping law, ( it is his way to overcome the law keeping and faith avoiding, that was highlighted in the Epistles) So why would such a person, not look a little bit guilty, when I can come along and look better at what LoveGodsword should have done, since I addressed this teaching of his, here in this thread.



To try to manipulate Gods word, into what we want it to say, is it a sin that God will forgive ?

Look at James 2, the chapter begins in what God is teaching us here in the WHOLE CHAPTER.


To not have faith in Christ, in a respect of persons way. That is to be partial, ( priests partial in the law as seen in Israel) and to be partial is to become judges of evil thoughts is told...



James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

James 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

Malachi 2:9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.



Then ( apart from the law keeping faithless followings doctrines) the fulfillment of Christ through faith, is to lay our lives down for our brothers, to love our neighbour as ourselves.

That was the summing up of the Lords word here, after all, that we need to have mercy, or God will have no mercy on us.

Now consider the Jews in Judaism, and the SDA, and all religions in this world, who chooses their own ways, to please themselves, instead of pleasing others, and of giving their lives away for others, as Jesus Christ did ( which we believe in when we do the same) and how they see these passges as an opportunity for them to support their idea of godliness, is to keep a day for themselves, and not live that day for the lives of others. That was why God gave the sabbath to man, as man cannot keep anything holy to God, so the only way they could keep anything holy at all, was to keep away from doing their own pleasures, as least for one day. This is the same as man having wisdom, when he will at least keep silent, or when man will be righteous, when God reigns in righteousness on the earth, and when this world is burned with fire and all gone away with it and their ways...


James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,



James 2, then teaches sabbath and law , for the sabbath law keepers. But now we can overcome their yokes of bondage, we speak a little better than they do, and know now, that respect of persons, is neither in sabbath keeping, nor in not keeping, but it is entirely in what is told in the whole chapter of James, and in the whole new testament of Christ, regarding respect of persons, and how for all the mercy we felt and did, that was the respect we had to others, or then, the lack of respect by doing evil to anyone ( all sinning is that evil which some ceased to do any more in faith to Christ) and their sabbath and law teaching, is seen as faith in their own ways they try so hard to defend when it has disappeared in their own hands..



Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Colossians 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

prophecy_uk said:

LoveGodsword: "Colossians 2:16-17 is talking about the meat and drink offerings, the new moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days and judging others in this regard."




Yes I also see from scripture, how different days were sabbaths....




Leviticus 23:39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.



I also see from scripture, how sabbaths is described as the ones on the sxeventh day, and how all of those sabbaths, feast days, new moons and solemn feasts would cease....


Lamentations 1:7 Jerusalem remembered in the days of her affliction and of her miseries all her pleasant things that she had in the days of old, when her people fell into the hand of the enemy, and none did help her: the adversaries saw her, and did mock at her sabbaths.

Hosea 2:10 And now will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and none shall deliver her out of mine hand.
11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.




Sabbath days and the sabbath, are described and exampled by Jesus to not be a necessity to be kept always, and gave example how that was profaned, and Jesus concluding it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days ( and the sabbath seventh day as Jesus healed always on that day in the Gospel)...



Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

Matthew 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

Matthew 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.



Jesus taught the people on the sabbath days ( which is any day the people are available in the synagogues, the temple) as did Apostle Paul, reasoning three sabbath days out of the scriptures with the Jews ( on sabbath day, then another sabbath day, hen another sabbath day)

Then it is more simple to see what Colossians 2:16 says, which covers holydays, new moons and all sabbath days..



Luke 4:31 And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:







LoveGodsword: "According to the scriptures there is not a single scripture that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest."



According to your knowledge of scriptures that is, but according to my knowledge, there is much teaching, to show nese4ccity has been abolished.


Our liberty cannot be judged by another man, you teach law, you teach necesssity, you teach judging others, even judging Jesus, that He had to keep your idea of laws, when Jesus came to set us at liberty.....




1 Corinthians 10:28 But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

1 Corinthians 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.




Now the Spirit warned us, that some are seducing spirits, and have doctrines of devils.

They forbid some things, and other things they command ( such as commanding to abstain from meats) which shows their necessity on man, their law giving is not the truth...



1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.



If sabbath keeping where the truth, and is a necessity, then the whole new testament would be null and void, by both Judaism and by the likes of SDA.

But the truth is greater than them, it is not of necessity, as God loves us to give freely, to do freely in liberty.

As again in Philemon, and o their giving, it has to be willingly, and not of necessity.

Again in 1 Peter 5, not by order or commandment, but willingly...



2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

Philemon 1:13 Whom I would have retained with me, that in thy stead he might have ministered unto me in the bonds of the gospel:
14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.

1 Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock.




The one thing you have missing from all of your talk LoveGodsword, is any mention at all on sabbath, it is the opposite teaching to willingness, to freedom, to liberty, to cheerfulness, it is law and necessity teaching, it is the letter, and not the Spirit of the Lord in liberty, it is the same seeking of Gods righteousness the Jews did ( and do ) which is by the works of the law and not by faith.


Now read James 2, in light of that, and when the law of Christ to bear one another's burdens is by nature in our heart, it is impossible to be a teaching that judges a man ( or God for that matter) as a sinner, for not keeping their own commandments of men, it is no commandment of God ( and if it was from God, it was strictly to the house of Israel that ceased to be by ink and stone tables but became in the heart through the Spirit)...




2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.





LoveGodsword: "Therefore the writer of Hebrews says it remains for the people of God to keep the sabbath - Hebrews 4:9. "



That is right LoveGodsword, you reveal your one and only verse of the entire Epistles on the keeping of the sabbath to remain.

If anyone reading has an ounce of stability in their mind, how can anyone fail to see you are clutching at straws, when your whole case rests on only one verse?

Yet, you have to interprete that verse, otherwise i cannot say what you would like it to state. A very poor weak and ungodly wayt o do preaching or to think that God leaves mans salvation down to yourself.




The first part to not miss ( I know you would prefer to miss this part) is how Israel failed by not having faith.

Israel sought as the SDA seek, not by faith, but by the works of the law.

Stumbling then at the stumbling stone, because all we are required to do, ( as so many know) is to believe in your heart unto righteousness and you are saved that way. This is the word of faith, which we preach, and the Jews and the SDA's way of teaching law and necessity, how is that also of faith...



Hebrews 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.





I do not care LoveGodsword, if you continue to dismiss all I say, as if it is not worth responding to,or to try to correct/ignore everything, it would be exactly the same if a man of Judaism were talking/discussing with me, about the faith of Jesus Christ. Faith is stronger than law, the same as light is way over the head of anyone in darkness, but in their darkness, they have learned their own ways, and reject need of light any more. ( that is why Judaism still rejects the faith of Christ and perversely prefers law, as do many others too as predicted and fulfilled)


Then, in a mans eyes, this of Hebrews 4:9, says the rest of sabbath is still relevent.

In Judaism they would be happy then, as the seventh day adventists are in support of their faithless religion, because theirs is on the same standing.

But away from both of them, the Christian who is in belief of liberty in Christ, sees differently. Thy see no added interpretations of wishful desperation ( which also judges Christian and even judged Jesus as a sinner) who think a sabbath rest remains.

What remains is, as exampled by Christ, as exampled by the Apostle Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, labouring to enter, just see the follow up proof that LoveGodsword, must ignore, and has nothing of his own of course showing this labouring in ACTION...





Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Acts 20:35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

1 Thessalonians 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.

Matthew 20:1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

James 5:4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.

Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Luke 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

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No not really dear friend but allow me to explain why from the scriptures if it may be helpful. It's not really that hard. According to the scriptures in the new testament. Sin is defined as the transgression of God's Law. According to James in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. Gods' 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what is is when broken. It is a simple as that really. There is no scripture in all of God's Word that says that Gods' 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break Gods' 4th commandment. Now in times of ignorance God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he expects all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24). According to the very Words of Jesus if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. This of course begs the question who do we believe and follow; God or man? This is the test that is coming to everyone of us. Gods' Word does not teach lawlessness therefore your teachings as shown above are not biblical.

Take Care.

"Gods' Word does not teach lawlessness therefore your teachings as shown above are not biblical."



Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

prophecy_uk said:

"Gods' Word does not teach lawlessness therefore your teachings as shown above are not biblical."



Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

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Sorry when the seed comes we are still not free to sin (transgress Gods' law). God's Word does not teach lawlessness. What do you think Matthew 9:12-13 means?

"(transgress Gods' law). God's Word does not teach lawlessness"



Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

For example, the Jews cannot keep the law and not transgress at the same time, as without the Holy Spirit, nobody can keep anything righteous, without sinning, this is the law, which is told,, is no of faith.

This is why, if the Son shall set us free, we shall be free indeed ( by the faith of Christ) and exampled to this whole world, not at all by the law in Judaism, they try to enter and cannot, without faith in unbelief....


Hebrews 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.




No deeds in the law justifies any person.

The righteousness of God without the law is manifested ( denied and resisted by satan)

It is the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ. This is upon all those that believe ( given by the faith of Jesus Christ to believe)

Then to the sinners ( in the law of sin and death before) they are justifi3ed freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ. God set Christ as a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare the righteousness of Christ ( to believe in and not in law that is death before) and Christ then being just, is the justifier of those who believe in Him.

Now we have the law of works, no, we have the law of faith. Concluded to be justified by faith, without the deeds of the law ( as the law worked wrath with no faith in Christ)..


Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Neogaia777 said:

Sin...

Might be taking a very grave risk or chance with your eternal life or soul, or be gambling with it, or playing Russian roulette with it, rolling the dice, or be playing with fire, etc, "maybe", etc, but all of us are also always doing this also, because none of us are sinlessly perfect, etc, and each time we sin we do this... I don't know how God is going to judge you, or me, or whomever, but messing around with any kind of sin could be taking a grave risk, possibly, etc...? I say "maybe" and "possibly", etc, because I don't know how God will judge you, or me or we or you or us, etc, but I just know that He will judge you/me/we/you/us... Sin also comes with consequences in this life, and whether or not those will carry over into or onto the next life, I do not know, because I don't know how God is going to judge you, most especially eternally, etc, but they (sin and sinning in this life) make for a miserable life in this life in the meantime, most of the time, etc...

But none of us knows how God is going to judge, only that He is going to, etc, He could hold one thing against one person, and not with another person, and vice-versa, and with more or less or different things, etc, and we don't know which one is which, not most especially eternally anyway, so I say it could be a gamble, or a risk, etc, sin might possibly be maybe, etc...

God Bless!

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Christians are already forgiven. We are already citizens of heaven. Our works are judged, not as if we were sinners but as believers. The picture is that of a prize giving ceremony. When God forgives, He forgets. That is the power of the blood of Jesus. It removes sin as if it never happened.

Sin has consequences in this life, yes. But we lose fellowship with God, not relationship. Restoring fellowship is as simple as confessing the sin. This is a fundamental that all Christians should know. Satan is the accuser of the brethren, not God. It is He that justifies us. Who is he that condemns? There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Righteousness is a gift, not something we earn or strive to get.

Once we are established in this truth, we can quit worrying about ourselves and get on with life. People who live in fear of doing the wrong thing often end up doing nothing. That is the point of the parable of the talents. The one talent man was afraid and buried his talent. God did not say, "You poor thing, never mind, you did your best". No, the Lord rebuked him, calling him wicked and lazy. Each servant was given talents according to his ability. God is not unfair and unjust. He demands nothing of us that He does not empower us to do.

prophecy_uk said:

"(transgress Gods' law). God's Word does not teach lawlessness"



Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

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No one is telling you to get your righteousness from law keeping so the scriptures you provide here are not relevant in our discussion here. According to the scriptures we cannot get our righteousness from keeping the law because all of us have sinned and fall short of God's glory according to the scriptures (see Romans 3:9-23).

Our forgiveness only comes from God's mercy and grace that we can only receive as a free gift from God that comes by faith alone in Gods' promise of forgiveness as we believe and follow what Gods' Word says. Now so you understand what I believe and there is no misunderstandings, according to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9.

As posted earlier, obedience to God's words are not how we are saved it is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of forgiveness and salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27; Romans 8:1-4; Hebrews 8:10-12. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. At the second coming Christs reward is with him *Revelation 22:12.

Once again dear friend, Gods' Word does not teach lawlessness (without law), for without law we have no knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7. I asked you earlier do you know what the meaning of Matthew 9:12-13 is which you did not answer. Do you know the meaning the words of Jesus in Matthew 9:12-13? This demonstrates the purpose of the law (God's 10 commandments) in the new covenant.

Take Care.

"Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10."





Yes look at the words in Romans 3:30-31, and for all people the law is established through faith.

It cant be establishing the law that is without faith, as that law was not established, as it could not be, because it is the law of works.

But, what is established is told just earlier in the passage, it is the LAW OF FAITH..


Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.




Look at Romans 13 by all means, it is not speaking about the law of works, it is only speaking of the law of faith, ( the previous law of works is not of faith and cannot be taught, as it was without faith)


These are not taught to be kept, this is known in the heart by all who know that love is the fulfilling of the law, that is through the faith of Jesus Christ only, it is not in the Jewish law keeping religion, nor any similar man made religion that teaches law ( and words it any way they think is acceptable when it is not faith at all),,

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.




The law is our own righteousness by law keeping ( is that not the religion of Judaism and always has been?)

Now there is a separate way ( narrow and hidden, which needs faith given to be revealed) and it is solely through the faith of Christ, ( never was mans faith) it is the righteousness which is of God by faith ( His faith, His righteousness) to know Christ, in the power ( belief) of His resurrection, the fellowship of His sufferings, being made the same as His death ( this is all the faith of Christ and is how you approach to the Father) and alive to righteousness is when you understand, all without faith still do all of those works of the flesh, even though they say they do not, because no one who teaches to not break the law, can keep the law, they teach letter, which is death, and not faith at all..


Philemon 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Romans 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

Neogaia777 said:

Sin.Might be taking a very grave risk or chance with your eternal life or soul, or be gambling with it, or playing Russian roulette with it, rolling the dice, or be playing with fire, etc, "maybe", etc, but all of us are also always doing this also, because none of us are sinlessly perfect, etc, and each time we sin we do this... I don't know how God is going to judge you, or me, or whomever, but messing around with any kind of sin could be taking a grave risk, possibly, etc...? I say "maybe" and "possibly", etc, because I don't know how God will judge you, or me or we or you or us, etc, but I just know that He will judge you/me/we/you/us... Sin also comes with consequences in this life, and whether or not those will carry over into or onto the next life, I do not know, because I don't know how God is going to judge you, most especially eternally, etc, but they (sin and sinning in this life) make for a miserable life in this life in the meantime, most of the time, etc...

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I can help you out. We are all guilty.
This explains that:

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,