Yes he did. And those that believe won't perish. Those that don't believe don't have eternal life.
Oh. The problem is that faith is a "gift thing"; the faith that we have in God involves both knowledge, the object of that faith, and the abilty to believe that knowledge to be true. And that ability, to believe, for example, that Christ died for our sins and was ressurected from the dead some 2000 yrs ago simply requires grace, even as it also involves my will. So God must draw and move our hearts towards Himself and yet will not override our wills to do so; we can always say "no" to Him. Calvinism has it wrong.
They've now entered a state of justice, the state that man was made for, of fellowship/communion with God, the state that Adam basically forfeited in his bid for autonmy from Him. And it's a state that we can forfeit ourselves all over again. We mock God unless we now remain and grow in the seed of righteousness He implants in us at justification with the indwelling of the Spirit. There are many verses in Scripture concerning this-we must consider all of them, along with the historic understanding of the church and early fathers. Salvation is spoken of in Scripture in more than one tense-and the Church as aleays understood this quite well:
Actually, there are quite a few. You have but to read the Scriptures. Let’s see:
Man was not created to be imperfect, to sin IOW. So there must be something wrong, something missing in him. And that something is God, Himself, with whom all things are possible. So, yes, man will ultimately achieve his perfection, his teleos, at the hands of God providing we remain in Him even as that process won't be completed until the next life. And man's will is, at God's discretion according to His wisdom, intrinsically involved in that process.
Yes!! But also it's not a pretend or imputed rightouenss-it's the real thing. And yet we still sin. And this is precsely where grace and the will of man meet, where salvation is worked out together with he who works in us, where man must do good and put to death the deeds of the flesh, more expected from those given more in terms of whaterver: grace revelation/knowledge, oppotunity, time, intelligence, maturity, background, etc. God knows the heart of man far better than we do.
Actually, it does. Notice that in verse 22, the third soil “becomes unfruitful”. And John 15:2 says that every branch “in Me” (that is, in Christ) that does not bear fruit, He takes away. Verse 6 goes on to say that any unfruitful branch is removed and cast into the fire (Hell).
You are terribly misreading John 10:28. Jesus gives eternal life to believers. And says that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.
Right. Those that don't believer never got eternal life because they never believed.
Right. Unbelievers have NEVER believed and obviously reject the Son.
Your choice of words is childish.
Well, it's not. Believing is NOT a gift. Believing comes from the heart, not God. Rom 10:10.
This obviousy refers to progressive sanctification, or the present tense of salvation, and is spiritual maturity.
The problem with your view is that in NONE of these warnings do we find anything about losing salvation. If salvation could be lost, Jesus would NEVER have said John 10:28 AND there would be at least 1 very clear verse stating that.
I'll just bet you can't prove your claim.
That changes nothing. My example could be about anything.
Not true at all. They knew exactly what Jesus meant. Go through the Pentateuch and see how many times the words "cut off" were used.
This is impossible because man is BORN spiritually dead. There's no way to spiritually die AGAIN. If there were, there would be a verse. Once being born again, that new birth CANNOT DIE.
OH, so Jesus LIED in John 5:24 then??
Quote Scripture. I don't believe you.
There is NO WAY for a born again person, who HAS eternal life, to die again.
Who says mental assent is "passise". That might be your own opinion, but it's wrong.
yep. And NONE of the warnings contain anything about losing salvation.
The "there must be something wrong" gives away your own flawed opinions. Who says something must be wrong?
Huh? Are you suggesting that God was "missing in him"? Absurd.
No, only believers, not "man" will reach perfection. But not in this lifetime. Only when they step into eternity without their sin nature.
I know you're only trying to cheapen the idea of eternal security, but Jesus clearly taught it from John 5:24 and John 10:28. Like it or not.
Why would anyone assume/presume that means loss of salvation.
You are simply spiritualize Jesus' metaphor to fit your own unbiblical theology.
Yet there's plenty of verse saying if you don't believe ( present tense) you don't have eternal life.
Hmm. You must have skipped over it, since it was right in the middle (not that all of them didn’t say so), but let me repeat one verse out of those.
Since both terms can be used interchangeably, this is a matter of hair-splitting at this point IMO -and I'm not sure the reason why. A basic concept of the faith is that man (Adam) broke relationship with God, whatever that relationship consisted of, by a willful act of disobedeince. He had become his own "god" for all practical purposes, having appropriated the authority to determine right and wrong for himself-and God allowed him the freedom to do just that-with the consequences that followed. Man had dis-fellowshipped, excommunicated himself from God-it can be stated in many ways. And that separation is the basis of man's death. And that separation is the reason we don't know God from birth now, the personal knowledge spoken of in Jer 31:34, John 17:3, John's 1 letter, etc. Man is lost. Jesus came to reconcile man with God, first of all by revealing His true "face" so that we may know Him, and by knowing Him we may believe in, hope in, and, most importantly, come to love Him. Relationship/fellowship restored-and brought to an even higher level yet.
Sure, until one reads the rest of Scripture.
Ok, although the passage says otherwise.
Of course, the virtues of faith, hope, and love, and man's particaption in accepting and expressing those gifts, are not part of salvation.
No, I read what Christ said explicitly. He said that any branch that is “IN HIM” that does not produce fruit will be “CUT OFF FROM HIM” and thrown into the fire. To be cut off from the tree (Jesus, the LIFE) is to be cut off from Heaven (where there will be no more death). And to be thrown into the fire is to be thrown into Hell (the second death).
Several?? Rather than just say you did, please do it again.
