Are non-Jewish Christians commanded to keep the 7th Day Sabbath

parousia70 said:

You know I mean Breaking bread as in gathering on Sunday for communion service just as the apostles did. The weren’t going to McDonald’s.
Let’s at least be honest about it.



Well, it’s clear you reject the notion that the Day Christ rose from the dead (which wasn’t Saturday) is the most Holy day in all of history.
That part is clear.

And you reject the apostolic testimony about Sunday gathering to celebrate that Holiest of all days.
That’s clear too.

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Indeed so. All references to breaking bread in the Epistles and Acts and the Apocalypse are Eucharistic, and all other references to bread and wine elsewhere in scripture have a Eucharistic typological prophecy (for example, the libations and shewbread in the Temple).

bbbbbbb said:

You are being much too kind here. I doubt his feelings are the prime reason he finds Sunday worship so deeply offensive. He can correct me if I am mistaken, but he has wholeheartedly embraced the SDA (read that Ellen White's) assertion that Sunday worship is a mortal sin and is the Mark of the Beast.

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Wait - does EGW actually teach THAT?

I have read compelling articles from numerous scholars identifying the Beast with Nero; it would make sense for St. John to refer to him in code, in this case, Hebrew numerals, since it was he who initiated the Roman persecution of Christians, had St. Peter and Paul killed, and destroyed the Temple.

bbbbbbb said:

Isaac. Abraham was the father of Isaac and Isaac was the father of Jacob, later named Israel.

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Indeed so.

Der Alte said:

Do you not understand why this is a patently false statement? Non-Sabbatarians have a Sabbath rest and communion time with our Savior on the day that our Savior resurrected. I can remember a time that virtually all businesses were closed on Sunday. In the 40s my hometown had 4 drug stores only one could be open on Sunday so people could get their prescriptions.

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You were so lucky to be alive in 1940s America. If you gave me a time machine I think I’d set the dial for the day before VJ day, so I could start with the festivities, then spend the rest of the decade travelling on streamliners, Pullmans and the other fabulous passenger trains we used to have, om streetcars and interurbans, and oceanliners.

By the way, I would like to wish a blessed Sunday to everyone! I hope everyone who wishes experience beautiful service of Morning Prayer or the Eucharist. @klutedavid @Der Alte @parousia70 @bbbbbbb

By the way Parousia, OT question, but are you as upset as I am about Traditiones Custodes? And if so, have any restrictions been imposed in your area?

The Liturgist said:

And also rested in the tomb after dying for us on the Cross.

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Yes, amen.
Here's a curious translation in reference to the first day of the week. (Sunday) = the Lord's Day = the Queen of days) Note the phrase "first of the sabbaths"

Matthew 28:1 Young's Literal Translation
And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

Mark 16:9 Young's Literal Translation
And he, having risen in the morning of the first of the sabbaths, did appear first to Mary the Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven demons;

Luke 24:1 Young's Literal Translation
And on the first of the sabbaths, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices they made ready, and certain [others] with them,

John 20:1 Young's Literal Translation
And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene doth come early (there being yet darkness) to the tomb, and she seeth the stone having been taken away out of the tomb,

John 20:19 Young's Literal Translation
It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having been shut where the disciples were assembled, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith to them, `Peace to you;'

Saint Steven said:

Yes, amen.
Here's a curious translation in reference to the first day of the week. (Sunday) = the Lord's Day = the Queen of days) Note the phrase "first of the sabbaths"

Matthew 28:1 Young's Literal Translation
And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

Mark 16:9 Young's Literal Translation
And he, having risen in the morning of the first of the sabbaths, did appear first to Mary the Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven demons;

Luke 24:1 Young's Literal Translation
And on the first of the sabbaths, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices they made ready, and certain [others] with them,

John 20:1 Young's Literal Translation
And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene doth come early (there being yet darkness) to the tomb, and she seeth the stone having been taken away out of the tomb,

John 20:19 Young's Literal Translation
It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having been shut where the disciples were assembled, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith to them, `Peace to you;'

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What does this have to do with Jesus giving a new commandment about Sunday worship? Nothing

Mary still kept the Sabbath according to the commandment that is not deleted in the New Testament

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

There is no scripture saying the Lords day is the first day. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath Mark 2:28 which is the seventh day and the seventh day is the only day in the entire Bible that is holy to our Lord and Savior. Exodus 20:10, Genesis 2:1-3, Isaiah 58:13, Isaiah 66:23

You are trying hard to make scripture say what it plainly does not. We have free will, but you cannot change the will of our Savior which is the same for us in heaven as it is on this earth. Isaiah 66:23

Instead of trying to find missing text that is not there in scripture, its better to embrace the truth about what happened to God’s Sabbath. The Roman Catholic Church are proud they made this change without scripture authority, Just a few quotes…

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope.
—Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950.

A. They should, if the Scripture were their only rule, wash the feet of one another, according to the command of Christ, in the 13th chap. of St. John; —they should keep, not the Sunday, but the Saturday, according to the commandment, "Remember thou keep holy the SABBATH-day;" for this commandment has not, in Scripture, been changed or abrogated;...
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 101 Imprimatuer

Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174

Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
—Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50


Q. Must not a sensible Protestant doubt seriously, when he finds that even the Bible is not followed as a rule by his co-religionists?
A. Surely, when he sees them baptize infants, abrogate the Jewish Sabbath, and observe Sunday for which [pg. 7] there is no Scriptural authority; when he finds them neglect to wash one another's feet, which is expressly commanded, and eat blood and things strangled, which are expressly prohibited in Scripture. He must doubt, if he think at all. ...
Q. Should not the Protestant doubt when he finds that he himself holds tradition as a guide?
A. Yes, if he would but reflect that he has nothing but Catholic Tradition for keeping the Sunday holy; ...
—Controversial Catechism by Stephen Keenan, New Edition, revised by Rev. George Cormack, published in London by Burns & Oates, Limited - New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benzinger Brothers, 1896, pages 6, 7.

The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.
—The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.

Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God... The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.'
—Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

The Liturgist said:

Indeed, I am frustrated at people claiming my arguments are somehow against God. It seems to amount to an ad hominem fallacy.

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If your arguments are against scripture then they are against God.

Saint Steven said:

Yes, amen.
Here's a curious translation in reference to the first day of the week. (Sunday) = the Lord's Day = the Queen of days) Note the phrase "first of the sabbaths"

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There is no scripture that says that Revelation 1:10 "the Lords day" is Sunday or the first day of the week. So, What day is the "Lords day" according to the scriptures?

Matthew 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD OF THE SABBATH DAY.

Saint Steven said:

Matthew 28:1 Young's Literal Translation
And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

Mark 16:9 Young's Literal Translation
And he, having risen in the morning of the first of the sabbaths, did appear first to Mary the Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven demons;

Luke 24:1 Young's Literal Translation
And on the first of the sabbaths, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices they made ready, and certain [others] with them,

John 20:1 Young's Literal Translation
And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene doth come early (there being yet darkness) to the tomb, and she seeth the stone having been taken away out of the tomb,

John 20:19 Young's Literal Translation
It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having been shut where the disciples were assembled, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith to them, `Peace to you;'

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Perhaps this might be helpful. The Greek word σαββάτων sabbaton is translated also as week in the Greek. The KJV and the majority of translations, translates the Greek not as first of the sabbaths but as first day of the week.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4521
σάββατον (sábbaton | sab'-bat-on)
Derivation: of Hebrew origin (H7676);
Strong's: the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications' sabbath (day), week.

Greek
[1] οψέ δε σαββάτων (G4521) τη επιφωσκούση εις μίαν (first) σαββάτων (G4521) ήλθεG2064 ΜαρίαG* ηG3588 ΜαγδαληνήG* καιG2532 ηG3588 άλληG243 ΜαρίαG* θεωρήσαιG2334 τονG3588 τάφονG5028

New International Version
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

English Standard Version
Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

Berean Study Bible
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

New American Standard Bible
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the tomb.

NASB 1995
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

NASB 1977
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

Amplified Bible
Now after the Sabbath, near dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

Christian Standard Bible
After the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to view the tomb.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
After the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to view the tomb.

Contemporary English Version
The Sabbath was over, and it was almost daybreak on Sunday when Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

Good News Translation
After the Sabbath, as Sunday morning was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
After the day of worship, as the sun rose Sunday morning, Mary from Magdala and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

International Standard Version
After the Sabbaths, around dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to take a look at the burial site.

NET Bible
Now after the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

King James Bible
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

New King James Version
Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

King James 2000 Bible
At the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

New Heart English Bible
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

World English Bible
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

American King James Version
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

American Standard Version
Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

A Faithful Version
Now late on the Sabbath, as the first day of the weeks was drawing near, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to observe the sepulcher.

Darby Bible Translation
Now late on sabbath, as it was the dusk of the next day after sabbath, came Mary of Magdala and the other Mary to look at the sepulchre.

English Revised Version
Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Webster's Bible Translation
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

Geneva Bible of 1587
Now in the end of the Sabbath, when the first day of ye weeke began to dawne, Marie Magdalene, and the other Marie came to see the sepulchre,

Bishops' Bible of 1568
In the later ende of the Sabboth day, whiche dawneth the first daye of the weke, came Marie Magdalen, and the other Marie, to see the sepulchre.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
The Sabboth daye at even which dauneth the morowe after the Sabboth Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to se the sepulcre.

Literal Standard Version
Now after [the] Sabbaths, it being dawn, toward the first [day] of the weeks, Mary the Magdalene came, and the other Mary, to see the grave,

Berean Literal Bible
And after the Sabbaths, it being dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

Literal Emphasis Translation
And after the Sabbath, it being dawn unto the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the tomb.

Douay-Rheims Bible
AND in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But on the eve of the Sabbath, when the first of the week was dawning, Maryam Magdalitha and the other Maryam came to see the tomb.

Lamsa Bible
IN the evening of the sabbath day, when the first day of the week began, there came Mary of Magdala and the other Mary, to see the tomb.

Anderson New Testament
And after the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the sepulcher.

Haweis New Testament
NOW after the eve of the sabbath, as the light was dawning, towards the first day of the week, Mary Magdalen had come, and the other Mary, to view the sepulchre.

Mace New Testament
The sabbath being over, and the first day of the week beginning to dawn, Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, came to see the sepulchre.

Weymouth New Testament
After the Sabbath, in the early dawn of the first day of the week, Mary of Magdala and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre.

Worsley New Testament
Now after the sabbath, in the dawning towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, to look at the sepulchre:

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That said, the week of Christs death was a week where the annual feast days started. A high Sabbath (John 19:31), is a Sabbath where the annual Feast coincides with a weekly Sabbath. At this time it was the week of the annual feast of Passover and Unleavened bread which started on the "seventh day" Sabbath of God's 4th commandment the day which Jesus died (the paschal lamp was slain prior to the start of the Passover/Unleavened bread). There was three sabbaths that weekend. Passover and the Seventh day Sabbath on Friday night to Saturday night and Feast of First fruits on Christ resurrection day. Jesus fulfilled the Passover sacrifice which pointed to him *1 Corinthians 5:7 and and the fulfilled the Feast of First fruits rising from the grave on Sunday (Saturday evening to Sunday evening)

Take care.

parousia70 said:

You know I mean Breaking bread as in gathering on Sunday for communion service just as the apostles did. The weren’t going to McDonald’s.
Let’s at least be honest about it.

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There are only a couple of instances communion is mentioned none of which coincide with Sunday worship.

Well, it’s clear you reject the notion that the Day Christ rose from the dead (which wasn’t Saturday) is the most Holy day in all of history.
That part is clear.

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The scripture does not tell us it was the holiest day, so we should not teach it. .

And you reject the apostolic testimony about Sunday gathering to celebrate that Holiest of all days.
That’s clear too.

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No mention of this anywhere in Scripture and that IS CLEAR.

LoveGodsWord said:

If your arguments are against scripture then they are against God.

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And if I may if one can not prove it through the Bible alone one should be silent lest they be silenced.

HIM said:

And if I may if one can not prove it through the Bible alone one should be silent lest they be silenced.

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Indeed thank you. Gods' Word silences all as it is the only standard of truth that we should believe and follow Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

LoveGodsWord said:

Indeed. Your talking to the converted.

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Yes one with the Word, God's law, His Spirit in their heart and mind. This is the faith in which we preach. And Faith cometh by hearing and hearing cometh by the Word, the Law that has been placed in our in our hearts and minds.

Saint Steven said:

Not sure if this has come up yet. If the Sabbath command comes from the TCs, what are we told about the TCs in the NT? Assuming they were engraved in letters on stone, here's what we have...

The TCs were the transitory ministry that brought condemnation and death that has no glory now. The letter kills. (Galatians 3:23-25)

2 Corinthians 3:6-11 NIV
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

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Thanks for this. You know, I've read that passage many times and have never focused on the phrase, "engraved in letters on stone". That, and the reference to the face of Moses, now make it clear to me that Paul was speaking of the ten commandments themselves. And he calls them "the ministry that brought condemnation", and "transitory". For an observant Jew such as him to say that is almost mind-bending.

ChetSinger said:

Thanks for this. You know, I've read that passage many times and have never focused on the phrase, "engraved in letters on stone". That, and the reference to the face of Moses, now make it clear to me that Paul was speaking of the ten commandments themselves. And he calls them "the ministry that brought condemnation", and "transitory". For an observant Jew such as him to say that is almost mind-bending.

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God's Law, His Word went from parchment and tables stone to the fleshly tables of the heart. We went from obeying because we have to. To doing because we want to through the changed heart through Christ.

ChetSinger said:

Thanks for this. You know, I've read that passage many times and have never focused on the phrase, "engraved in letters on stone". That, and the reference to the face of Moses, now make it clear to me that Paul was speaking of the ten commandments themselves. And he calls them "the ministry that brought condemnation", and "transitory". For an observant Jew such as him to say that is almost mind-bending.

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responded to by...

HIM said:

God's Law, His Word went from parchment and tables stone to the fleshly tables of the heart. We went from obeying because we have to. To doing because we want to through the changed heart through Christ.

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Yep good response @HIM. Not sure why people get confused here thinking 2 Corinthians 3 is talking about abolishing Gods 10 commandments. It is the ministration of the letter that killeth that brings condemnation and death that is being abolished through the ministration of the Spirit, because the only purpose of God's law in the letter is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. It is the ministration of the letter of the law that shows us that we are all sinners in need of God's mercy, grace, forgiveness and salvation because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and the wages of sin is death *Romans 3:9-20; Romans 6:23. It is the ministration of the Spirit in God's new covenant promise that brings forgiveness and newness of life that is being discussed in 2 Corinthians 3 and the passing of the ministration of the letter of death and condemnation with the ministration of the Spirit of God's grace and forgiveness that is being discussed here, not the abolishing of God's 10 commandments which Paul says elsewhere are holy just and good *Romans 7:12 because it gives us a knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7. An interpretation of these scriptures to God's 10 commandments being abolished pretty much contradicts the whole bible and has Paul contradicting Paul when he says elsewhere that faith does not abolish Gods' law it establishes Gods' law in Romans 3:31 and again in Romans 13:8-10 where Paul says we love our neighbor as our self by being obedient to those laws in God's 10 commandments that show us our duty of love to our fellow man. Indeed the ministration of the Spirit is greater the than the ministration of the letter because while the letter brings death the Spirit brings life. The ministration of the letter bring condemnation and death while the ministration of the Spirit writes the law on the heart by faith that works by love which is Gods' new covenant promise in all those who have been born again to believe and follow God's Word and walk in newness of life *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 6:1-23.

God bless

HIM said:

Then in verse 29 Jesus says, Immediately after the tribulation of those days..."
What days?
The days Jesus just spoke about and said for us to pray

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He told US this?
I don’t see you or me included in the audience of people Jesus was addressing in Matthew 24:3, do you?
At what point in the chapter does the “you” become people other than the disciples He was addressing, and how do you say the disciples would know that when Jesus looked directly at them and said “then you will”, “when you see”, “you shall be”, etc.. He in fact did NOT mean them the way you claim He didn’t?

that our flight not be in the winter nor on the Sabbath Day. Which would be the destruction of the Temple.

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He told them to pray that their flight would not be in winter, etc, not us.

And they did flee, as their mater instructed, and the Temple was destroyed, on time, as prophesied.

LoveGodsWord said:

Not sure why people get confused here thinking 2 Corinthians 3 is talking about abolishing Gods 10 commandments.

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I find that an interesting denominational-specific response, because that's exactly what Paul's doing: calling the ten commandments "transitory". It shows that denominations can read the same scripture and teach completely different conclusions.

.

LoveGodsWord said:

Therefore your argument is only with yourself here. Isaac is the seed of Abraham who is the father of Israel. I think you missed the point of what the scriptures are saying here. In Romans 9:6-8 Paul is saying that just because you are born of the seed of Abraham does not make one Israel, they are not all Israel that are of Israel.

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The contrast is there, this idea that it's only about the flesh is only half right. Paul is appealing to a more ancient precedent found in scripture. Hebrews does the same thing for the priesthood, there the author is pointing towards a more ancient priesthood of Melchizedek.

Also you're only half right about "your argument is only with yourself here" too, because the points I'm making are flying right over the top of your head.

No need to continue, I may as well just be writing to myself.