Are non-Jewish Christians commanded to keep the 7th Day Sabbath

LoveGodsWord · Sep 24, 2021

The Liturgist said:
In the post which my post is responding to I thought. I mean, it looks like you were very strongly suggesting that Sunday worship is somehow against the commandments of God.

No. As posted earlier we should worship God everyday of the week as the early disciples did in Acts of the Apostles 2:46-47. This of course did not make every day a holy day of rest as they continued to keep Gods' 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath according to Gods' 4th commandment. There is no scripture in all of Gods' Word that says Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. Yet this teaching has led many to forget Gods' 4th commandment. God looking down the ages knew this would happen and starts off the 4th commandment by saying "REMEMBER" the Sabbath day to keep it holy *Exodus 20:8. It is not Sunday worship that is the problem. The problem is breaking God's 4th commandment and the teaching from many Church's thinking that Sunday worship replaces Gods' 4th commandment. There is no scripture for this teaching which has led many either knowingly or unknowingly away from God and His Word. According to Jesus if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us to break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God. If this is the case the question that must be considered is who are we really worshiping if we follow the man-made teaching and tradition of Sunday worship while breaking God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; God or man? This is the testing question that will come to all of us before the second coming and why it is written; Fear God therefore and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. -Revelation 14:7

Take Care

LoveGodsWord · Sep 24, 2021

The Liturgist said:
Why should I? Others have already posted counter-rebuttals, which I agreed with.

Check again there were no counter rebuttals to the rebuttal of the OP (OP rebuttal here linked). Maybe you would like to provide one?

LoveGodsWord · Sep 24, 2021

The Liturgist said:
I have the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who is the Word of God, who is the fulfillment of the Law.

As I have argued in another thread and will continue to argue, Sacred Scripture is not the Word of God; the Word of God, according to Sacred Scripture, is Jesus Christ, God Incarnate.

This discussion is by the way incredibly ironic to me, to the point of being amusing, because I actually lead a worship service on Saturdays . I support worship on Saturday as well as Sunday. So in theory, no Adventist should have any objection to me on those grounds, yet I am being judged on the basis of my supposed non-observance of Sabbaths on which I conduct worship services.

As I have said repeatedly, I believe that church services should be held at a minimum on Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and it is spiritually healthy for Christians to attend as many of those as possible.

The gospel according to the scriptures is the good news of Gods' Word. No one can claims to believe to have the gospel according to the scriptures unless they believe and follow what the gospel says. Leading a worship service on Saturdays does not mean that someone is keeping the Sabbath holy according to the scriptures if they continue buying and selling and conducting their business activities when we are told not to do this according to the scriptures. The Sabbath starts and continues from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset according to the scriptures and Gods' time. The Sabbath commandment is for a complete full day *Exodus 20:8-11; Genesis 1:5; Leviticus 23:32

Take Care.

The Liturgist · Sep 24, 2021

parousia70 said:
Rather, it's a quite common claim.
How Is The Mark Of The Beast Sunday Worship?
Mark Of The Beast And Sunday Worship
AmightyWind Ministries | Sunday Worship Mark of the beast
The Sabbath and the Mark of the Beast | Sabbath Truth
Do Sunday Worshippers Go To Hell

No one is saying we must Disregard Saturday.
No one.

First, Sunday Worship is a separate issue from the sabbath.

Let me repeat that since it doesn't seem to be getting across:

Sunday Worship is a separate issue from the sabbath.

Sunday worship of Jesus has nothing to do with the Jewish Saturday Sabbath.
Nothing.

Do I need to repeat that as well?
Let's hope not.

Let's hope you now understand that It is a separate celebration day altogether, created by Jesus when he rose from the dead on Sunday. Christians from the beginning chose that day to be a special day of worship of the risen Lord.

The early Christians ADDED a Sunday day of worship to honor the Lord's Resurrection Day --- which was Sunday. The Church's 2000-year custom of honoring the Lord's Resurrection on the Lord's Resurrection day should never be despised. Why would anyone want to despise the day of celebration of the Lord's Resurrection Day? The most consequential and Holy day IN ALL OF HISTORY. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Next, about this *separate issue* of the commandment to keep the sabbath holy. Sabbath simply means "rest"; it does not mean "Saturday." Honoring the sabbath is not attached uniquely to Saturday. That was the Jewish custom, but that was merely a custom. As to the Jewish customs, they were no longer binding upon Christ's church (Acts 15 all).

Both scripture and early church history demonstrate clearly that honoring the Day of Christ's resurrection is the apostolic practice. You deny the scriptural record about gathering on Sundays and refuse the historical proof that Sunday was observed by the early apostolic churches.

The apostles churches had the custom of gathering on Sunday to celebrate that unique day of God's resurrection from the dead in Christ Jesus. This is seen both in scripture *and in all historic witness.* It is indisputably the historic practice of the early Christians.

The unanimous testimony of history records that the church that originated in the first century was a Sunday observing church.

They celebrated Sunday because it was the day of all days, The Lord Jesus' Resurrection Day. They did not celebrate Sunday for any other reason. Nor did they say that this Sunday celebration changed Saturday. What changed how Christians view Saturday is found here (Colossians 2:16-17), here (Acts 15:5-11,24-29, here (Romans 14), here (Hebews 10:1), and here (Matthew 12:1-12).

Sunday observance was practiced always and everywhere by the historic christians and was not questioned until a little sect called the SDAs appear in 1860, about 18 centuries after Jesus founded His one sect.

The SDA and its unique denial of the Lord's Resurrection Day originates with Ellen G White and Captain Joseph Bates following the Great Disappointment of 1844---a failed endtimes movement that reformed itself as the SDA.

This is an extremely important point. Because the SDA regards Ellen G White as an infallible prophet, scripture is interpreted according to her doctrines. For example, there is no scriptural basis for saying Jesus Christ is the Archangel Michael, yet there is a scriptural basis for saying the phrase “Word of God” refers to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and not Scripture, yet these points are not acknowledged.

The belief in Ellen G White is a central dogma, to the extent that while on numerous occasions I have presented proof that she made some fundamental mistakes regarding church history in The Great Controversy, it has always been ignored, and I have also never encountered, to my own Great Disappointment, any liberal adventists who reject the status of EGW, or even an Adventist who will say what writings of EGW are their least favorite. And this experience is not one unique to me. There have been very well documented and substantiated claims of plagiarism on the part of EGW, for example.

Now, the worst part of all of this, is that I wouldn’t even care - I wish we who are not Sabbatarians could come to an understanding with Sabbatarian members not to debate these controversial points, so that we could instead focus on issues of mutual concern to all Christians, like the persecution of Christians in the Middle East, the increasing persecution of Christians in first world nations and by Hindu Nationalists in India, and Communists elsewhere, the need to outlaw abortion and Euthanasia, the need to promote sexual morality, and other critical issues.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 24, 2021

The Liturgist said:
This is an extremely important point. Because the SDA regards Ellen G White as an infallible prophet, scripture is interpreted according to her doctrines. For example, there is no scriptural basis for saying Jesus Christ is the Archangel Michael, yet there is a scriptural basis for saying the phrase “Word of God” refers to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and not Scripture, yet these points are not acknowledged.

The belief in Ellen G White is a central dogma, to the extent that while on numerous occasions I have presented proof that she made some fundamental mistakes regarding church history in The Great Controversy, it has always been ignored, and I have also never encountered, to my own Great Disappointment, any liberal adventists who reject the status of EGW, or even an Adventist who will say what writings of EGW are their least favorite. And this experience is not one unique to me. There have been very well documented and substantiated claims of plagiarism on the part of EGW, for example.

Now, the worst part of all of this, is that I wouldn’t even care - I wish we who are not Sabbatarians could come to an understanding with Sabbatarian members not to debate these controversial points, so that we could instead focus on issues of mutual concern to all Christians, like the persecution of Christians in the Middle East, the increasing persecution of Christians in first world nations and by Hindu Nationalists in India, and Communists elsewhere, the need to outlaw abortion and Euthanasia, the need to promote sexual morality, and other critical issues.

Oh here we go. Quick lets find something else to talk about they are talking scripture again so lets quickly change the topic because we have no scripture to support our teachings. We should not be afraid to come to the light of God's Word as Gods' Word is the light that shines the way when the road is dark and narrow. If our lamp goes out all we have is the darkness.

The Liturgist · Sep 24, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
The gospel according to the scriptures is the good news of Gods' Word. No one can claims to believe to have the gospel according to the scriptures unless they believe and follow what the gospel says. Leading a worship service on Saturdays does not mean that someone is keeping the Sabbath holy according to the scriptures if they continue buying and selling and conducting their business activities when we are told not to do this according to the scriptures.

The Ten Commandments do not say anything about buying or selling being a violation of the Sabbath. That is rather part of the Law, and in Galatians, St. Paul makes it absolutely clear that we are no longer under the Law.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 24, 2021

The Liturgist said:
The Ten Commandments do not say anything about buying or selling being a violation of the Sabbath. That is rather part of the Law, and in Galatians, St. Paul makes it absolutely clear that we are no longer under the Law.

Buying and selling is secular work that the commandment is talking about that we should be resting from. It is business that many use to earn a living from.

Exodus 20:8-11
[8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY.
[9], SIX DAYS SHALL YOU LABOR, AND DO ALL YOUR WORK:
[10], BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD: IN IT YOU SHALL NOT DO ANY WORK, YOU, NOR YOUR SON, NOR YOUR DAUGHTER, YOUR MANSERVANT, NOR YOUR MAIDSERVANT, NOR YOUR CATTLE, NOR YOUR STRANGER THAT IS WITHIN YOUR GATES:
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Take Care

The Liturgist · Sep 24, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Oh here we go. Quick lets find something else to talk about they are talking scripture again so lets quickly change the topic because we have no scripture to support our teachings. We should not be afraid to come to the light of God's Word as Gods' Word is the light that shines the way when the road is dark and narrow. If our lamp goes out all we have is the darkness.

I do have some Scripture to share: the Gospel According to John, and the Epistles of St. Paul, and the Epistle to the Hebrews. In their entirety.

The Liturgist · Sep 24, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Buying and selling is secular work that the commandment is talking about that we should be resting from. It is business that many use to earn a living from.

The commandment doesn’t say anything about that. It says “Honor the Sabbath and Keep it Holy.” So even if we concede the Decalogue is binding on Christians, as opposed to the Summary of the Law provided by our Lord Jesus Christ, and many do believe that, so I am prepared to accept that idea, the Decalogue itself does not specify how we are to honor the sabbath and keep it Holy. And indeed, our Lord did things on the Sabbath that scandalized the Pharisees, on the justification that it was made for men, not vice versa.

So, since we are no longer under the Mosaic law, it is clear that Christians have broad latitude when it comes to how they are to honor the Sabbath and keep it Holy, assuming they are even required to do that. @Der Alte has presented a compelling scriptural argument that I see no viable refutations of to the extent that we are not.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 24, 2021

The Liturgist said:
I do have some Scripture to share: the Gospel According to John, and the Epistles of St. Paul, and the Epistle to the Hebrews. In their entirety.

Well share it. Where is the scripture that says Gods 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day of rest?

LoveGodsWord · Sep 24, 2021

The Liturgist said:
The commandment doesn’t say anything about that. It says “Honor the Sabbath and Keep it Holy.” So even if we concede the Decalogue is binding on Christians, as opposed to the Summary of the Law provided by our Lord Jesus Christ, and many do believe that, so I am prepared to accept that idea, the Decalogue itself does not specify how we are to honor the sabbath and keep it Holy. And indeed, our Lord did things on the Sabbath that scandalized the Pharisees, on the justification that it was made for men, not vice versa.

So, since we are no longer under the Mosaic law, it is clear that Christians have broad latitude when it comes to how they are to honor the Sabbath and keep it Holy, assuming they are even required to do that. @Der Alte has presented a compelling scriptural argument that I see no viable refutations of to the extent that we are not.

Sure it does. What is "your work" in Exodus 20:9?

Exodus 20:8-11
[8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY.
[9], SIX DAYS SHALL YOU LABOR, AND DO ALL YOUR WORK:
[10], BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD: IN IT YOU SHALL NOT DO ANY WORK, YOU, NOR YOUR SON, NOR YOUR DAUGHTER, YOUR MANSERVANT, NOR YOUR MAIDSERVANT, NOR YOUR CATTLE, NOR YOUR STRANGER THAT IS WITHIN YOUR GATES:
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

"YOUR WORK" includes all business, all buying and selling (business transactions), all domestic work, all cooking and cleaning, etc. However it is alright according to Jesus to do good on the Sabbath (see Matthew 12:1-12).

........

We are talking about God's law. That is God's 10 commandments written by the finger of God and the work of God alone *Exodus 31:18; Exodus 32:16 written on two tables of stone that in the new covenant give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7. Not the Mosaic book of the covenant written by Moses much of which were shadows of things to come in the new covenant *Hebrews 10:1-22.

Take Care

Norbert L · Sep 24, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Your response...

I only asked you if you have only been provided scripture how can the scriptures shared with you bear false witness to which you were accusing me of doing. So I asked you the question how then can Gods' Word bear false witness against Gods' Word when God's Word bears witness to the truth? To me that does not make any sense. That is why I asked you the question. I was seeking clarification because what you were claiming did not make sense to me.

Take Care.

Your position is that unless gentiles keep the seventh day sabbath, they cannot be saved, is it not?

LoveGodsWord · Sep 24, 2021

Norbert L said:
Your position is that unless gentiles keep the seventh day sabbath, they cannot be saved, is it not?

No. According to the scriptures, God never made the new covenant promise to the gentiles. He only made the new covenant promise to Israel. According to the scriptures, the new covenant was only ever made to Israel who is defined in the new covenant scriptures as all those who through faith now believe and follow Gods' Word. According to the scriptures God's Israel is no longer all those who are born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who are born of the Spirit into God' new covenant promise through faith *Romans 9:6-8; John 3:3-7; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27.

In the new covenant scriptures a Jew, is not a Jew which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. - Romans 2:28-29. According to the scriptures, both Jewish born believers and gentile believers are all now one in Christ and through faith are now Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise *Galatians 3:28-29. Gentiles are now grafted in through faith *Romans 11:13-27.

Therefore if you are not a part of God's Israel under the new covenant you have no part in God's new covenant promise which is only given to God's Israel *Hebrews 8:10-12. According to the scripture the name ISRAEL is only a name given by God to all His people who believe and follow what Gods Word says (scripture support here). God's Israel therefore in the new covenant is simply all those who through faith have been born of the Spirit into God's new covenant promise because they believe and follow what God's Word says.

Of course God's Word includes not breaking God's commandments and believing and following what God's Word says. According to the scriptures if we knowingly break anyone of God's commandments and do not believe and follow Gods' Word it is sin (see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11 and Romans 14:23).

Take Care.

bbbbbbb · Sep 24, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
No. According to the scriptures, God never made the new covenant promise to the gentiles. He only made the new covenant promise to Israel. According to the scriptures, the new covenant was only ever made to Israel who is defined in the new covenant scriptures as all those who through faith now believe and follow Gods' Word. According to the scriptures God's Israel is no longer all those who are born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who are born of the Spirit into God' new covenant promise through faith *Romans 9:6-8; John 3:3-7; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. In the new covenant scriptures a Jew, is not a Jew which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. - Romans 2:28-29. According to the scriptures, both Jewish born believers and gentile believers are all now one in Christ and through faith are now Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise *Galatians 3:28-29. Gentiles are now grafted in through faith *Romans 11:13-27. Therefore if you are not a part of God's Israel under the new covenant you have no part in God's new covenant promise which is only given to God's Israel *Hebrews 8:10-12. According to the scripture the name ISRAEL is only a name given by God to all His people who believe and follow what Gods Word says (scripture support here). God's Israel therefore in the new covenant is simply all those who through faith have been born of the Spirit into God's new covenant promise because they believe and follow what God's Word says. Of course God's Word includes not breaking God's commandments and believing and following what God's Word says. According to the scriptures if we break God's commandments and do not believe and follow Gods' Word it is sin (see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11 and Romans 14:23).

Take Care.

Well, I guess that leaves me, as well as yourself and your fellow members in the SDA, out completely. Not one of us is Jewish. Paul, who was Jewish, made a great point of the fact that he was the apostle to the Gentiles. Either Paul was exceedingly deluded in thinking that Gentiles could become Jews without circumcision or any other obedience to the OT Law or he was exceedingly deceitful. Which do you think he was?

SkyWriting · Sep 24, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Trouble is this teaching is not supported by scripture and neither is it biblical.

So it doesn't fit your fancy.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 25, 2021

bbbbbbb said:
Well, I guess that leaves me, as well as yourself and your fellow members in the SDA, out completely. Not one of us is Jewish. Paul, who was Jewish, made a great point of the fact that he was the apostle to the Gentiles. Either Paul was exceedingly deluded in thinking that Gentiles could become Jews without circumcision or any other obedience to the OT Law or he was exceedingly deceitful. Which do you think he was?

Not at all. According to the new covenant scriptures and also the very post you are quoting from "he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." -Romans 2:28-29. God's Israel is no longer all those who are born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who are born of the Spirit into God' new covenant promise through faith *Romans 9:6-8; John 3:3-7; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. All of the above however is in the very post you are quoting from. You did not read it did you.

Take Care

SabbathBlessings · Sep 25, 2021

bbbbbbb said:
Fantastic! We are no longer obligated to go to church on Saturday just like the Jews do.

How did you come to that conclusion from Jeremiah 31:33?

God said He writes His laws in our hearts and mind. God’s laws would certainly include the holy commandments that God personally wrote and spoke which of course includes the Sabbath commandment that starts with the word REMEMBER. If God wanted us to forget one of His commandments it certainly would not be the one that started with the word Remember- how confusing would that be? God personally wrote a covenant of Ten that is stored in the Most Holy of God’s Temple. Why do you not see the significance of this?

God promised the Sabbath would be a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 which we see fulfilled throughout the Old and New Testament (Jesus going to the Temple teaching God’s Word on the Sabbath Luke 4:16) and in the New Heaven Isaiah 66:23. God’s will for us is not different on earth as it is in heaven.

Hope this helps
God bless

Saint Steven · Sep 25, 2021

newwaytobehuman said:
I think it could be referring to the new earth.

I think maybe (can't say for sure) that we will keep Shabbat on the new earth.

Thanks.
That is what appears to say until you question Sabbatarians. Then we take the long way round to get to the meaning.

When asked about the New Moon aspect (in Isaiah 66:23), they inform us that it means from month to month. Well... if you look at how this is written, then "from one Sabbath to the next" would mean from week to week. The word Sabbath is sometimes used just to designate a period of seven days. (not a reference to the practice)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Oftentimes Isaiah 66:23 is quoted as proof of future Sabbath observance. But those same folks don't keep the New Moon. And...

Colossians 2:16 NIV
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 25, 2021

The Liturgist said:
In the post which my post is responding to I thought. I mean, it looks like you were very strongly suggesting that Sunday worship is somehow against the commandments of God.

Exodus 20:9. God tells us to work six day and the Sabbath day we should keep holy Exodus 20:8 because that is the holy day of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10

This is what God wrote and spoke so your argument is not with any of us.

Jesus tells us to not worship in vain by obeying traditions over the commandments of God Matthew 15:3-9

God bless

SabbathBlessings · Sep 25, 2021

Saint Steven said:
Thanks.
That is what appears to say until you question Sabbatarians. Then we take the long way round to get to the meaning.

When asked about the New Moon aspect (in Isaiah 66:23), they inform us that it means from month to month. Well... if you look at how this is written, then "from one Sabbath to the next" would mean from week to week. The word Sabbath is sometimes used just to designate a period of seven days. (not a reference to the practice)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Oftentimes Isaiah 66:23 is quoted as proof of future Sabbath observance. But those same folks don't keep the New Moon. And...

Colossians 2:16 NIV
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

The scripture says from one Sabbath to another which means every seven days on the Sabbath, not everyday. The Sabbath is not defined ever as everyday. God defined what the Sabbath means so its not wise to change the Words of God Exodus 20:8-11

New moon means the start of the month so in its proper context this verse says from one month to another and from one Sabbath to another we will be worshipping our Lord and Savior, which is consistent with the entire bible.

Many people believe when Jesus comes back the months will be 28 days so every New Moon will also be the Sabbath. We will have to wait and see, but I do find it amazing the extremes people will go to try and forget the one commandment God said to Remember.

Are non-Jewish Christians commanded to keep the 7th Day Sabbath

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