Subtle satan

Has satan deceived the church to abolish God's laws?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 75.0%
  • No

    Votes: 2 25.0%

  • Total voters
    8

Bob S

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And do you have no understanding? Abraham sets the example to obey God's word, God was testing him to see if he would obey. Do you really think God was going to let him go through with it? Also written torah was given from God through Moses to the children of Israel, and guess what if you are alive in Christ you are Abraham's seed. You don't decide what righteous living is God does.
Are you really going to argue the fact that it was because of his faith that he was saved and not by the works of the Law. Are you unable to admit that you could ever be wrong?
 
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Hezekiah81

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Are you really going to argue the fact that it was because of his faith that he was saved and not by the works of the Law. Are you unable to admit that you could ever be wrong?
He was accounted righteous because he believed in God and obeyed his word. You can't just say you believe and not obey because then you start doing what's right in your own eyes, what is sin: transgression of torah. God bless you.
 
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Bob S

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He was accounted righteous because he believed in God and obeyed his word. You can't just say you believe and not obey because then you start doing what's right in your own eyes, what is sin: transgression of torah. God bless you.
Well, believe what you want, but personally i will go with God's special contributors like John in 1Jn 3: 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Gentiles were never subject to Torah. When did that change?
 
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Hezekiah81

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Well, believe what you want, but personally i will go with God's special contributors like John in 1Jn 3: 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Gentiles were never subject to Torah. When did that change?
I'm sorry did I miss the part where that scripture says only commandment, no, I didn't miss it because it's not there, also when Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments he meant plural and all of them. What is the love of God, that we keep his commandments and they are not grievous, also those who say they know God and keep not his commandments is a liar. That man fabricated doctrine you've been fed does not change the truth of God's word. What is sin: transgression of torah. God bless you.
 
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Bob S

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I'm sorry did I miss the part where that scripture says only commandment, no, I didn't miss it because it's not there, also when Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments he meant plural and all of them. What is the love of God, that we keep his commandments and they are not grievous, also those who say they know God and keep not his commandments is a liar. That man fabricated doctrine you've been fed does not change the truth of God's word. What is sin: transgression of torah. God bless you.
Hi Hezekiah, in Jn15 Jesus Himself said he kept His Father's commands. I would assume He meant Torah. Then He goes on to ask us to keep His commands. Jesus is God. His love command covers every sin we could ever commit against our fellow man and ourselves. That means hundreds not just the nine in the ten commandments. the ten commandments don't even mention the greatest command, LOVE. Here are just a few ways we can hurt ourselves and our fellow man that are not part of the old covenant ten that were given to only Israel:
- Pride
- Greed
- Envy
- Wrath, Fits of Rage
- Lust
- Gluttony
- Sloth
- Dishonesty, Deception
- Impurity, Debauchery
- Witchcraft, Sorcery
- Hatred, Indifference
- Jealousy
- Showing Favoritism, Prejudice and Discrimination
- Selfish Ambition, Self-Centeredness
- Withholding Remedy to Human or Animal Needs
- Drunkenness, Drug Abuse
- Fornication, Sodomy, inappropriate behavior with animals
- Discord, Dissensions, Factions
- Unbelief, Disbelief, Agnosticism, Atheism
- Etc.

The definition of sin is not limited to the Ten Commandments.

And what about sins of omission?

James 4:17
If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do
and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

1Jn 3:19-24 tells us we belong to the truth if we believe in Jesus Christ, and love one another as he commanded us. Notice John doesn't tell us to keep Torah. The fact is that God only asked Israel to keep Torah. The question is why do you insist on the great misnomer that somehow everyone is now required to keep Torah? Trying to convince new covenant believers that we somehow morphed and are now under old covenant laws of Torah is a bunch of blather.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Hi Hezekiah, in Jn15 Jesus Himself said he kept His Father's commands. I would assume He meant Torah. Then He goes on to ask us to keep His commands. Jesus is God. His love command covers every sin we could ever commit against our fellow man and ourselves. That means hundreds not just the nine in the ten commandments. the ten commandments don't even mention the greatest command, LOVE. Here are just a few ways we can hurt ourselves and our fellow man that are not part of the old covenant ten that were given to only Israel:
- Pride
- Greed
- Envy
- Wrath, Fits of Rage
- Lust
- Gluttony
- Sloth
- Dishonesty, Deception
- Impurity, Debauchery
- Witchcraft, Sorcery
- Hatred, Indifference
- Jealousy
- Showing Favoritism, Prejudice and Discrimination
- Selfish Ambition, Self-Centeredness
- Withholding Remedy to Human or Animal Needs
- Drunkenness, Drug Abuse
- Fornication, Sodomy, inappropriate behavior with animals
- Discord, Dissensions, Factions
- Unbelief, Disbelief, Agnosticism, Atheism
- Etc.

The definition of sin is not limited to the Ten Commandments.

And what about sins of omission?

James 4:17
If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do
and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

1Jn 3:19-24 tells us we belong to the truth if we believe in Jesus Christ, and love one another as he commanded us. Notice John doesn't tell us to keep Torah. The fact is that God only asked Israel to keep Torah. The question is why do you insist on the great misnomer that somehow everyone is now required to keep Torah? Trying to convince new covenant believers that we somehow morphed and are now under old covenant laws of Torah is a bunch of blather.

Jesus does not teach us to do something different than what He does. Jesus is our example and He kept the Commandments of God and asked us to as well, which includes the Sabbath that Jesus went to Temple as our example preaching God’s Word on the Sabbath Luke 4:16. Jesus said Follow Him, so if He is teaching on the Sabbath and told us the Sabbath was made for mankind you are free to follow your own path, but I choose to follow the path that Jesus is on.

We should be careful to follow God's Word because in the Garden of Eden, Eve was told "you won’t surely die" which was the exact opposite of what God said.

God said to REMEMBER so forgetting is what the other spirit wants us to do, not God

We have time right now to follow God’s Word, but just like the days of Noah we are told so will be the second coming of Jesus. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from the story of Noah. Noah showed great faith in God and obeyed, even when the whole world thought he was crazy.
 
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Bob S

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Jesus does not teach us to do something different than what He does. Jesus is our example and He kept the Commandments of God and asked us to as well, which includes the Sabbath that Jesus went to Temple as our example preaching God’s Word on the Sabbath Luke 4:16. Jesus said Follow Him, so if He is teaching on the Sabbath and told us the Sabbath was made for mankind you are free to follow your own path, but I choose to follow the path that Jesus is on.
You talk the talk, but do you walk the walk? Jesus kept the feast days, do you? Jesus would not have cut His sideburns, do the men in your belief system cut theirs? Jesus kept the Sabbath because He was a Jew under old covenant laws. Jesus never once asked or demanded that Gentiles keep Jewish laws. Why do you?

We should be careful to follow God's Word
God's words to who?

because in the Garden of Eden, Eve was told "you won’t surely die" which was the exact opposite of what God said.
It is quite upsetting to hear others tell me I am not following God's Word. This, of course, is what you do in everyone of your posts.

God said to REMEMBER
Yes, He told the Israelites to remember. He never even one time told Gentiles to remember.
so forgetting is what the other spirit wants us to do, not God
Forgetting what? What did God ask Gentiles to forget?

We have time right now to follow God’s Word, but just like the days of Noah we are told so will be the second coming of Jesus. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from the story of Noah. Noah showed great faith in God and obeyed, even when the whole world thought he was crazy.
There are a lot of lessens to be learned from the Apostle Paul, but apparently you don't think so. One I am thinking of is that mankind is not under the Law. The Law being the613 laws of the old covenant
 
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SabbathBlessings

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You talk the talk, but do you walk the walk? Jesus kept the feast days, do you? Jesus would not have cut His sideburns, do the men in your belief system cut theirs? Jesus kept the Sabbath because He was a Jew under old covenant laws. Jesus never once asked or demanded that Gentiles keep Jewish laws. Why do you?


God's words to who?


It is quite upsetting to hear others tell me I am not following God's Word. This, of course, is what you do in everyone of your posts.


Yes, He told the Israelites to remember. He never even one time told Gentiles to remember.

Forgetting what? What did God ask Gentiles to forget?


There are a lot of lessens to be learned from the Apostle Paul, but apparently you don't think so. One I am thinking of is that mankind is not under the Law. The Law being the613 laws of the old covenant

I like how you deviated, but that's okay.

God bless
 
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Bob S

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I like how you deviated, but that's okay.

God bless
Hi SB, I wish you would give your opinion to the thoughts I raised in my post. Why do you veer away from questions concerning your posts? If you are going to write such things then please give us an answer to our concerns.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Hi SB, I wish you would give your opinion to the thoughts I raised in my post. Why do you veer away from questions concerning your posts? If you are going to write such things then please give us an answer to our concerns.
I have many times. We will have to agree to disagree.
 
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Bob S

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I have many times. We will have to agree to disagree.
Sorry SB, but you are trying to tell us we are wrong and when I ask you if you observe the feast days you will not give me an answer as to why you don't. SDAs do not keep the feast days yet your post tell us and I quote your words: "Jesus does not teach us to do something different than what He does. Jesus is our example and He kept the Commandments of God and asked us to as well, which includes the Sabbath that Jesus went to Temple as our example preaching God’s Word on the Sabbath Luke 4:16. Jesus said Follow Him, so if He is teaching on the Sabbath and told us the Sabbath was made for mankind you are free to follow your own path, but I choose to follow the path that Jesus is on."

The commandments to Israel were many more than just the ten. Jesus kept those other command too. How about giving us the reason you ignore them, Jesus didn't.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Sorry SB, but you are trying to tell us we are wrong and when I ask you if you observe the feast days you will not give me an answer as to why you don't. SDAs do not keep the feast days yet your post tell us and I quote your words: "Jesus does not teach us to do something different than what He does. Jesus is our example and He kept the Commandments of God and asked us to as well, which includes the Sabbath that Jesus went to Temple as our example preaching God’s Word on the Sabbath Luke 4:16. Jesus said Follow Him, so if He is teaching on the Sabbath and told us the Sabbath was made for mankind you are free to follow your own path, but I choose to follow the path that Jesus is on."

The commandments to Israel were many more than just the ten. Jesus kept those other command too. How about giving us the reason you ignore them, Jesus didn't.
What does Hebrews 10 mean to you?
 
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Bob S

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What does Hebrews 10 mean to you?
Still no answer. You are here trying to convert or uphold your belief system and yet you refuse to answer pointed questions as to why SDAs talk the talk ,but according to how Jesus lived do not walk the walk.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Still no answer. You are here trying to convert or uphold your belief system and yet you refuse to answer pointed questions as to why SDAs talk the talk ,but according to how Jesus lived do not walk the walk.
So lets start with the Ten are you saying Jesus did not keep them or did keep them? If Jesus kept the commandments of His Father should we not as well? We can get to the law of Moses later.
 
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Studyman

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[What's one of satan's greatest deceptions? Getting people to believe there is no law for he is the lawless one.] (2 Corinthians 11:14-15) 14 And no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. [God bless you.]

It is true that satan has always worked to convince others that God is a liar, and His Law a Yoke of Bondage making folks blind. But the more important issue of Paul's warning, in my view, is who are the purveyors of this deception?

Men who come in Christ's Name.
 
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Studyman

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Still no answer. You are here trying to convert or uphold your belief system and yet you refuse to answer pointed questions as to why SDAs talk the talk ,but according to how Jesus lived do not walk the walk.

You are the poster child of this religious practice Bob. You went from one religious franchise in which you worked for 30 years to convert others to a religion you now condemn, to a different religious franchise in which you are now trying to convert others to a religion you condemned for 30 years. You didn't "walk even a Jesus walked", the first time you are trying to convert others to your religion, and you still don't walk "Even as Jesus walked", trying to convert others to your religion now.

Instead of choosing one religious franchise of this world over another religious franchise of this world, Perhaps you might consider them all equal, and simply yield yourself to the God of the Bible. This what all the Examples of Faith in the Bible did.
 
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Leaf473

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[What's one of satan's greatest deceptions? Getting people to believe there is no law for he is the lawless one.] (2 Corinthians 11:14-15) 14 And no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. [God bless you.]
Hi Hezekiah81,

Nice to meet you.

I'd be happy to have a friendly respectful discussion about the law with you, either on this thread or a different one. I would want to talk about laws from the entire law, like it talks about here

Deuteronomy 6 These words, which I command you today, shall be on your heart; 7 and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them for a sign on your hand, and they shall be for frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the door posts of your house and on your gates.

Are you interested?
 
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Hezekiah81

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Hi Hezekiah81,

Nice to meet you.

I'd be happy to have a friendly respectful discussion about the law with you, either on this thread or a different one. I would want to talk about laws from the entire law, like it talks about here

Deuteronomy 6 These words, which I command you today, shall be on your heart; 7 and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them for a sign on your hand, and they shall be for frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the door posts of your house and on your gates.

Are you interested?
Feel free to say what's on your heart. God bless you.
 
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Leaf473

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Feel free to say what's on your heart. God bless you.
Thanks!

This came to mind this morning

Deuteronomy 25 If brothers dwell together, and one of them die, and have no son, the wife of the dead shall not be married outside to a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in to her, and take her to him as wife, and perform the duty of a husband's brother to her.

I don't think we ought to do the actual marrying today, because I think it says in Corinthians something about each man having his own wife.

But the general idea, that of taking care of the vulnerable in society, would definitely be something we would follow. In those times, of course, a widow didn't have very many options for financial support.

It would go along well with not oppressing the immigrant, I think that's another law.
 
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Bob S

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So lets start with the Ten are you saying Jesus did not keep them or did keep them? If Jesus kept the commandments of His Father should we not as well? We can get to the law of Moses later.
Very clever SB. In place of any kind of an answer to any of my questions you try to turn it around and ask of me to answer your question.

Are you willing to answer the following questions or not. If you aren't then just tell me and I will understand.

Jesus kept the feast days, why don't you since you tell us that we have to do what Jesus did?

I quote your words: "Jesus does not teach us to do something different than what He does. Jesus is our example and He kept the Commandments of God and asked us to as well, which includes the Sabbath that Jesus went to Temple as our example preaching God’s Word on the Sabbath Luke 4:16. Jesus said Follow Him, so if He is teaching on the Sabbath and told us the Sabbath was made for mankind you are free to follow your own path, but I choose to follow the path that Jesus is on."

If as you tell us you follow the "path" that Jesus was on You should be able to give a reason for veering off that path when it comes to commands He observed and you do not observe. This makes you no better than me. The difference is that I give a solid reason for not keeping the laws that Jesus kept. You have refused to do the same.

The commandments to Israel were many more than just the ten. Jesus kept those other command too. How about giving us the reason you ignore them, Jesus didn't.
 
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