Are non-Jewish Christians commanded to keep the 7th Day Sabbath

bbbbbbb · Sep 22, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
No one is telling you to get your righteousness from the letter of the law. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. So what is your argument here? You have none.

Whew! I am relieved. For some time I actually was beginning to think that you believe that God requires folks to keep His Law.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 22, 2021

bbbbbbb said:
Whew! I am relieved. For some time I actually was beginning to think that you believe that God requires folks to keep His Law.

According to the scriptures, genuine saving faith does not abolish Gods' law it establishes Gods' law according to Romans 3:31 in the lives of those who have been born again to believe and follow God's Word *1 John 3:6-9. Anything else according to James is the dead faith of devils according to the scriptures *James 2:17-26

bbbbbbb · Sep 23, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
According to the scriptures, genuine saving faith does not abolish Gods' law it establishes Gods' law according to Romans 3:31 in the lives of those who have been born again to believe and follow God's Word *1 John 3:6-9. Anything else according to James is the dead faith of devils according to the scriptures *James 2:17-26

So what happens to those folks who don't obey God's Law?

LoveGodsWord · Sep 23, 2021

bbbbbbb said:
So what happens to those folks who don't obey God's Law?

What does Hebrews 10:26-31 mean to you?

SabbathBlessings · Sep 23, 2021

chad kincham said:
My point stands - the Decalogue only limits the amount of harm you do, and does not command any positive deeds to help anyone, but the two love commands do.

The only love in the Decalogue is towards God, there’s no love for your neighbor in it.

In 2 Corinthians chapter three, where Paul says the apostles are the ministers of the new covenant and the law of the Spirit that gives life, which he compares with the ten commands, given to Moses on the mountain, that brings death..

The Ten Commands are called the ministration of DEATH, the letter which KILLS, and the ministration of CONDEMNATION.

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the NEW testament; not of the letter, but of the SPIRIT : for the letter KILLETH , but the spirit giveth life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration OF DEATH written andengraven in stones (The Ten Commandments) was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glorywas to be DONE AWAY:

2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation beglory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Co 3:11 For if that which is DONE AWAY wasglorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious

You cannot keep the spirit of the law by breaking the letter.

Norbert L · Sep 23, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Knowingly breaking anyone of Gods' 10 commandments according to the scriptures is not following scripture *James 2:10-11; Matthew 7:21-23; James 4:17; Hebrews 10:26-31.

That's where you have been misguided, no one here is saying that Christian Jews shouldn't keep the 7th day Sabbath either. As Peter pointed out, the rules are different for them.

Both Elisha and the Jerusalem council understood that Gentiles did not agree to the Sinai covenant. Yet by entertaining and putting words in the mouths of their fellow gentile brothers and sisters in Christ, they themselves are bearing a false witness towards them. When a person wants to use the Law it cuts both ways. Basically it's textbook Matthew 7:1-2

Your being just as guilty as those who your theology is accusing another Christian of transgressing.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 23, 2021

Norbert L said:
That's where you have been misguided, no one here is saying that Christian Jews shouldn't keep the 7th day Sabbath either. As Peter pointed out, the rules are different for them.

Both Elisha and the Jerusalem council understood that Gentiles did not agree to the Sinai covenant. Yet by entertaining and putting words in the mouths of their fellow gentile brothers and sisters in Christ, they themselves are bearing a false witness towards them. When a person wants to use the Law it cuts both ways. Basically it's textbook Matthew 7:1-2

Not really. The misguidance is on your side not mine but allow me to show why from the scriptures. As posted earlier according to the scriptures if we knowingly break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11; Matthew 7:21-23; James 4:17; Hebrews 10:26-31. These of course are not my words but God's Word. Happy to discuss the covenants with you if you like as well as Acts 15 in detail if your interested.

Take Care.

parousia70 · Sep 23, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
The disciples gathered together everyday of the week according to the scriptures... Acts of the Apostles 2:46-47 [46], And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,[47], Praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. That of course does not mean that God's 4th commandment is abolished and every day of the week is now a holy day does it? There is nothing wrong with tradition if it is supported in scripture. However, there is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. According to Jesus when tradition because bad is when it leads us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God. Jesus (not me) says that if we knowingly follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:2-9. This begs the question who should we believe and follow God or man? You quote 2 Thessalonians 2:15 but you do not see that in the very scripture you quote the tradition that is being talked about is one that is taught from the Word of God. There is no truth outside of Gods' Word according to the scriptures.

Take Care.

So, you can cite not even one scripture commanding we must not gather on Sunday, to celebrate the Lord’s resurrection.

Not even one word of admonition against such gathering can you find in the entire Bible.

Just want to make sure our readers are clear on this point.

Norbert L · Sep 23, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Not really. The misguidance is on your side. As posted earlier according to the scriptures if we knowingly break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11; Matthew 7:21-23; James 4:17; Hebrews 10:26-31. These of course are not my words but God's Word. Happy to discuss the covenants with you if you like as well as Acts 15 in detail if your interested.

Take Care.

Actually really that theological thinking is bearing a false witness.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 23, 2021

Norbert L said:
Actually really that theological thinking is bearing a false witness.

And what would that be? You have only been provided God's Word. How then can Gods' Word bear false witness against Gods' Word? That does not make any sense now does it?

LoveGodsWord · Sep 23, 2021

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ The disciples gathered together everyday of the week according to the scriptures... Acts of the Apostles 2:46-47 [46], And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,[47], Praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. That of course does not mean that God's 4th commandment is abolished and every day of the week is now a holy day does it? There is nothing wrong with tradition if it is supported in scripture. However, there is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. According to Jesus when tradition because bad is when it leads us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God. Jesus (not me) says that if we knowingly follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:2-9. This begs the question who should we believe and follow God or man? You quote 2 Thessalonians 2:15 but you do not see that in the very scripture you quote the tradition that is being talked about is one that is taught from the Word of God. There is no truth outside of Gods' Word according to the scriptures.

Your response here...

parousia70 said:
So, you can cite not even one scripture commanding we must not gather on Sunday, to celebrate the Lord’s resurrection. Not even one word of admonition against such gathering can you find in the entire Bible. Just want to make sure our readers are clear on this point.

What do you think the post and the scriptures in the post you are quoting from is saying?

namohcam · Sep 23, 2021

Der Alte said:
Please show me one verse in the NT which commands non-Jewish Christians must observe the seventh day Sabbath.

Why is this necessary? 50 years ago, no one would make a demand like this. Somehow the Old Testament has lost its status as Scripture in my lifetime. It's truly puzzling. Just asking.

namohcam · Sep 23, 2021

parousia70 said:
Please Cite the scripture that commands we must not gather to celebrate the Lord’s resurrection on Sunday,

An argument from silence? You might as well ask where the Bible says we should not chew gum in class.

namohcam · Sep 23, 2021

Der Alte said:
You say that everyone has freewill and can choose as they wish but you then try to force others to believe as you do by quoting verses over and over trying to force others to interpret them as you do.

How can we force you to do anything? And why would we want to? I don't understand all of this "force" and violence talk.

parousia70 · Sep 23, 2021

Your response:

LoveGodsWord said:
What do you think the post and the scriptures in the post you are quoting from is saying?

None of those scriptures contains ANY admonition AGAINST gathering On Sunday to celebrate the Lord’s resurrection. Not even one.

The disciples gathered together everyday of the week according to the scriptures..

We Catholics do that as well. In accordance with the apostolic, scriptural tradition you have just cited.

Where might I find the daily SDA gathering in my town? What time does the SDA daily gathering take place on Sundays?

parousia70 · Sep 23, 2021

namohcam said:
An argument from silence? You might as well ask where the Bible says we should not chew gum in class.

So you don’t have a scriptural admonition against gathering on Sundays either it appears. Good to know

BTW, arguing for the Sabbath by drawing parallels to something as trivial as gum chewing Doesn’t really help your argument the way you might think it does.

namohcam · Sep 23, 2021

Der Alte said:
So you are saying the scripture i quoted does NOT say Christ is out Passover and First fruits? Are you arguing that Christ does not give us Sabbath i.e. rest?
Do you follow all the laws in the O.T.

Galatians 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Do you observe all the feasts and festivals in the OT?

Is it fair to demand answers to questions when you give none yourself? What about the force issue? When did I say Christ was not our Passover and Firstfruits? I was clear that only the last item (the Sabbath) was eisegesis. Why would I observe ceremonial laws? They are shadows that have their fulfillment in Christ. He is not the fulfillment of the other nine commandments, so why would He be the fulfillment of the 4th?

parousia70 · Sep 23, 2021

namohcam said:
An argument from silence? You might as well ask where the Bible says we should not chew gum in class.

If you’re going to say I can’t chew gum in class and you didn’t make the rule in the first place you better be able to point me to the rule which you are admonishing me to follow. Likewise if you’re going to say Christians must not gather on Sundays to celebrate the Lord’s resurrection, And you didn’t write that rule, you better be able to point me to the rule you are admonishing me to follow.

The problem is you have no such rule that you can reference in scripture or otherwise.

Maybe it is your own rule that you made up all by yourself?

namohcam · Sep 23, 2021

chad kincham said:
The only love in the Decalogue is towards God, there’s no love for your neighbor in it.

If I lived in a world full of people where there was no killing, stealing, lying, adulterizing, coveting, and disrespect to parents, I would feel very safe and loved. Just sayin'.

chad kincham said:
In 2 Corinthians chapter three, where Paul says the apostles are the ministers of the new covenant and the law of the Spirit that gives life, which he compares with the ten commands, given to Moses on the mountain, that brings death..

2 Corinthians ch. 3 is one of those passages that Peter warned about being hard to understand.

2 Peter 3:16 Parallel: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

I admit I don't understand it fully, but I know it can't be an indictment of the Law of God because that would contradict other statements Paul makes about the law:

Romans 7:12 Parallel: Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 3:31 Parallel: Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

namohcam · Sep 23, 2021

parousia70 said:
So you don’t have a scriptural admonition against gathering on Sundays either it appears. Good to know

Glad to be of service. What's wrong with gathering on Sunday?

parousia70 said:
BTW, arguing for the Sabbath by drawing parallels to something as trivial as gum chewing Doesn’t really help your argument the way you might think it does.

I wasn't making an argument for the Sabbath. I was addressing your argument about something else.

Are non-Jewish Christians commanded to keep the 7th Day Sabbath

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