Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

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a-lily-of-peace

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Galatians 2:19 in context is talking about seeking to be justified by the law. No one is teaching you this so your scripture reference is not relevant. Paul is saying here we die to the law for trying to seek our own righteousness from the law. He is not saying we die to the law because we are now free to break Gods' law. That is a false teaching of lawlessness (without law) which is not biblical.

Context added back....

Galatians 2:16-21
[16], Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[17], But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
[18], For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
[19], For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live to God.
[20], I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[21], I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain

..............

Hope this is helpful
Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.

So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 7:1-6


Here - in the Old Testament, the law given to Moses was the covenant between God and the nation of Israel in the flesh. This is likened to a marriage throughout scripture, with God as the husband and Israel as the wife.

Interesting note - it is not a sin under Mosaic Law for the man to take another wife, only for the wife to be with another man. This I believe shows that God is not unfaithful to Israel when he includes the Gentiles.

But here - in the New Testament - why would this "if her husband dies" be relevant to our covenant with God? Through the crucifixion and resurrection - the old covenant was put to death, Israel the bride, and the new covenant was put into place, the church the bride of Christ.

If we are dead to ourselves, we are dead to the law, because the law is what reigns over the flesh.

When we put our flesh to death, we are not under the law, we are under Christ Himself.
 
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Lazarus Short

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Twisting scripture out of context does not make a false teaching true. Happy to show why if your interested.

In my two-year journey thru the KJV to prove one POV over the other two, I saw a lot of pro-damnation twisting in the text. If you use your God-given common sense and some discernment, it is not even difficult to see...and you certainly don't need to be a professional Bible scholar.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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It's an interesting dialogue @a-lily-in-the-valley and @LoveGodsWord but as this is a thread on Christian Universalism would you mind highlighting the universalist points you're making so we stay OT? Thanks.
Mostly that universalism wouldn't mean that Christ died in vain because even if everyone were to be saved, we would all be saved through Christ's death, since through death He conquered death and it's only through His death that we can be raised with Him in life.

Not that this proves universalism, only that it disputes the argument previously made against it.
 
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Hmm

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Mostly that universalism wouldn't mean that Christ died in vain because even if everyone were to be saved, we would all be saved through Christ's death, since through death He conquered death and it's only through His death that we can be raised with Him in life.

Not that this proves universalism, only that it disputes the argument previously made against it.

Yes, sorry I missed the post where you made that point so I've edited my comment out. I agree with what you say.

Carry on!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.

So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 7:1-6

Here - in the Old Testament, the law given to Moses was the covenant between God and the nation of Israel in the flesh. This is likened to a marriage throughout scripture, with God as the husband and Israel as the wife.

Interesting note - it is not a sin under Mosaic Law for the man to take another wife, only for the wife to be with another man. This I believe shows that God is not unfaithful to Israel when he includes the Gentiles.

But here - in the New Testament - why would this "if her husband dies" be relevant to our covenant with God? Through the crucifixion and resurrection - the old covenant was put to death, Israel the bride, and the new covenant was put into place, the church the bride of Christ.

If we are dead to ourselves, we are dead to the law, because the law is what reigns over the flesh.

When we put our flesh to death, we are not under the law, we are under Christ Himself.

The context to Romans 7 is Romans 6:1-23 there is no chapters in the the dead sea scrolls these are added in by the translators. The context of Romans 7 is the death of the old man to sin which Romans 7 leads into and is as follows...

Romans 6:1-23
[1], WHAT SHALL WE SAY THEN? SHALL WE CONTINUE IN SIN, THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND?
[2], GOD FORBID. HOW SHALL WE, THAT ARE DEAD TO SIN, LIVE ANY LONGER THEREIN?
[3], KNOW YOU NOT, THAT SO MANY OF US AS WERE BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST WERE BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH?
[4], THEREFORE WE ARE BURIED WITH HIM BY BAPTISM INTO DEATH: THAT LIKE AS CHRIST WAS RAISED UP FROM THE DEAD BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER, even so we also should WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.
[5], For IF WE HAVE BEEN PLANTED TOGETHER IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS DEATH, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[6], KNOWING THIS, THAT OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DESTROYED, THAT FROM NOW ON WE SHOULD NOT SERVE SIN.
[7], FOR HE THAT IS DEAD IS FREED FROM SIN.
[8], NOW IF WE BE DEAD WITH CHRIST, WE BELIEVE THAT WE SHALL ALSO LIVE WITH HIM:
[9], Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death has no more dominion over him.
[10], FOR IN THAT HE DIED, HE DIED TO SIN ONCE: BUT IN THAT HE LIVES, HE LIVES TO GOD.
[11], LIKEWISE RECKON YOU ALSO YOURSELVES TO BE DEAD INDEED TO SIN, BUT ALIVE TO GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.
[12], LET NOT SIN THEREFORE REIGN IN YOUR MORTAL BODY, THAT YOU SHOULD OBEY IT IN THE LUSTS THEREOF.
[13], NEITHER YIELD YOU YOUR MEMBERS AS INSTRUMENTS OF UNRIGHTEOUSNESS TO SIN: BUT YIELD YOURSELVES TO GOD, AS THOSE THAT ARE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD, AND YOUR MEMBERS AS INSTRUMENTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS TO GOD.
[14], FOR SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE.
[15], WHAT THEN? SHALL WE SIN, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID.
[16], KNOW YOU NOT, THAT TO WHOM YOU YIELD YOURSELVES SERVANTS TO OBEY, HIS SERVANTS YOU ARE TO WHOM YOU OBEY; WHETHER OF SIN TO DEATH, OR OF OBEDIENCE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?
[17], But God be thanked, that you were the servants of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[18], BEING THEN MADE FREE FROM SIN, YOU BECAME THE SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
[19], I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as you have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity to iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness to holiness.
[20], For when you were the servants of sin, you were free from righteousness.
[21], What fruit had you then in those things whereof you are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
[22], BUT NOW BEING MADE FREE FROM SIN, AND BECOME SERVANTS TO GOD, YOU HAVE YOUR FRUIT TO HOLINESS, AND THE END EVERLASTING LIFE.
[23], For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

..................

Romans 7:6 [6], But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Q. What was it that God's LAW shows in ROMANS 7 that has bound us? Let's go back to the verse that is before....

Romans 7:5 [5], For when we were in the FLESH <G4561 Carnal mind or sinful human nature>, the motions of SINS, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit to death.

A. It is SIN that has bound us!

<* NOTE: the key to this verse is delivered from the law, being dead to that in which we were held. The law revived and I died... Why? Because the LAW gave a KNOWLEDGE of SIN. It is SIN that God's LAW holds us to. It is SIN that we are delivered from not God's LAW.>

The GREEK (interlinear) translation to English of ROMANS 7:6 is...

"Now however we have been released from the law having died to that which bound us"

Here are a few different bible versions of the same scripture...

New International Version
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

English Standard Version
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

Berean Study Bible
But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the Law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Berean Literal Bible
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that which we were bound, in order for us to serve in newness of the Spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.

New American Standard Bible
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Christian Standard Bible
But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us, so that we may serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the old letter of the law.

Contemporary English Version
But the Law no longer rules over us. We are like dead people, and it cannot have any power over us. Now we can serve God in a new way by obeying his Spirit, and not in the old way by obeying the written Law.

Good News Translation
Now, however, we are free from the Law, because we died to that which once held us prisoners. No longer do we serve in the old way of a written law, but in the new way of the Spirit.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us, so that we may serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old letter of the law.

International Standard Version
But now we have been released from the Law by dying to what enslaved us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit, not under the old writings.

NET Bible
But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code.

New Heart English Bible
But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that in which we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But now we have been exempted from The Written Law, and we are dead to that which had controlled us, so that we shall serve from now on in the newness of The Spirit and not in the Old Order Scriptures.

New American Standard 1977
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Jubilee Bible 2000
But now we are free from the law of death in which we were held, that we might serve in newness of Spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

American Standard Version
But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that wherein we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.

Darby Bible Translation
but now we are clear from the law, having died in that in which we were held, so that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.

English Revised Version
But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that wherein we were holden; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.

................

CONCLUSION: It is that which binds us that we are released from. It is SIN that binds us not God's LAW. We are released from SIN and the penalty of SIN by walking in the SPIRIT of the NEW COVENANT promise by FAITH (ROMANS 8:1-4)...

Hope this is helpful
 
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Ceallaigh

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No and that’s exactly why universalism is so dangerous, because it gives people a false sense of security leading them to believe that they don’t need to repent and believe in this life. That they can live however they want then just repent later and still be saved.

Even if hell isn't an eternal torture chamber, eternal speration from God, total annihilation etc, I still would not want to go there. But my main reason for trying my best to live the way God wants me to is because He's my Father and I love Him and want to please Him, and avoid doing things that greave Him, because I love Him.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hope is good. We'll make a Universalist out of you yet :)
Never. Because for me only Gods' Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that lead many to break the commandments of God. My hope is that you will hear God's Word and flee from this false teachings of Universalism back to the scriptures and seek God for a knowledge of the truth of His Word which can alone save us all.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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Nonsense. Twisting scripture to make scripture say what it is not saying. The context to Romans 7 is Romans 6:1-23 there is no chapters in the the dead sea scrolls these are added in by the translators. The context of Romans 7 is the death of the old man to sin which Romans 7 leads into and is as follows...

Romans 6:1-23
[1], WHAT SHALL WE SAY THEN? SHALL WE CONTINUE IN SIN, THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND?
[2], GOD FORBID. HOW SHALL WE, THAT ARE DEAD TO SIN, LIVE ANY LONGER THEREIN?
[3], KNOW YOU NOT, THAT SO MANY OF US AS WERE BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST WERE BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH?
[4], THEREFORE WE ARE BURIED WITH HIM BY BAPTISM INTO DEATH: THAT LIKE AS CHRIST WAS RAISED UP FROM THE DEAD BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER, even so we also should WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.
[5], For IF WE HAVE BEEN PLANTED TOGETHER IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS DEATH, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[6], KNOWING THIS, THAT OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DESTROYED, THAT FROM NOW ON WE SHOULD NOT SERVE SIN.
[7], FOR HE THAT IS DEAD IS FREED FROM SIN.
[8], NOW IF WE BE DEAD WITH CHRIST, WE BELIEVE THAT WE SHALL ALSO LIVE WITH HIM:
[9], Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death has no more dominion over him.
[10], FOR IN THAT HE DIED, HE DIED TO SIN ONCE: BUT IN THAT HE LIVES, HE LIVES TO GOD.
[11], LIKEWISE RECKON YOU ALSO YOURSELVES TO BE DEAD INDEED TO SIN, BUT ALIVE TO GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.
[12], LET NOT SIN THEREFORE REIGN IN YOUR MORTAL BODY, THAT YOU SHOULD OBEY IT IN THE LUSTS THEREOF.
[13], NEITHER YIELD YOU YOUR MEMBERS AS INSTRUMENTS OF UNRIGHTEOUSNESS TO SIN: BUT YIELD YOURSELVES TO GOD, AS THOSE THAT ARE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD, AND YOUR MEMBERS AS INSTRUMENTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS TO GOD.
[14], FOR SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE.
[15], WHAT THEN? SHALL WE SIN, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID.
[16], KNOW YOU NOT, THAT TO WHOM YOU YIELD YOURSELVES SERVANTS TO OBEY, HIS SERVANTS YOU ARE TO WHOM YOU OBEY; WHETHER OF SIN TO DEATH, OR OF OBEDIENCE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?
[17], But God be thanked, that you were the servants of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[18], BEING THEN MADE FREE FROM SIN, YOU BECAME THE SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
[19], I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as you have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity to iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness to holiness.
[20], For when you were the servants of sin, you were free from righteousness.
[21], What fruit had you then in those things whereof you are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
[22], BUT NOW BEING MADE FREE FROM SIN, AND BECOME SERVANTS TO GOD, YOU HAVE YOUR FRUIT TO HOLINESS, AND THE END EVERLASTING LIFE.
[23], For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

..................

Romans 7:6 [6], But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Q. What was it that God's LAW shows in ROMANS 7 that has bound us? Let's go back to the verse that is before....

Romans 7:5 [5], For when we were in the FLESH <G4561 Carnal mind or sinful human nature>, the motions of SINS, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit to death.

A. It is SIN that has bound us!

<* NOTE: the key to this verse is delivered from the law, being dead to that in which we were held. The law revived and I died... Why? Because the LAW gave a KNOWLEDGE of SIN. It is SIN that God's LAW holds us to. It is SIN that we are delivered from not God's LAW.>

The GREEK (interlinear) translation to English of ROMANS 7:6 is...

"Now however we have been released from the law having died to that which bound us"

Here are a few different bible versions of the same scripture...

New International Version
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

English Standard Version
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

Berean Study Bible
But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the Law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Berean Literal Bible
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that which we were bound, in order for us to serve in newness of the Spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.

New American Standard Bible
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Christian Standard Bible
But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us, so that we may serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the old letter of the law.

Contemporary English Version
But the Law no longer rules over us. We are like dead people, and it cannot have any power over us. Now we can serve God in a new way by obeying his Spirit, and not in the old way by obeying the written Law.

Good News Translation
Now, however, we are free from the Law, because we died to that which once held us prisoners. No longer do we serve in the old way of a written law, but in the new way of the Spirit.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us, so that we may serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old letter of the law.

International Standard Version
But now we have been released from the Law by dying to what enslaved us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit, not under the old writings.

NET Bible
But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code.

New Heart English Bible
But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that in which we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But now we have been exempted from The Written Law, and we are dead to that which had controlled us, so that we shall serve from now on in the newness of The Spirit and not in the Old Order Scriptures.

New American Standard 1977
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Jubilee Bible 2000
But now we are free from the law of death in which we were held, that we might serve in newness of Spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

American Standard Version
But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that wherein we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.

Darby Bible Translation
but now we are clear from the law, having died in that in which we were held, so that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.

English Revised Version
But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that wherein we were holden; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.

................

CONCLUSION: It is that which binds us that we are released from. It is SIN that binds us not God's LAW. We are released from SIN and the penalty of SIN by walking in the SPIRIT of the NEW COVENANT promise by FAITH (ROMANS 8:1-4)...

Hope this is helpful
We are also dead to the law as I highlighted twice that phrase (Galatians 2:19 & Romans 7:4) because the law (Torah / 5 Books of Moses) is entirely in relation to the generations of Adam in the flesh and when we are dead to ourselves and buried into Christ's baptism we have died to the old Adam whose understanding was detailed in the law through the veil, as the shadow of what was to come in Christ.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Mostly that universalism wouldn't mean that Christ died in vain because even if everyone were to be saved, we would all be saved through Christ's death, since through death He conquered death and it's only through His death that we can be raised with Him in life. Not that this proves universalism, only that it disputes the argument previously made against it.
Not really. If Universalism was true there was no need for Christ to die. Universalism makes a mockery of the death of God's dear son and counts the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Hebrews 10:26-31. God's salvation according to the scriptures is conditional to believing and following what God's Word says and we know what happened to the wicked at the second coming.
 
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Hmm

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Not really. If Universalism was true there was no need for Christ to die. Universalism makes a mockery of the death of God's dear son and counts the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Hebrews 10:26-31. God's salvation according to the scriptures is conditional to believing and following what God's Word says and we know what happened to the wicked at the second coming.

If you don't mind me saying, you are repeating posts. People are trying to engage with you but you are not listening. Remember, God gave you two ears but only one keyboard.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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We are also dead to the law as I highlighted twice that phrase (Galatians 2:19 & Romans 7:4) because the law (Torah / 5 Books of Moses) is entirely in relation to the generations of Adam in the flesh and when we are dead to ourselves and buried into Christ's baptism we have died to the old Adam whose understanding was detailed in the law through the veil, as the shadow of what was to come in Christ.
As shown though the scriptures earlier you have taken your scriptures from context to apply an interpretation to them they are not making. Once context is added back as shown with Galatians 2:19 in post # 120 linked, we can see that the context Paul uses to being "dead to the law" is to seeking our righteousness from the law because we have all sinned and our righteousness is only by faith in Christ. Paul goes on to say in Romans 3:31 that faith does not abolish Gods' law it establishes Gods law. While your use of Romans 7:5 when context is added back in as shown the scriptures posted in post # 120 linked is talking about being that being dead is in reference to being dead to sin and not the law while Paul calls the law Holy just and good in Romans 6:1-23; Romans 7:1-25 and Romans 8:1-5. So to say that we are now dead to the law and are not free to break Gods' law is an unbiblical teaching of lawlessness which is simply not biblical and is a teaching of lies that has it's foundation in Genesis 3:1-5 as does Universalism.

Take Care.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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Not really. If Universalism was true there was no need for Christ to die. Universalism makes a mockery of the death of God's dear son and counts the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Hebrews 10:26-31. God's salvation according to the scriptures is conditional to believing and following what God's Word says and we know what happened to the wicked at the second coming.
Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Romans 6:3-4


If, for us, our new life is based on the death and resurrection of Christ, it would be for everyone who is saved.

Now, if you would be saying that without the baptism into Christ's death (belief in this lifetime) they would not be able to be included, the example of the thief on the cross does show that, in scripture, this isn't universally true, as Christ had the power to tell that thief he would be with Him in paradise, because at that time the thief believed.

So, the question becomes, is it possible for a person to believe, the moment before they die, and be saved? Can a person face God in that very last second, and, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, be changed?

I am aware of my complete inability to answer that question with any sense of certainty.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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If you don't mind me saying, you are repeating posts. People are trying to engage with you but you are not listening. Remember, God gave you two ears but only one keyboard.
I am certainly listening and addressing everything in discussion. What is it that you disagree with and why (scripture please)?
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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As shown though the scriptures earlier you have taken your scriptures from context to apply an interpretation to them they are not making. Once context is added back as shown with Galatians 2:19 in post # 120 linked, we can see that the context Paul uses to being "dead to the law" is to seeking our righteousness from the law because we have all sinned and our righteousness is only by faith in Christ. Paul goes on to say in Romans 3:31 that faith does not abolish Gods' law it establishes Gods law. While your use of Romans 7:5 when context is added back in as shown the scriptures posted in post # 120 linked is talking about being that being dead is in reference to being dead to sin and not the law while Paul calls the law Holy just and good in Romans 6:1-23; Romans 7:1-25 and Romans 8:1-5. So to say that we are now dead to the law and are not free to break Gods' law is an unbiblical teaching of lawlessness which is simply not biblical and is a teaching of lies that has it's foundation in Genesis 3:1-5 as does Universalism.

Take Care.
Do you believe that you, yourself, are dead to the law?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Romans 6:3-4


If, for us, our new life is based on the death and resurrection of Christ, it would be for everyone who is saved.

Now, if you would be saying that without the baptism into Christ's death (belief in this lifetime) they would not be able to be included, the example of the thief on the cross does show that, in scripture, this isn't universally true, as Christ had the power to tell that thief he would be with Him in paradise, because at that time the thief believed.

So, the question becomes, is it possible for a person to believe, the moment before they die, and be saved? Can a person face God in that very last second, and, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, be changed?

I am aware of my complete inability to answer that question with any sense of certainty.

As shown already in post # 126 linked, the application of death to the old man in Christ is to sin, not the law. All the law does is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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As shown already in post # 126 linked, the application of death to the old man in Christ is to sin, not the law. All the law does is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken.
In that post I was talking about actual physical death and whether a person is able to believe at the very moment they take their last breath on earth.
 
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Do you believe that you, yourself, are dead to the law?
See previous posts from post # 126 linked, and post # 120 linked, your application to "dead to the law" in your post is not biblical as shown when the context is provided in the linked posts. We are to be dead to the law for seeking our own righteousness but also dead to sin which is the transgression of the law and not believing and following what Gods' Word says according to the scriptures *1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23. All God's law does is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 and is why Paul says that the law is holy just and good *Romans 7:12.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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