Are non-Jewish Christians commanded to keep the 7th Day Sabbath

Der Alte said:

Have you read the New Testament.

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Why, yes, I have. Thank you for asking. It is very good reading.

Der Alte said:

Those who choose to gain their salvation by the law are free to do so but there is no scriptural mandate for Christians to try to use the Bible as a club and force others to observe the Seventh day Sabbath.

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Club and force? Just magnification of simple biblical warnings.

Der Alte said:

Jesus is our Passover.
1 Corinthians 5:7
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:Jesus is our firstfruits.
1 Corinthians 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.Jesus is our Sabbath,
Matthew 11:28
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

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It's a nice little arrangement, but the last one is strictly eisegesis.

LoveGodsWord said:

Your response here...

Actually no it is not a strawman argument at all. The point being made in the part post you are quoting from is that Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many to break Gods' 4th commandment. This was applied to Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments which is in response to the OP and Matthew 15:2-9 where Jesus says that if we knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God. This of course begs the question. If there is no scripture that says Gods' 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest, who are we following God or man?

Take Care.

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Gathering on Sunday to celebrate the Lord’s resurrection is an apostolic tradition which we have an apostolic command to “stand fast and hold to”:

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold to the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or our epistle.

Please Cite the scripture that commands we must not gather to celebrate the Lord’s resurrection on Sunday, and explain why you believe the apostles continually violated that command.

parousia70 said:

Gathering on Sunday to celebrate the Lord’s resurrection is an apostolic tradition which we have an apostolic command to “stand fast and hold to”:

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold to the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or our epistle.

Please Cite the scripture that commands we must not gather to celebrate the Lord’s resurrection on Sunday, and explain why you believe the apostles continually violated that command.

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The disciples gathered together everyday of the week according to the scriptures... Acts of the Apostles 2:46-47 [46], And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,[47], Praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. That of course does not mean that God's 4th commandment is abolished and every day of the week is now a holy day does it? There is nothing wrong with tradition if it is supported in scripture. However, there is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. According to Jesus when tradition becomes bad is when it leads us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God. Jesus (not me) says that if we knowingly follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:2-9. This begs the question who should we believe and follow God or man? You quote 2 Thessalonians 2:15 but you do not see that in the very scripture you quote the tradition that is being talked about is one that is taught from the Word of God. There is no truth outside of Gods' Word according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4; 1 John 2:3-4.

Take Care.

Der Alte said:

Please show me one verse in the NT which commands non-Jewish Christians must observe the seventh day Sabbath.

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It would make no difference. You have already been provided scripture throughout this thread which you continue to ignore and disregard. I am happy though to post the links of the posts. If you are seriously interested please let me know and I will post the links to the scriptures your disregarding. If not of course you are free to believe as you wish as that is between you and God and we will have to agree to disagree.

Take Care.

SabbathBlessings said:

I prefer to just follow scripture.

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That's what Christians do, no one here is saying you don't.

Norbert L said:

That's what Christians do, no one here is saying you don't.

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Knowingly breaking anyone of Gods' 10 commandments according to the scriptures is not following scripture *James 2:10-11; Matthew 7:21-23; James 4:17; Hebrews 10:26-31.

LoveGodsWord said:

The scriptures are indeed there for all to see so not much more needs to be said....

HEBREWS 4:1-11
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], FOR WE WHICH HAVE BELIEVED DO ENTER INTO REST, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: ALTHOUGH THE WORKS WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.

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The "rest" spoken of is Jesus Himself.

SkyWriting said:

The "rest" spoken of is Jesus Himself.

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There is no scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath. That is not biblical. According to the scriptures Jesus is the Lord and creator of the Sabbath that he made for all mankind *Mark 2:27-28. The only definition of the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment in the scriptures is that the Sabbath is the "seventh day" of creation that God commands us to keep as a holy day of rest. Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God... Your mixing up the rest we receive through believing and following God's Word with Gods "seventh day" Sabbath of the creation week that is a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth and one of God's 4th commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20.

Take Care.

LoveGodsWord said:

There is no scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath. That is not biblical.

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The old Sabbath observance is listed as "Obsolete" and I imagine the definition of "Obsolete" is similar to current usage of the word, though I've not looked into it.

SkyWriting said:

The old Sabbath observance is listed as "Obsolete" and I imagine the definition is similar to current usage of the word, though I've not looked into it.

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Then we have what Gods' word says...
Hebrews 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

LoveGodsWord said:

Then we have what Gods' word says...
Hebrews 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

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The new one, not the obsolete one regarding sunshine and dewdrops.

SkyWriting said:

The new one, not the obsolete one regarding sunshine and dewdrops.

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According to the scriptures God's law is not obsolete. Everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant (scripture support) as the standard of Christian living and taught by Jesus and the Apostles in the new testament (scripture support). God's 10 commandments have the same role they always had according to the new covenant scriptures and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25 and made free to walk in God's Spirit as we believe God's Word *Romans 3:31; Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4. If God's law was abolished we would have no knowledge of what sin is. If we have no knowledge of what sin is we have no need of God's salvation. If we have no need of God's salvation we have no need of a Savior. If we have no need of a Savior from our sins we are lost because we are still in our sins. The scripture is then fulfilled "And you will not come to me, that you might have life." John 5:49. God's law is the teacher that leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith to receive God's forgiveness and why Jesus says in Matthew 9:12-13 They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick but go you and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. If we throw away our lamp we have no light to find our way when the road is dark and narrow. God's Word does not teach lawlessness (without law). Your teachings are not biblical or supported with scripture.

Take Care.

LoveGodsWord said:

There is no scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath. That is not biblical. According to the scriptures Jesus is the Lord and creator of the Sabbath that he made for all mankind *Mark 2:27-28. The only definition of the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment in the scriptures is that the Sabbath is the "seventh day" of creation that God commands us to keep as a holy day of rest. Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God... Your mixing up the rest we receive through believing and following God's Word with Gods "seventh day" Sabbath of the creation week that is a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth and one of God's 4th commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20.

Take Care.

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Those obsolete observances are all in the past. Like stoning prostitutes and slaughtering animals for forgiveness.

LoveGodsWord said:

According to the scriptures God's law is not obsolete. Everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant (scripture support) as the standard of Christian living and taught by Jesus and the Apostles in the new testament (scripture support). God's 10 commandments have the same role they always had according to the new covenant scriptures and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25 and made free to walk in God's Spirit as we believe God's Word *Romans 3:31; Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4. If God's law was abolished we would have no knowledge of what sin is. If we have no knowledge of what sin is we have no need of God's salvation. If we have no need of God's salvation we have no need of a Savior. If we have no need of a Savior from our sins we are lost because we are still in our sins. The scripture is then fulfilled "And you will not come to me, that you might have life." John 5:49. God's law is the teacher that leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith to receive God's forgiveness and why Jesus says in Matthew 9:12-13 They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick but go you and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. If we throw away our lamp we have no light to find our way when the road is dark and narrow. God's Word does not teach lawlessness (without law). Your teachings are not biblical or supported with scripture.

Take Care.

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If you follow the ten commandments, you die.

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

Galatians 5:14
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word:
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


See? No sunspots and dewdrops.

SabbathBlessings said:

The greatest commandments that Jesus repeated from the Old Testament do not delete the Ten Commandments. What you are teaching here is not biblical. The Ten Commandments is our moral duty to God and neighbor and how we show love to God by obeying Commandments 1-4 Exodus 20:6, John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3. Commandments 5-10 is how we are morally supposed to treat our neighbor. I do find it amazing the extremes people are willing to try to delete the Ten Commandments that God personally spoke and wrote with His own finger and stored in the Most holy of His Temple. I know someone else who does not love God's commandments and he was thrown out of heaven.

Revelations tells us the God's saints keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus 14:12 so no the Ten Commandments have not been deleted.

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My point stands - the Decalogue only limits the amount of harm you do, and does not command any positive deeds to help anyone, but the two love commands do.

The only love in the Decalogue is towards God, there’s no love for your neighbor in it.

In 2 Corinthians chapter three, where Paul says the apostles are the ministers of the new covenant and the law of the Spirit that gives life, which he compares with the ten commands, given to Moses on the mountain, that brings death..


The Ten Commands are called the ministration of DEATH, the letter which KILLS, and the ministration of CONDEMNATION.


2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the NEW testament; not of the letter, but of the SPIRIT : for the letter KILLETH , but the spirit giveth life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration OF DEATH written andengraven in stones (The Ten Commandments) was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glorywas to be DONE AWAY:

2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation beglory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Co 3:11 For if that which is DONE AWAY wasglorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious

SkyWriting said:

Those obsolete observances are all in the past. Like stoning prostitutes and slaughtering animals for forgiveness.

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Already addressed with a detailed scripture response showing why your teachings of lawlessness (without law) is not biblical. See post #134 linked. We should be careful not to read into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say and do not teach. What is it in the linked post and scriptures provided there that you disagree with and why (scripture please)?

SkyWriting said:

If you follow the ten commandments, you die.

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

Galatians 5:14
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word:
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


See? No sunspots and dewdrops.

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No. According to the scriptures if you live a life of known unrepentant sin you will die *Hebrews 10:26-31. According to the scripture love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law. So we do not love God by breaking his law we love God by keeping those laws that show us how we are to love God with all of our soul heart and mind and our neighbor as our self.

What God Word says...

Matthew 22:36-40 [36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Jesus is not saying that love is separate from God's law he is says that on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets which is what Gods' Word says that are not my words but Gods' Word which have been simply repeated to you verbatim. Paul agrees with Jesus when he says...

Romans 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another hath fulfilled the law [past tense]. [9], FOR THIS (or what this means), THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP IN THE SAYING, NAMELY THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS YOUR SELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law [present tense active].

Paul is agreeing with Jesus and not saying that love is separate from God's law he is says that love is expressed in obedience to Gods law and says that if we love another we will obey those commandments in God's 10 commandments (letter of the law) that show us how we are to love our fellow man by quoting those commandments verbatim. Paul is showing that to love our neighbor as our self is simply summing up those commandments in God's law that show us how we are to love our fellow man. These once again are God's Word not my words which have only been repeated to you from the scriptures. James also agrees with Jesus and Paul where he says...

James 2:8-12 [8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:[9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

James agrees with Jesus and Paul where he links loving our neighbor as our self to obedience to all those commandments in Gods 10 commandments (letter of the law) that show us our duty of love to our neighbor. Once again these are God's Word not my words which have only been repeated to you from the scriptures verbatim. John also agrees with Jesus Paul and James where he says...

1 John 5:2-3 [2], By this we know that we love the children of God, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [3], FOR THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

John also agreeing with Jesus, Paul, James and John (5x different witnesses from the scriptures including Jesus) all in agreement showing that love is not separate from obedience to Gods' law. Love is expressed in obedience to God's law which fulfills the letter of the law.

Are you seriously going to try and argue here that we can love God while breaking his commandments?

For example considering what Paul says above in Romans 13:8-10; Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; James in James 2:8-10 and John in 1 John 5:2-3 etc as shown in the post above this one, in your view....

Do you love God by having other Gods?
Do you love God by making idols and bowing down to worship them?
Do you love God by taking Gods' name in vain?
Do you love God by breaking his holy Sabbath day?
Do you love your parents by dishonoring them?
Do you love your neighbor by killing them?
Do you love your neighbor by committing adultery with their spouse?
Do you love your neighbor by stealing from them?
Do you love your neighbor by lying to them?
Do you love your neighbor by coveting their belongings?

Hope this adds some clarity to the discussion. The above are all the letter of the law which love is expressed in obedience through in the Spirit of the law which is God's new covenant promise from Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 in all those who have been born of the Spirit to believe and follow God's Word *Galatians 5:16; 1 John 3:6-9.

God's Word does not teach the false doctrine of lawlessness. This teaching is unbiblical and not supported in the scriptures. Only Gods' Word is true therefore according to the scriptures and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29

Take Care

chad kincham said:

My point stands - the Decalogue only limits the amount of harm you do, and does not command any positive deeds to help anyone, but the two love commands do.

The only love in the Decalogue is towards God, there’s no love for your neighbor in it.

In 2 Corinthians chapter three, where Paul says the apostles are the ministers of the new covenant and the law of the Spirit that gives life, which he compares with the ten commands, given to Moses on the mountain, that brings death..


The Ten Commands are called the ministration of DEATH, the letter which KILLS, and the ministration of CONDEMNATION.


2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the NEW testament; not of the letter, but of the SPIRIT : for the letter KILLETH , but the spirit giveth life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration OF DEATH written andengraven in stones (The Ten Commandments) was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glorywas to be DONE AWAY:

2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation beglory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Co 3:11 For if that which is DONE AWAY wasglorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious

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No one is telling you to get your righteousness from the letter of the law. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. So what is your argument here? You have none.