Are non-Jewish Christians commanded to keep the 7th Day Sabbath

ChetSinger · Sep 22, 2021

MMXX said:
Something else that crossed my mind the way she's going on about those who used to keep the Sabbath was probably her mistaken belief that the early Christian church kept the Saturday sabbath until Constantine changed it, making Sunday worship the Mark of the Beast. Of course we know based on the writings of the early church fathers, that the early church did not keep the 7th day sabbath, from the beginning way before Constantine. I could excuse her lack of knowledge regarding church history, but this stuff was supposed to have come from an angel.

I agree. Myself, I don't think there ever was an angel. For example, here's another sabbath-related vision:

In the ark was the golden pot of manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of stone which folded together like a book. Jesus opened them, and I saw the ten commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were four, and on the other six. The four on the first table shone brighter than the other six. But the fourth, the Sabbath commandment, shone above them all; for the Sabbath was set apart to be kept in honor of God’s holy name. The holy Sabbath looked glorious—a halo of glory was all around it. - Ellen G. White, Early Writings

I think she gets the geometry of the tablets wrong. In her vision they're written on one side so the commandments are hidden when they're folded together. And in Christian artwork that's how they almost always appear. But in Exodus the tablets are written on both sides:

Then Moses turned and went down from the mountain with the two tablets of the testimony in his hand, tablets that were written on both sides; on the front and on the back they were written. Exodus 32:15

I think she based her vision on the Christian iconography that she saw around her. But that iconography doesn't actually match the text.

namohcam · Sep 22, 2021

MMXX said:
Something else that crossed my mind the way she's going on about those who used to keep the Sabbath was probably her mistaken belief that the early Christian church kept the Saturday sabbath until Constantine changed it, making Sunday worship the Mark of the Beast.

No, she was referring to those who had accepted the Sabbath in heart and later rejected it, regardless of the time in history, but especially as God was pouring out His Spirit during the 2nd Great Awakening.

MMXX said:
Of course we know based on the writings of the early church fathers, that the early church did not keep the 7th day sabbath, from the beginning way before Constantine.

As much as we owe to them for their wisdom and instruction, much of what early church fathers wrote was ill-informed and anecdotal. I believe I've seen research to attest to that.

namohcam · Sep 22, 2021

ChetSinger said:
I agree. Myself, I don't think there ever was an angel. For example, here's another sabbath-related vision:

In the ark was the golden pot of manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of stone which folded together like a book. Jesus opened them, and I saw the ten commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were four, and on the other six. The four on the first table shone brighter than the other six. But the fourth, the Sabbath commandment, shone above them all; for the Sabbath was set apart to be kept in honor of God’s holy name. The holy Sabbath looked glorious—a halo of glory was all around it. - Ellen G. White, Early Writings

I think she gets the geometry of the tablets wrong. In her vision they're written on one side so the commandments are hidden when they're folded together. And in Christian artwork that's how they almost always appear. But in Exodus the tablets are written on both sides:

Then Moses turned and went down from the mountain with the two tablets of the testimony in his hand, tablets that were written on both sides; on the front and on the back they were written. Exodus 32:15

I think she based her vision on the Christian iconography that she saw around her. But that iconography doesn't actually match the text.

Visions don't always depict reality. God constructs them as He sees fit for His purpose at the time. They are often object lessons. This is the case with Old and New Testament prophets, as well.

ChetSinger · Sep 22, 2021

namohcam said:
Visions don't always depict reality. God constructs them as He sees fit for His purpose at the time. They are often object lessons. This is the case with Old and New Testament prophets, as well.

Just to be clear, I do consider SDA members to be brethren in the Lord. I just think you guys cut Ellen White way too much slack.

Norbert L · Sep 22, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
If you have scripture that disproves the scripture I provided feel free to post it. To be honest, our opinions really do not mean much when it comes to the Word of God.

Already did, you entered the conversation afterward.

Der Alte · Sep 22, 2021

Norbert L said:
... for your servant will no longer offer either burnt offering or sacrifice to other gods, but to the LORD. Yet in this thing may the Lord pardon your servant: when my master goes into the temple of Rimmon to worship there, and he leans on my hand, and I bow down in the temple of Rimmon—when I bow down in the temple of Rimmon, may the Lord please pardon your servant in this thing.”
Then he said to him, “Go in peace.” So he departed from him a short distance.
2 Kings 5:17-19
It's OK not to keep the 7th day sabbath. I'd to would say go in peace, but some won't. Given that this topic has been brewing for centuries.

No, zero, none command in the NT for non-Jewish Christians to keep seventh day Sabbath which was given exclusively to the children of Israel.

Der Alte · Sep 22, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
It seems like there is so much effort trying to disregard the Sabbath by scriptures (that doesn’t disregard the Sabbath commandment) yet no one makes this much effort in finding scripture where God told us to worship Him on the first day. There is no scripture in the entire bible that says God blessed the first day, God made the first day a holy day, God sanctified the first day. It’s not the day Jesus went to the Temple preaching God’s Word or the disciples. It’s not a commandment of God.
God tested Adam and Eve over one tree. We are told the devil deceives the whole world. Has anyone considered the Sabbath day could be our test and our second chance?
These are the facts.
1. God blessed and sanctified the seventh day from Creation Genesis 2:1-3
2. God commanded an entire nations to keep holy the seventh day Exodus 20:8 along with the other commandments
3. God not only spoke His holy laws He personally wrote them on stone because of its eternal nature and this is the only scripture in the entire Bible where God personally spoke and wrote scripture. Exodus 34:28
4. God stored the Ten Commandments that He personally wrote in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy of God’s Temple. God had a Temple on Earth and a has a Temple in Heaven which also has the ark of the covenant and we know what is inside Revelations 11:19
5. God’s will for us is not different on earth as it is in heaven. Read the Lord’s Prayer
6. God’s holy laws are universal and eternal. The first tablet is our moral duty and how we are to love God. The second tablet is how we are to treat and love our neighbor.
7. The Sabbath is the only commandment where God wrote Remember but yet everyone wants us to forget. Doesn’t that seem odd to you? Are all knowing Creator left us another clue for those willing to do His will and not their own. Who do you think really wants us to forgot the holy day of the Lord?
8. In the Bible the day God claims as His holy day is the seventh day. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13. This cannot be more clearer in scripture. Be honest with yourself- do you think God wants you to worship Him on a day that is Holy to Him or a day He deemed a working day? Exodus 20:9
9. God does not change Malachi 3:6
10. Daniel predicted the 4th commandment would be changed Daniel 7:25. The Sabbath is the only commandment that is both a law (4th commandment) and time (every seventh day) and was changed by man not God. I can provide many references for anyone who is interested about the change of God’s Sabbath. It is outside the Bible and the Institution that changed God’s Sabbath day from Sabbath to Sunday admit they did so without any biblical authority as predicted by Daniel.
11. Jesus came to magnify God’s laws and came to do the will of His Father. Isaiah 42:21. Does magnify mean to make smaller or greater? Jesus did not come to destroy God’s law and not once did Jesus tell us we no longer need to keep the 4th commandment. Instead He kept the Sabbath commandment AS OUR EXAMPLE going to Temple as His custom on the Sabbath reading God’s Word. Luke 4:16, John 15:10
12. We are going to worship our Lord and Savior every Sabbath on the New Earth Isaiah 66:23 not Sunday and we do not have a God of confusion. The Sabbath is mentioned over 170 times in scripture and is the only day God made holy for Him and for us. God said the Sabbath would be a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 and we see that fulfilled in Isaiah 66:23. Again God says His will for us is not different in Heaven than it is on earth.
For those fighting against God’s Sabbath so much you really should ask yourself this question. If you do not want to worship our Lord and Savior NOW on the holy day of the Lord thy God will you in Heaven? The day is not changing nor will it ever change. This will not be new for God’s saints who keep the commandments of God and have the faith in Jesus Revelations 22:14
Does Jesus teach the majority will find the narrow path or the wide path that leads to destruction? We all have time TODAY to follow God in Truth and Spirit. Jesus said not to worship in vain by obeying traditions over commandments, There is no commandment for Sunday keeping but there is for Sabbath keeping Exodus 20:8-11. The choice is for us to make do we follow God’s Word or traditions that leads many to break one of the commandments of God and the one commandment God said to REMEMBER.
God bless

You can ignore all the scripture which has been posted and repeat your same claims over and over and try to bully others. There is no, zero, none command in the NT for gentile Christians to keep the seventh day Sabbath. According to scripture which I quoted and you ignored the Sabbath was given by eternal covenant exclusively to the children of Israel.

Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

namohcam · Sep 22, 2021

ChetSinger said:
Just to be clear, I do consider SDA members to be brethren in the Lord.

It is so very kind of you to say so.

ChetSinger said:
I just think you guys cut Ellen White way too much slack.

Mrs. White's ministry is misunderstood by nearly everyone. But I concede to your view, in general.

namohcam · Sep 22, 2021

Der Alte said:
You can ignore all the scripture which has been posted and repeat your same claims over and over and try to bully others. There is no, zero, none command in the NT for gentile Christians to keep the seventh day Sabbath. According to scripture which I quoted and you ignored the Sabbath was given by eternal covenant exclusively to the children of Israel.

Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 2:13 Parallel: (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

It may seem to be contradictory but we can't just discard it.

namohcam · Sep 22, 2021

Der Alte said:
There is no, zero, none command in the NT for gentile Christians to keep the seventh day Sabbath.

There are also no texts in which the Sabbath is abrogated, nor of its sanctity having been transferred to another day.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 22, 2021

Der Alte said:
You can ignore all the scripture which has been posted and repeat your same claims over and over and try to bully others. There is no, zero, none command in the NT for gentile Christians to keep the seventh day Sabbath. According to scripture which I quoted and you ignored the Sabbath was given by eternal covenant exclusively to the children of Israel.

Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

I am sorry you feel sharing scripture is bulling others. Maybe that is your own conscience trying to talk to you? I have not ignored any scripture but I posted a plethora of scripture on my posts that I has yet to be addressed.

Gal 2:16 Is not saying that the 4th commandment is deleted. We are not saved by keeping the law. We are saved by God's grace though our faith. We are judged though by our actions of right-doings and wrong doings. 2 Corinthians 5:10

Obiendence to God's law is a fruit of our faith which of course includes the 4th commandment, the holy day of the Lord thy God.

Honestly all I am doing is trying to help. What if all the scriptures I posted are true and God really meant we are to REMEMBER and keep holy the Sabbath day as He commanded Exodus 20:-8-11 shown by Jesus as our example. Luke 4:16, Matthew 15:10 you break the least commandment and teach others Jesus had some warnings Matthew 5:19, Matthew 15:3-9

I think it's important to get it right and I am sorry if you do not agree.

namohcam · Sep 22, 2021

Sabbath and the Gospel

Sabbath

Sabbath is a time of rest as we remember that our Creator called us to rest in his goodness and grace. But how does Sabbath interact with the bigger picture of the gospel? Sabbath began at the creation of the world. God declared his power and authority over time and space by resting from the work that he had done. Adam and Eve followed this same pattern of rest in the Garden of Eden. There was wholeness in Sabbath rest because it created a set-apart time. This set apart time was declaring that man is given freedom from work through God’s rest. God created this sacred space and sacred time set apart from all the rest of time in order to bring wholeness to his creation.

God next gave the people of Israel the mandate to follow Sabbath as a gift and a provision for their tangible and spiritual needs. He gave them twice as much manna in the wilderness of Sinai so they could rest on Sabbath. This was not given to the people out of a religious “saved by works” mandate, but rather meant to declare His imminence and give the people of Israel the conviction that they were set apart as a nation for something more. They were to declare the goodness of the Living God to the rest of the nations. They were to reflect this in their daily practices and new hearts in the LORD.

Jesus in the Sabbath

When God became flesh and dwelt among us in the form of Jesus, He kept Sabbath. In addition to keeping the Sabbath, he performed miracles on the Sabbath, and taught and preached and cast out demons on Saturday. He was designating his power over Sabbath and his authority over time, just as he had when he created the world. He was showing us what life in the age to come would look like. Today, as followers of Jesus, keeping Sabbath is a practical expression of following God’s mandate of rest as well as living as Jesus lived.

Sabbath invites us to see gospel restoration. This leads to us adjusting our schedules so that we can be restored, and then extend that life to other people so that they can be restored. We are given the hope that someday we will rest in eternity with Jesus and be forever with him. Sabbath strengthens the hope that we will be resurrected and that His promise will be true.

Sabbath in History

Jesus’ disciples, His apostles, the early church and believers for centuries have all received the gift of stepping into this seventh day sanctuary. Today, we do the same. We do not celebrate Sabbath as some religious attempt to find God through it, but rather to see His lovingkindness in it. Sabbath is a moment in time when we cease from work and rest. We lay down the cares of this world, rejoice in the beauty of sharing life with others, and consider God’s goodness in our lives. All of this is a part of the bigger gospel story that God has been telling since the beginning of time: we were created to worship Him and enjoy Him forever. Sabbath is the loving provision God gave to us to see His goodness and kindness.

namohcam · Sep 22, 2021

Luke 4:16 Parallel: And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

1 John 2:6 Parallel: He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Romans 3:31 Parallel: Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Just quoting the Bible here.

BobRyan · Sep 22, 2021

Der Alte said:
All ten commandments are repeated in the NT as required by believers except for #4,

Not true - the Sabbath commandment is quoted from at least 4 times in the NT. The one that is never quoted from in the New Testament is the 3rd "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- which of course does not matter since there is no such thing as a doctrine in the Bible telling us "whatever is not repeated should be deleted" - therefor it is "still a sin" for Christians to take God's name in vain - even in the NT.

Der Alte · Sep 22, 2021

namohcam said:
Romans 2:13 Parallel: (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
It may seem to be contradictory but we can't just discard it.

Have you read the New Testament.

Romans 14:4-6
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Those who choose to gain their salvation by the law are free to do so but there is no scriptural mandate for Christians to try to use the Bible as a club and force others to observe the Seventh day Sabbath.
Jesus is our Passover.

1 Corinthians 5:7
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Jesus is our firstfruits.

1 Corinthians 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Jesus is our Sabbath,

Matthew 11:28
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

BobRyan · Sep 22, 2021

Der Alte said:
The 4th commandment was given exclusively to the children of Israel.

Not true according to Christ "the Sabbath was made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
"Mankind shall not live by bread alone" Matt 4.

Gentiles were specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping in Is 56:6 -
"all mankind" is to keep Sabbath for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

Jews/Israel - are part of "mankind"
.

Isaiah 56:
6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To attend to His service and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps the Sabbath so as not to profane it,
And holds firmly to My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

Der Alte · Sep 22, 2021

BobRyan said:
Not true - the Sabbath commandment is quoted from at least 4 times in the NT. The one that is never quoted from in the New Testament is the 3rd "do no take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- which of course does not matter since there is no such thing as a doctrine in the Bible telling us "whatever is not repeated should be deleted" - therefor it is "still a sin" for Christians to take God's name in vain - even in the NT.

Not sure about others but I have found it very helpful to actually read a post before trying to answer it. You did NOT read my post. I said the 4th commandment is not given in the NT as required by gentile Christians.

BobRyan · Sep 22, 2021

Der Alte said:
Have you read the New Testament.

Romans 14:4-6

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day

Does not emphasize "not esteeming any day"

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.

"esteem" the day and "regard" the day are equated by Paul in Rom 14.

One man regards one of the bible approved annual holy days of Lev 23 - above the others while another man regards them all.

By contrast in Gal 4:8-10 observing even one pagan day is condemned which means "observing every day of the year" is not allowed.

ChetSinger · Sep 22, 2021

Der Alte said:
Not sure about others but I have found it very helpful to actually read a post before trying to answer it. You did NOT read my post. I said the 4th commandment is not given in the NT as required by gentile Christians.

Ellen White seems to have admitted as much:

A tithe of our income is “holy unto the Lord.” The New Testament does not re-enact the law of the tithe, as it does not that of the Sabbath; for the validity of both is assumed. - Ellen White - The Faith I Live By

BobRyan · Sep 22, 2021

Der Alte said:
Jesus is our Passover.

1 Corinthians 5:7
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

That is true - the Bible does say "Jesus is our passover" in 1 Cor 5:7

Der Alte said:
Jesus is our firstfruits.

1 Corinthians 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Cor 15 does not say "Jesus is THE firstfruits".
He was resurrected on the feast of first fruits.

Der Alte said:
Jesus is our Sabbath,

Matthew 11:28
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Matt 11:28 does not say "Jesus is our Sabbath". Rather for that claim we read your comment -because it is not in the text you quote.

Are non-Jewish Christians commanded to keep the 7th Day Sabbath

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