Refusing to be vaccinated against Covid-19 is a ’sin’ & anti-vaxxers must spend their life repenting

rusmeister · Sep 21, 2021

Dorothea said:
Sorry. Over the past decade, I’ve learned too many terrible and dark things about our government’s history to cheerlead my country. I know that sounds awful. But I grew up in a conservative military household, living on bases where the National Anthem played through loud speakers both morning and evening (start and end of work day for the military members), went to the base theaters with the National Anthem played in a patriotic video before each movie, and then married a military member and have lived the life of a dependent military member longer than a civilian, and well, I have nothing against the military obviously. As I said, it’s been a part of most of my life, but things I discovered about my government’s actions, especially the intelligence agencies, woke me up from my hardcore conservative stances on everything - pro intervention wars, capital punishment, trickle down economics, etc. - listened to a bunch of conservative talk radio hosts for years. But all of that started changing in 2009. I believe after letting go of the idol I’d made of my country, its flag, and I became close to my church then, God was able to reach me, and my thoughts changed on these things and then in 2013, some other disturbing things about my government and intel agencies left me feeling angry, upset, and shocked. Since then, I’ve been pretty critical of my country’s political systems and the two things I’ve already mentioned, so I rather follow Mother Gavrilia who said we’re all travelers on this earth. Yes, this is the country in which I was born, and I am glad I was born here and appreciate things about it, but I don’t have any affection or nationalistic attachment to it. I suppose I’m a bit patriotic because questioning our government is considered patriotic. That’s about it.

Hi, Dot, (if I may so address you)
What you are saying seems to boil down to my second paragraph, that the government is highly corrupt, and you discovered this a little over a decade ago. We agree. No argument. But that’s actually not the same thing as what I said in my first paragraph. I live in Russia. I know what it’s like to NOT have our Bill of Rights as something I can stand on. I do not take loud public stands over here. Both because I am not a citizen, and because I don’t have all the rights we take for granted, nor do the citizens.

You can be sad and not love what your country is doing in your name, and still love your country. Love doesn’t mean “approve”. CS Lewis said, “Love desires the betterment of the beloved.” A patriot loves his country in that sense, even when he is ashamed of what it has done. You were raised, if I understand rightly, in a jingoistic form of patriotism, and it is right to reject that kind, which says “My country can do no wrong”, because we know that it can. Nationalism must logically mean believing in the worth of the nation. It can be good or bad. Jingoism is a bad form. But just because some people want us to react like Pavlov's dogs, here, with an automatic snarl, like with “discrimination”, as they would have us wag our tails when we hear “diversity”, “inclusive”, etc.
But discrimination can be good and necessary. And nationalism can be good as a thing that opposes imperialism, which is what America’s foreign policy has been. That is why they have heaped so much scorn on the word “nationalism”, and treat it like a dirty word, because they recognize it as an enemy to their ambitions to rule the world.
So you’re basically right. I think you’ve just been thinking about it inaccurately. You do love your country, in the sad sense. And you certainly love the land and the people, starting with your with your family, friends and neighbors. So you are right to oppose the new imperialism, aka “globalism”, and are, in that sense, a lover of your own nation and taking care of what goes on inside our own borders, (if we can to any extent).

Dorothea · Sep 21, 2021

rusmeister said:
Hi, Dot, (if I may so address you)
What you are saying seems to boil down to my second paragraph, that the government is highly corrupt, and you discovered this a little over a decade ago. We agree. No argument. But that’s actually not the same thing as what I said in my first paragraph. I live in Russia. I know what it’s like to NOT have our Bill of Rights as something I can stand on. I do not take loud public stands over here. Both because I am not a citizen, and because I don’t have all the rights we take for granted, nor do the citizens.

You can be sad and not love what your country is doing in your name, and still love your country. Love doesn’t mean “approve”. CS Lewis said, “Love desires the betterment of the beloved.” A patriot loves his country in that sense, even when he is ashamed of what it has done. You were raised, if I understand rightly, in a jingoistic form of patriotism, and it is right to reject that kind, which says “My country can do no wrong”, because we know that it can. Nationalism must logically mean believing in the worth of the nation. It can be good or bad. Jingoism is a bad form. But just because some people want us to react like Pavlov's dogs, here, with an automatic snarl, like with “discrimination”, as they would have us wag our tails when we hear “diversity”, “inclusive”, etc.
But discrimination can be good and necessary. And nationalism can be good as a thing that opposes imperialism, which is what America’s foreign policy has been. That is why they have heaped so much scorn on the word “nationalism”, and treat it like a dirty word, because they recognize it as an enemy to their ambitions to rule the world.
So you’re basically right. I think you’ve just been thinking about it inaccurately. You do love your country, in the sad sense. And you certainly love the land and the people, starting with your with your family, friends and neighbors. So you are right to oppose the new imperialism, aka “globalism”, and are, in that sense, a lover of your own nation and taking care of what goes on inside our own borders, (if we can to any extent).

Thanks, Rus, for your encouraging post.

Dorothea · Sep 21, 2021

rusmeister said:
Oh, and probably even more important for this thread: who is hip to Project Veritas’s latest whistleblowing video on the vaccine?

Just saw this video mentioned on Dan Dicks' channel called Press for Truth (out of Canada). Then the frightening VAERS reports, and those are a small number, since only around 1% are reported (but a little over half a million adverse reactions so far in that small reporting).

See if you can bring up this video. It's also on bit chute:

https://www.bit chute.com/video/hqxMaL8jD6jn/

**try copying and pasting the link into your url browser and remove the space.

The VAERS reports start around 8:32 mins into the video.

rusmeister · Sep 21, 2021

ArmyMatt said:
as the other member of that conversation I can say that's not entirely true, and especially since after that conversation I had other conversations with you and Fr Andrew. actually, it was in that whole thing where Fr Andrew said that both he and Steve had addressed the Game of Thrones issue.

Hi again! (Since these conversations take place at broken intervals...)

What I mean is that, at the time (whatever was done about it later and without my knowledge) after being heard, my concern about the promotion of inappropriate contentography on an Orthodox ministry was dismissed. At the time, neither of you seem, at the time, to have taken a good look at the television series (even if that was amended later, again, without my knowing about it). I was subsequently blocked by Fr Andrew as if I were a troll seeking to harass him, rather than an honestly concerned member of the Church. That is all quite true, though you can clarify what action you yourself took in the wake of all that. I never saw an apology.

So as I said, if everyone apologized for that, Steve for promoting it, Fr Andrew for not looking into what turned out to be a genuine concern, then fine! I’d like to see that they did with my own ears

, and reconciliation on that point is possible. I had to refuse to hold a grudge and take offense, and would really rejoice to see that I was, in the end, heard. (But if that is really so, it would have been good to let me know at the time.)

But there are a dozen other charges even more serious, and if AFM really wants to be a unifying force in the Orthodox world, they had better respond in a right manner that does not leave things in their current state. Online, I see the tempest growing beyond the teapot, and the cracks now spreading will cause a rift that will divide us more thoroughly than we ever have been. Above all, the continued hosting of those who promote sexual anarchy and challenges to Church Tradition must end, even if they are not openly doing that in the hosted programs, to say nothing of bias and slant in issues that are de facto political, like the St Tikhon’s vaccine interview, bringing that whole mess to this thread, while forbidding a voice to those who really disagree. The current approach to assure everyone that everything is “fine”, etc, is contradicted by said actions.

I’m urging genuine reconciliation (which does mean excluding those who promote “LGBT” and other such, who are still active on AFR despite Fr Andrew’s assurances). That’s why I’m unwilling to publish the laundry list of offenses. But if they deny them, and say they aren’t continuing to happen, well, love without truth is as bad as truth without love. For my part, I’m trying to urge angry people to Christian attitudes. The current attitude of denial guarantees a form of schism, making those who know “it ain’t so” only angrier. Is it itself politically driven by those that fund AFR? Quite possibly. But if we speak the truth in love, then perhaps those bad tendencies might rein themselves in.

rusmeister · Sep 22, 2021

Dorothea said:
Just saw this video mentioned on Dan Dicks' channel called Press for Truth (out of Canada). Then the frightening VAERS reports, and those are a small number, since only around 1% are reported (but a little over half a million adverse reactions so far in that small reporting).

See if you can bring up this video. It's also on bit chute:

https://www.bit chute.com/video/hqxMaL8jD6jn/

**try copying and pasting the link into your url browser and remove the space.

The VAERS reports start around 8:32 mins into the video.

Unfortunately, that site appears to be blocked within Russia, whatever other hosts may do.

prodromos · Sep 22, 2021

rusmeister said:
Unfortunately, that site appears to be blocked within Russia, whatever other hosts may do.

Opera browser has free built in VPN. Maybe try with that?

prodromos · Sep 22, 2021

My mother is now suffering terribly from adverse reactions to the vaccine. This is after her miraculous recovery from severe brain injury almost a year ago. She can now barely walk and is in a lot of pain. Her doctor is clueless and is not able to help her, the same doctor who recommended she get vaccinated. My mum has gone from glorifying God, to wishing she were dead.
My son-in-law is now managing a heart condition that he never had until he got vaccinated.

ArmyMatt · Sep 22, 2021

rusmeister said:
Hi again! (Since these conversations take place at broken intervals...)

What I mean is that, at the time (whatever was done about it later and without my knowledge) after being heard, my concern about the promotion of inappropriate contentography on an Orthodox ministry was dismissed. At the time, neither of you seem, at the time, to have taken a good look at the television series (even if that was amended later, again, without my knowing about it). I was subsequently blocked by Fr Andrew as if I were a troll seeking to harass him, rather than an honestly concerned member of the Church. That is all quite true, though you can clarify what action you yourself took in the wake of all that. I never saw an apology.

So as I said, if everyone apologized for that, Steve for promoting it, Fr Andrew for not looking into what turned out to be a genuine concern, then fine! I’d like to see that they did with my own ears , and reconciliation on that point is possible. I had to refuse to hold a grudge and take offense, and would really rejoice to see that I was, in the end, heard. (But if that is really so, it would have been good to let me know at the time.)

But there are a dozen other charges even more serious, and if AFM really wants to be a unifying force in the Orthodox world, they had better respond in a right manner that does not leave things in their current state. Online, I see the tempest growing beyond the teapot, and the cracks now spreading will cause a rift that will divide us more thoroughly than we ever have been. Above all, the continued hosting of those who promote sexual anarchy and challenges to Church Tradition must end, even if they are not openly doing that in the hosted programs, to say nothing of bias and slant in issues that are de facto political, like the St Tikhon’s vaccine interview, bringing that whole mess to this thread, while forbidding a voice to those who really disagree. The current approach to assure everyone that everything is “fine”, etc, is contradicted by said actions.

I’m urging genuine reconciliation (which does mean excluding those who promote “LGBT” and other such, who are still active on AFR despite Fr Andrew’s assurances). That’s why I’m unwilling to publish the laundry list of offenses. But if they deny them, and say they aren’t continuing to happen, well, love without truth is as bad as truth without love. For my part, I’m trying to urge angry people to Christian attitudes. The current attitude of denial guarantees a form of schism, making those who know “it ain’t so” only angrier. Is it itself politically driven by those that fund AFR? Quite possibly. But if we speak the truth in love, then perhaps those bad tendencies might rein themselves in.

except at the time Fr Andrew had said that he and Steve had already said that they weren't promoting inappropriate content and you weren't being dismissed. I didn't even really speak in that conversation, as I didn't really think it involved me.

I was well aware of how bad GoT is, as my buddies kept trying to get me to watch it when I was in Afghanistan. the action that I took was one I was ordered to as I was ordained, and the OCA updated its social media policy.

truefiction1 · Sep 22, 2021

rusmeister said:
Hi again! (Since these conversations take place at broken intervals...)

What I mean is that, at the time (whatever was done about it later and without my knowledge) after being heard, my concern about the promotion of inappropriate contentography on an Orthodox ministry was dismissed. At the time, neither of you seem, at the time, to have taken a good look at the television series (even if that was amended later, again, without my knowing about it). I was subsequently blocked by Fr Andrew as if I were a troll seeking to harass him, rather than an honestly concerned member of the Church. That is all quite true, though you can clarify what action you yourself took in the wake of all that. I never saw an apology.

So as I said, if everyone apologized for that, Steve for promoting it, Fr Andrew for not looking into what turned out to be a genuine concern, then fine! I’d like to see that they did with my own ears , and reconciliation on that point is possible. I had to refuse to hold a grudge and take offense, and would really rejoice to see that I was, in the end, heard. (But if that is really so, it would have been good to let me know at the time.)

But there are a dozen other charges even more serious, and if AFM really wants to be a unifying force in the Orthodox world, they had better respond in a right manner that does not leave things in their current state. Online, I see the tempest growing beyond the teapot, and the cracks now spreading will cause a rift that will divide us more thoroughly than we ever have been. Above all, the continued hosting of those who promote sexual anarchy and challenges to Church Tradition must end, even if they are not openly doing that in the hosted programs, to say nothing of bias and slant in issues that are de facto political, like the St Tikhon’s vaccine interview, bringing that whole mess to this thread, while forbidding a voice to those who really disagree. The current approach to assure everyone that everything is “fine”, etc, is contradicted by said actions.

I’m urging genuine reconciliation (which does mean excluding those who promote “LGBT” and other such, who are still active on AFR despite Fr Andrew’s assurances). That’s why I’m unwilling to publish the laundry list of offenses. But if they deny them, and say they aren’t continuing to happen, well, love without truth is as bad as truth without love. For my part, I’m trying to urge angry people to Christian attitudes. The current attitude of denial guarantees a form of schism, making those who know “it ain’t so” only angrier. Is it itself politically driven by those that fund AFR? Quite possibly. But if we speak the truth in love, then perhaps those bad tendencies might rein themselves in.

There won't be reconciliation, unfortunately.

rusmeister · Sep 22, 2021

ArmyMatt said:
except at the time Fr Andrew had said that he and Steve had already said that they weren't promoting inappropriate content and you weren't being dismissed. I didn't even really speak in that conversation, as I didn't really think it involved me.

I was well aware of how bad GoT is, as my buddies kept trying to get me to watch it when I was in Afghanistan. the action that I took was one I was ordered to as I was ordained, and the OCA updated its social media policy.

That’s why I never said anything about what you did. You explained yourself to me, and so while it was unpleasant, I was able to get over it. You were ordered, had no choice, the order was lawful, it’s over.

At the time, though... that’s a key phrase, whatever happened afterward. At the time, Steve’s podcast was up - and still is - Episode 38: Good and Evil in Game of Thrones - Pop Culture Coffee Hour | Ancient Faith Ministries

They can say they were not promoting inappropriate content, but if they were to tell me about an X-rated Art house film, and that we ought to see it, then yes, they would be and are promoting inappropriate content, however unintentionally. A complex and fascinating story with plenty of inappropriate contentographic content. I don’t see how you could claim that promoting GOT is not promoting inappropriate content. Fr Andrew wasn’t directly doing promotion of it, Steve was, and they (including Bobby Maddox) didn’t want to look into it and see that what I said was true and that they ought to have pulled it. AND Fr Andrew blocked me on his page (which is still active). That is how I got ignored. Their actions matter to me far more than their words. What they say is meaningless, since the podcast is still up. True, they themselves don’t describe any inappropriate contentography in detail, but they are telling Orthodox people to go out and watch it, saying that it is good to watch. If you deny that, then our conversation is going to have to go to another level. If you have Fr Andrew’s ear, I recommend you warn him that continuing denial is going to lead to disaster and the very opposite of Orthodox unity, which can only exist in a context of Orthodox truth committed to rejecting even the inadvertent promotion of evil.

rusmeister · Sep 22, 2021

truefiction1 said:
There won't be reconciliation, unfortunately.

We can hope and try.

ArmyMatt · Sep 22, 2021

rusmeister said:
That’s why I never said anything about what you did. You explained yourself to me, and so while it was unpleasant, I was able to get over it. You were ordered, had no choice, the order was lawful, it’s over.

At the time, though... that’s a key phrase, whatever happened afterward. At the time, Steve’s podcast was up - and still is - Episode 38: Good and Evil in Game of Thrones - Pop Culture Coffee Hour | Ancient Faith Ministries

They can say they were not promoting inappropriate content, but if they were to tell me about an X-rated Art house film, and that we ought to see it, then yes, they would be and are promoting inappropriate content, however unintentionally. A complex and fascinating story with plenty of inappropriate contentographic content. I don’t see how you could claim that promoting GOT is not promoting inappropriate content. Fr Andrew wasn’t directly doing promotion of it, Steve was, and they (including Bobby Maddox) didn’t want to look into it and see that what I said was true and that they ought to have pulled it. AND Fr Andrew blocked me on his page (which is still active). That is how I got ignored. Their actions matter to me far more than their words. What they say is meaningless, since the podcast is still up. True, they themselves don’t describe any inappropriate contentography in detail, but they are telling Orthodox people to go out and watch it, saying that it is good to watch. If you deny that, then our conversation is going to have to go to another level. If you have Fr Andrew’s ear, I recommend you warn him that continuing denial is going to lead to disaster and the very opposite of Orthodox unity, which can only exist in a context of Orthodox truth committed to rejecting even the inadvertent promotion of evil.

that was the issue. your only solution for them was to take down the podcast. despite the fact that before the conversation with Fr Andrew, he stated that he and Steve clarified what they meant on the podcast. so there is a broader context to what they said than a podcast from 4 years ago.

Dorothea · Sep 22, 2021

prodromos said:
My mother is now suffering terribly from adverse reactions to the vaccine. This is after her miraculous recovery from severe brain injury almost a year ago. She can now barely walk and is in a lot of pain. Her doctor is clueless and is not able to help her, the same doctor who recommended she get vaccinated. My mum has gone from glorifying God, to wishing she were dead.
My son-in-law is now managing a heart condition that he never had until he got vaccinated.

so sorry, John. Heartbreaking. Prayers for your mother and son-in-law. If you listen to the expert panel, one of the things they point out is the benefits of the vaccine don’t outweigh the serious risks. The vaccines should be pulled, imo.

Dorothea · Sep 22, 2021

rusmeister said:
Unfortunately, that site appears to be blocked within Russia, whatever other hosts may do.

The site I gave is where most good independent journalists and people discussing COVID issues and other stuff such as government surveillance and other topics like that go to because they aren’t permitted on YouTube to discuss such things - censorship.

All4Christ · Sep 22, 2021

Dorothea said:
so sorry, John. Heartbreaking. Prayers for your mother and son-in-law. If you listen to the expert panel, one of the things they point out is the benefits of the vaccine don’t outweigh the serious risks. The vaccines should be pulled, imo.

I am so sorry as well that this happened. They will be in my prayers.

Suggesting that vaccines should be pulled though is completely ignoring the many people who have been saved from serious illness.

For example - after the vaccine, my grandma’s nursing home residents, including the dementia unit, have all recovered from any COVID after the vaccine and did not suffer serious illness. Compared to the previous time when one COVID case was introduced, they only have had two residents who got it, despite non-vaccinated team members working there before realizing that they had COVID. The last outbreak went through about 80% of the nursing home, with about 25% of infected residents dying. My grandma had a big scare with her COVID diagnosis. Note that while there is some natural immunity after COVID, elderly do not have the immunity as long, and it is well past that time.

The vaccine has helped them so much, despite the risks. Everything has risks. It’s a matter of the benefit / risk ratio. (There are many other expert panels that say the opposite of the panel you referenced). It is important to be understanding of both sides, and recognize that there are valid concerns on both sides.

All4Christ · Sep 22, 2021

prodromos said:
My mother is now suffering terribly from adverse reactions to the vaccine. This is after her miraculous recovery from severe brain injury almost a year ago. She can now barely walk and is in a lot of pain. Her doctor is clueless and is not able to help her, the same doctor who recommended she get vaccinated. My mum has gone from glorifying God, to wishing she were dead.
My son-in-law is now managing a heart condition that he never had until he got vaccinated.

Prayers for them both!

Dorothea · Sep 22, 2021

I forgot that Ryan has his own website. Rus and others that couldn't get it to come up, try this:

FDA Panel Rejects Boosters After Experts Expose Injection Dangers & COVID Jabs' Immunological Attack

Again, starts about 30 mins into his video.

Dorothea · Sep 22, 2021

All4Christ said:
I am so sorry as well that this happened. They will be in my prayers.

Suggesting that vaccines should be pulled though is completely ignoring the many people who have been saved from serious illness.

For example - after the vaccine, my grandma’s nursing home residents, including the dementia unit, have all recovered from any COVID after the vaccine and did not suffer serious illness. Compared to the previous time when one COVID case was introduced, they only have had two residents who got it, despite non-vaccinated team members working there before realizing that they had COVID. The last outbreak went through about 80% of the nursing home, with about 25% of infected residents dying. My grandma had a big scare with her COVID diagnosis. Note that while there is some natural immunity after COVID, elderly do not have the immunity as long, and it is well past that time.

The vaccine has helped them so much, despite the risks. Everything has risks. It’s a matter of the benefit / risk ratio. (There are many other expert panels that say the opposite of the panel you referenced). It is important to be understanding of both sides, and recognize that there are valid concerns on both sides.

The panel of experts voted 16 to 2 to stop the booster shots, and the four I listened to are saying the vaccine benefits don't outweigh the risks. One even saying more trials and testing evidence needs to be shown because those skeptical about the efficacy and safety of the vaccine have more data on their side than the agencies and pharma companies promoting them.

As far as the elderly and nursing home issues, yes, that's a real problem, and they are very vulnerable. Vulnerable to all kinds of illnesses - pneumonia, flu, covid, etc. In fact, many elderly die from pneumonia each year, more than the others. My dad had pneumonia before he had two strokes while still in the hospital. The antibiotics weren't working, and the second massive stroke took him.

rusmeister · Sep 22, 2021

ArmyMatt said:
that was the issue. your only solution for them was to take down the podcast. despite the fact that before the conversation with Fr Andrew, he stated that he and Steve clarified what they meant on the podcast. so there is a broader context to what they said than a podcast from 4 years ago.

It's almost like you're speaking Chinese, Fr Matt.
On the program in question, Steve was praising the series. He wasn't speaking the truth about the moral effect of watching inappropriate contentographic scenes made for titillating audiences. He was saying the series was great and ought to be enjoyed, and Christian themes "sought out" in it. Why in the heck should we care about whatever nuances they meant? Yes, all normal Orthodox Christians should agree that it is not OK to indulge ourselves in stuff like that. Not OK. This is exactly what puts me on the side of all the people mad at AFR, this justification of what is just plain wrong. It's wrong. They need to pull it, apologize, and get that content for Orthodox Christians needs a clear line beyond which we do not go. You're saying, as far as I can tell, that they don't need to do that in this case, that "they meant something good, so there was nothing ultimately wrong with the original podcast in question". And that is by no means the only complaint people have. Others have still more serious ones. I am kind of in the middle, trying to restrain the angrier voices and urge Christian charity, and I don't think or feel that responses other than, "Yeah, that's wrong" are helpful to reconciliation, because they ignore the essential complaint about what content, and what speakers are promoted, and whether they represent the Church of the fathers, or the world, trying consciously to subvert it, or in some cases, unconsciously going too far in embracing the world and inadvertently subverting what we ought to be bringing people.

ArmyMatt · Sep 22, 2021

rusmeister said:
It's almost like you're speaking Chinese, Fr Matt.
On the program in question, Steve was praising the series. He wasn't speaking the truth about the moral effect of watching inappropriate contentographic scenes made for titillating audiences. He was saying the series was great and ought to be enjoyed, and Christian themes "sought out" in it. Why in the heck should we care about whatever nuances they meant? Yes, all normal Orthodox Christians should agree that it is not OK to indulge ourselves in stuff like that. Not OK. This is exactly what puts me on the side of all the people mad at AFR, this justification of what is just plain wrong. It's wrong. They need to pull it, apologize, and get that content for Orthodox Christians needs a clear line beyond which we do not go. You're saying, as far as I can tell, that they don't need to do that in this case, that "they meant something good, so there was nothing ultimately wrong with the original podcast in question". And that is by no means the only complaint people have. Others have still more serious ones. I am kind of in the middle, trying to restrain the angrier voices and urge Christian charity, and I don't think or feel that responses other than, "Yeah, that's wrong" are helpful to reconciliation, because they ignore the essential complaint about what content, and what speakers are promoted, and whether they represent the Church of the fathers, or the world, trying consciously to subvert it, or in some cases, unconsciously going too far in embracing the world and inadvertently subverting what we ought to be bringing people.

I am not speaking Chinese, nor am I defending AFR in the case of the Game of Thrones podcast. all I did was chime in because you said you were ignored. you weren't. Fr Andrew simply disagreed with you in terms of the content of that episode. and I pointed out that the episode was addressed by Fr Andrew and Steve even before we had our conversation.

that isn't me defending AFR or its content.

Refusing to be vaccinated against Covid-19 is a ’sin’ & anti-vaxxers must spend their life repenting

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