Vatican to require European Green Pass (proof of vaccination) for entry beg. Oct 1

Gnarwhal · Sep 20, 2021

This is not okay whatsoever.

From 1 October, entry into Vatican City State will only be permitted to persons who are in possession of a Vatican "Green Pass", a "European Green Pass," or a foreign Covid-19 green pass attesting to vaccination or recovery from SARS-COV-2. Entry will also be granted to those who have a negative molecular or antigenic test for the SARS-COV-2 virus.

The new measures come in the form of a decree from the office of the President of the Pontifical Commission of Vatican City State on the subject of Public Health emergencies, issued in response to a request made by Pope Francis during an audience on 7 September.

Green Pass required for access into Vatican from 1 October - Vatican News

Gnarwhal · Sep 20, 2021

I'm inclined to agree with this Twitter user. I don't know her, but I think she's on to something here:

The vaccine passport is the precursor to the Mark of the beast. And the Vatican now requires it. Think about that.

https://twitter.com/Goalisheaven1/status/1440107553828982787?s=20

Abaxvahl · Sep 20, 2021

Fenwick said:
This is not okay whatsoever.

From 1 October, entry into Vatican City State will only be permitted to persons who are in possession of a Vatican "Green Pass", a "European Green Pass," or a foreign Covid-19 green pass attesting to vaccination or recovery from SARS-COV-2. Entry will also be granted to those who have a negative molecular or antigenic test for the SARS-COV-2 virus.

The new measures come in the form of a decree from the office of the President of the Pontifical Commission of Vatican City State on the subject of Public Health emergencies, issued in response to a request made by Pope Francis during an audience on 7 September.

Green Pass required for access into Vatican from 1 October - Vatican News

Well that's just annoying, more than annoying, but I'll trust the Pope's judgment here. In general I think by this point that the response to COVID is disproportionate to what is happening, even before this point.

Taodeching · Sep 20, 2021

Fenwick said:
From 1 October, entry into Vatican City State will only be permitted to persons who are in possession of a Vatican "Green Pass", a "European Green Pass," or a foreign Covid-19 green pass attesting to vaccination or recovery from SARS-COV-2. Entry will also be granted to those who have a negative molecular or antigenic test for the SARS-COV-2 virus.

The new measures come in the form of a decree from the office of the President of the Pontifical Commission of Vatican City State on the subject of Public Health emergencies, issued in response to a request made by Pope Francis during an audience on 7 September.
Green Pass required for access into Vatican from 1 October - Vatican News

A good thing

narnia59 · Sep 21, 2021

Fenwick said:
I'm inclined to agree with this Twitter user. I don't know her, but I think she's on to something here:

The vaccine passport is the precursor to the Mark of the beast. And the Vatican now requires it. Think about that.

https://twitter.com/Goalisheaven1/status/1440107553828982787?s=20

If the vaccine were being required I would be more inclined to consider this.

But it's not. The European Green Pass allows for someone who's recovered from COVID to not be vaccinated and it also allows for a negative COVID test.

And I don't think it's unreasonable to require a negative COVID test before going into a place where there are tons of crowds indoors. We do have some moral obligation to not be spreaders of this disease. While the Vatican has clearly stated the vaccine should not be mandated, they've also said we have responsibility to take other measures to not be spreaders. I think this policy is consistent with that.

And why wouldn't we want to be sure that we're not carrying COVID around before going into a place like that?

Wolseley · Sep 21, 2021

All I can say is I guess it's a good thing that I'm a cantankerous, paranoid old veteran with PTSD and anti-social tendencies who camps out in my house here in the middle of the National Forest and only goes anywhere if I absolutely have to. I have no desire to travel outside the fast-fading United States, or even out of a three to four-county area of where I'm living. If I could get people to bring me food, I'd probably never leave my house.

But my point is, they certainly don't have to worry about being infected with anything from me. If they're all so terrified of this Wuhan flu, then fine, I'll stay away. No prob, Bob.

pdudgeon · Sep 22, 2021

agreed.
If someone is so afraid of catching it, then they should self quarantine as much as possible, and depend upon their own protective measures.
What they should NOT do is to try and micro manage everyone else's lives for them.
That's going way too far IMHO.
(Come to think of it, there's a whole book in the OT about just such a man.....)

narnia59 · Sep 22, 2021

pdudgeon said:
agreed.
If someone is so afraid of catching it, then they should self quarantine as much as possible, and depend upon their own protective measures.
What they should NOT do is to try and micro manage everyone else's lives for them.
That's going way too far IMHO.
(Come to think of it, there's a whole book in the OT about just such a man.....)

I would agree with this wholeheartedly if our decisions impacted only us.

If someone shows up at the Vatican with large groups of tourists, I can agree they are making a decision to take their own risk. Fair enough. And someone else may opt to stay at home as much as possible. But they may need to get out for certain necessities -- the pharmacy, a doctor's appointment etc. Or to come to Mass. And the first person who takes no precautions is there as well, and their choice to take no precautions impacts the person who is trying their best to avoid risk as much as possible.

And what about the workers at the Vatican who have to be there because it's their livelihood? What about the priest who is there to celebrate Mass? All are impacted by the first person's choices.

Not to mention we have health care workers who are exhausted beyond measure at this point because there are more people who are sick than we have qualified people to care for them. They and their families have paid a heavy price due to the choices of other people who don't want to be burdened by any requirements to help contain the spread of the disease at all, and have the view that my choice only affects me. That simply isn't true.

pdudgeon · Sep 23, 2021

narnia59 said:
I would agree with this wholeheartedly if our decisions impacted only us.

If someone shows up at the Vatican with large groups of tourists, I can agree they are making a decision to take their own risk. Fair enough. And someone else may opt to stay at home as much as possible. But they may need to get out for certain necessities -- the pharmacy, a doctor's appointment etc. Or to come to Mass. And the first person who takes no precautions is there as well, and their choice to take no precautions impacts the person who is trying their best to avoid risk as much as possible.

And what about the workers at the Vatican who have to be there because it's their livelihood? What about the priest who is there to celebrate Mass? All are impacted by the first person's choices.

Not to mention we have health care workers who are exhausted beyond measure at this point because there are more people who are sick than we have qualified people to care for them. They and their families have paid a heavy price due to the choices of other people who don't want to be burdened by any requirements to help contain the spread of the disease at all, and have the view that my choice only affects me. That simply isn't true.

Pharmacies deliver. They also have drive thru windows to pick up prescriptions.
Doctor's appointments can be done online now.
And mass is also online or on tv, with a virtual eucharist, which celebration (Eucharist) has been available virtually for many years.
Groceries can be ordered online and delivered to your car in the parking lot.
The priest who says mass is protected by God, and always has been. Now with Covid, additional protections have been added for their safety, including stepped up personal safety, and locked doors, once mass has begun.

pdudgeon · Sep 23, 2021

pdudgeon said:
Pharmacies deliver. They also have drive thru windows to pick up prescriptions.
Doctor's appointments can be done online now.
And mass is also online or on tv, with a virtual eucharist, which celebration (Eucharist) has been available virtually for many years.
Groceries can be ordered online and delivered to your car in the parking lot.
The priest who says mass is protected by God, and always has been. Now with Covid, additional protections have been added for their safety, including stepped up personal safety, and locked doors, once mass has begun.

Also to add that the elderly or those who are sick have ALWAYS been excused from coming to mass for their own safety.
The one thing that is different now is that the healthy membership of a parish are made to take precautions heretofore not required of them, as though they were the ones who are sick.
Now apparently it is a crime to be healthy, or to trust in the healing power of God.
Instead, we are told that because we are healthy, we need to have medicine injected into our healthy bodies, and we are publicly shunned, avoided, and labeled for believing that God can protect us from that which satan uses to scare and kill people.
Make no mistake here:
God did not send this virus.
This is satan's work, but he will not have the last say in the matter.

Satan was defeated at the cross, but he keeps on trying to win a victory over Our Lord, Jesus.

In the end, he will fail, and he will be locked up in hell forever.
I believe in Jesus Christ.
I believe in His saving power,
And I believe that even though my body will die some day, that my soul will live on for eternity.

Sword of the Lord · Sep 23, 2021

pdudgeon said:
Pharmacies deliver. They also have drive thru windows to pick up prescriptions.
Doctor's appointments can be done online now.
And mass is also online or on tv, with a virtual eucharist, which celebration (Eucharist) has been available virtually for many years.
Groceries can be ordered online and delivered to your car in the parking lot.
The priest who says mass is protected by God, and always has been. Now with Covid, additional protections have been added for their safety, including stepped up personal safety, and locked doors, once mass has begun.

I'm against the Covid vaccine, but priests are as likely as anyone else to get Covid. Many have, and some have died.

narnia59 · Sep 24, 2021

pdudgeon said:
Pharmacies deliver. They also have drive thru windows to pick up prescriptions.
Doctor's appointments can be done online now.
And mass is also online or on tv, with a virtual eucharist, which celebration (Eucharist) has been available virtually for many years.
Groceries can be ordered online and delivered to your car in the parking lot.
The priest who says mass is protected by God, and always has been. Now with Covid, additional protections have been added for their safety, including stepped up personal safety, and locked doors, once mass has begun.

My sister was watching TV early in COVID when there were shutdowns, and a when asked about defying them a man replied that if people don't want to get sick, they should "stay the hell home." Your post reminds me somewhat of that.

But people can't stay home all the time. I had to have dental work done twice early on in the pandemic in order to avoid serious health issues and pain. You can't really do that "online."

The ability to order groceries online does not protect grocery workers who have to be in the stores working.

Priests can and have died from COVID. They are not immune to a fallen world. One elderly priest in our diocese caught COVID and the only time he had left his home was to celebrate Mass, and had not made himself available to visit with the congregation before or after.

And we still have health care workers who along with their families are paying a high price for what others consider to be their freedom of choice.

I am not on board with mandated vaccines. But I am on board with the Vatican document that says whether or not we choose to be vaccinated we still have an obligation to try to not spread this disease. Requiring proof of a negative COVID test prior to entering sompelace that has a high risk of spread (indoors, large crowds) helps with that and I fail to understand why anyone would object to that. Do we not still have a responsibility to be our "brother's keeper?"

narnia59 · Sep 24, 2021

pdudgeon said:
Also to add that the elderly or those who are sick have ALWAYS been excused from coming to mass for their own safety.
The one thing that is different now is that the healthy membership of a parish are made to take precautions heretofore not required of them, as though they were the ones who are sick.
Now apparently it is a crime to be healthy, or to trust in the healing power of God.
Instead, we are told that because we are healthy, we need to have medicine injected into our healthy bodies, and we are publicly shunned, avoided, and labeled for believing that God can protect us from that which satan uses to scare and kill people.
Make no mistake here:
God did not send this virus.
This is satan's work, but he will not have the last say in the matter.

Satan was defeated at the cross, but he keeps on trying to win a victory over Our Lord, Jesus.

In the end, he will fail, and he will be locked up in hell forever.
I believe in Jesus Christ.
I believe in His saving power,
And I believe that even though my body will die some day, that my soul will live on for eternity.

With this disease you have no way to know if you are a "healthy" person unless you've been tested. You may be asymptomatic and responsible for spreading the disease to multiple people.

God did not send this virus but He has allowed it; it is an aspect of His permitted will. It's an opportunity for all of us to grow in holiness, as all trials are.

anna ~ grace · Sep 24, 2021

I think this should really be optional.

Rome Theologian Discusses the Vaccine Mandate, ‘Green Pass’ and Conscience Exemptions

pdudgeon · Sep 24, 2021

narnia59 said:
My sister was watching TV early in COVID when there were shutdowns, and a when asked about defying them a man replied that if people don't want to get sick, they should "stay the hell home." Your post reminds me somewhat of that.

But people can't stay home all the time. I had to have dental work done twice early on in the pandemic in order to avoid serious health issues and pain. You can't really do that "online."

The ability to order groceries online does not protect grocery workers who have to be in the stores working.

Priests can and have died from COVID. They are not immune to a fallen world. One elderly priest in our diocese caught COVID and the only time he had left his home was to celebrate Mass, and had not made himself available to visit with the congregation before or after.

And we still have health care workers who along with their families are paying a high price for what others consider to be their freedom of choice.

I am not on board with mandated vaccines. But I am on board with the Vatican document that says whether or not we choose to be vaccinated we still have an obligation to try to not spread this disease. Requiring proof of a negative COVID test prior to entering sompelace that has a high risk of spread (indoors, large crowds) helps with that and I fail to understand why anyone would object to that. Do we not still have a responsibility to be our "brother's keeper?"

I would like to address the last sentence in your post above:
"Do we not still have a responsibility to be our "brother's keeper?"
In the way of being a "Good Samaritan", and so long as it is within the scope of our personal ability to do so, that answer would be "yes".
But you will notice that activity has it's limits:
1. It is a single, specific, and limited act.
2. It coincides with our normal activities.
3. It is in addition to our everyday life.
4. It in no way hampers or takes the place of our other duties.
5. And the last but most important part: we pay the entire cost, and we are not reimbursed for doing so.

So this is not stepping in for Christ, or taking His place. This is an opportunity ( and a very small one at that) to suffer like Christ did for us.
It's not an opportunity to tell someone else what they should have done, or lay guilt upon them for their choices.

anna ~ grace · Sep 24, 2021

anna ~ grace · Sep 25, 2021

Wolseley · Sep 25, 2021

pdudgeon said:
I would like to address the last sentence in your post above:
"Do we not still have a responsibility to be our "brother's keeper?"
In the way of being a "Good Samaritan", and so long as it is within the scope of our personal ability to do so, that answer would be "yes".
But you will notice that activity has it's limits:
1. It is a single, specific, and limited act.
2. It coincides with our normal activities.
3. It is in addition to our everyday life.
4. It in no way hampers or takes the place of our other duties.
5. And the last but most important part: we pay the entire cost, and we are not reimbursed for doing so.

So this is not stepping in for Christ, or taking His place. This is an opportunity ( and a very small one at that) to suffer like Christ did for us.
It's not an opportunity to tell someone else what they should have done, or lay guilt upon them for their choices.

But....but....you mean that Calvin was wrong, and that being a good Christian is not about having complete, total control over every last aspect of every believer's life?!?!?

I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

Vatican to require European Green Pass (proof of vaccination) for entry beg. Oct 1

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