All things are permissible for me....

Ligurian said:

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive in the womb, and shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Emmanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, before he knows either to prefer evil or choose the good. 16 For before the child shall know good or evil, he refuses evil, to choose the good; and the land shall be forsaken which thou art afraid of because of the two kings.LXX

Click to expand...

tdidymas said:

It doesn't say what you claimed. This is a prophecy about Christ, who is the only one besides Adam who was born without a sinful nature.

We know that everyone is born with a sinful nature by these two facts:
1. Everyone sins. If anyone was born righteous (other than Christ Himself), then there would be some percentage of people who would live righteously. But Rom. 3:10-18 says otherwise. "All are under sin."
2. Children start sinning by nature on their own. But they must be taught righteous behavior, because it's not in their nature.

Rom. 11:32 "For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."
Notice: "everyone" = no one is excluded (save Christ alone),
"disobedience" = sin. The fact that no one initially believes in Christ the way He commands proves that all are sinners.

Click to expand...

So then you're saying Jesus didn't have the same flesh as man?

Jeshu said:

Yes indeed we died to the dark forces in which we had our old life, and came to New Life in the Spirit of Christ through the truths of Scripture.

Click to expand...

Ligurian said:

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

Click to expand...

Jeshu said:

Huh?

Colossians 1:22
"But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— "

Click to expand...

Sure seems like Paul was doing a lot of accusation... given his new and improved thou shalt not lists. Which begs the question: Is it only God who lost the right to condemn in Paul's system... but Paul is still able to get in their collective face?
So... what about that new life thing? Wouldn't that keep a man from sleeping with his step-mother... seems like even the ordinary everyday gentiles didn't do that.

Ligurian said:

So then you're saying Jesus didn't have the same flesh as man?

Click to expand...

No, I didn't say that. The sin nature is in the soul, due to the fact that man is born disconnected from the Spirit of God. Eph. 2:12 - without God in the world.

Ligurian said:

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive in the womb, and shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Emmanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, before he knows either to prefer evil or choose the good. 16 For before the child shall know good or evil, he refuses evil, to choose the good; and the land shall be forsaken which thou art afraid of because of the two kings.LXX

Click to expand...

tdidymas said:

It doesn't say what you claimed. This is a prophecy about Christ, who is the only one besides Adam who was born without a sinful nature.

We know that everyone is born with a sinful nature by these two facts:
1. Everyone sins. If anyone was born righteous (other than Christ Himself), then there would be some percentage of people who would live righteously. But Rom. 3:10-18 says otherwise. "All are under sin."
2. Children start sinning by nature on their own. But they must be taught righteous behavior, because it's not in their nature.

Rom. 11:32 "For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."
Notice: "everyone" = no one is excluded (save Christ alone),
"disobedience" = sin. The fact that no one initially believes in Christ the way He commands proves that all are sinners.

Click to expand...

Ligurian said:

So then you're saying Jesus didn't have the same flesh as man?

Click to expand...

tdidymas said:

No, I didn't say that. The sin nature is in the soul, due to the fact that man is born disconnected from the Spirit of God. Eph. 2:12 - without God in the world.

Click to expand...

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

That verse is written about the gentiles... not the circumcision.

Ligurian said:

Sure seems like Paul was doing a lot of accusation... given his new and improved thou shalt not lists. Which begs the question: Is it only God who lost the right to condemn in Paul's system... but Paul is still able to get in their collective face?
So... what about that new life thing? Wouldn't that keep a man from sleeping with his step-mother... seems like even the ordinary everyday gentiles didn't do that.

Click to expand...

What you don't seem to realise, but Paul knew for sure, is that people who are reborn can go back to their old lives. As a matter of fact a godly person can still do ungodly things by acting out of their old nature and not their new.

When we think about this dualism then we can easily see how that is. For one moment we are drawn by God's Spirit to worship and praise God, while a few minutes later satan gets us to judge our fallen neighbour. This is how easily we can have life in God's Spirit one moment and let satan undo all that the next.

So Paul says there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ, those who walk according to their New nature in Him, and die their old nature, every day a bit more, but our walk in sin will not yield us our salvation but only condemnation.

So we believers have an obligation, and that is to leave our old life, every day again, and grow in our new life. For only in our new life are we eternal.

So Paul's warnings are spot on. For in those days, as there are many now, there where people who said, we are saved and can now do what we like, some went even so far as having sex with their dad's wife, Paul put a stop to that. Good on him!

So when Paul says that we are free in Christ, then we are really free, free not to do sin, even though we have the chance to do sin, such is the true freedom Paul was talking about. Those who walk in Christ's freedom do not sin, no matter how much their old life pursues them, but let themselves be renewed day by day into the likeness of The Son, loving God and neighbour true.

So Paul is best understood as the disciple who tells us to die to our old nature, every day a bit more, and to come to life in the new nature, every day a bit more, until Christ is revealed in us. We know when that happens the book of Revelation will come into effect, and sin living in us will be utterly destroyed and we will end up ruling beside Christ over our inner world of being in our new life.
2 Corinthians 4:10-11
We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body.

Like i said before Paul was the author who explained to me to set the cowering prisoners in my heart free, for the hostility between saved and unsaved has been done away with by God and in my sinful self i can come before Christ and let Him wash me and set me free in His Kingdom instead.
Ephesians 2:13-18
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

It was Paul who drove me on, whipping me into line at times, until in all my sinful self i had Christ blood transform me into newness of life. i will always be grateful to Paul for making clear to me how to do that.

2 Corinthians 10:2
I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world.

Galatians 3:26-29
So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So i know that Paul speaks the truth of the Gospel perfectly true, for it were mainly His words that The Holy Spirit used to break me free from the hold my flesh had on me and grow me New Life in Jesus.

So i love how Paul isolates the sinful nature in us, and at the same time promotes our New nature, and shows us fellow believers how to die to our old life and find Christ resurrect us in our new life.

i will always love Jesus for giving us Paul. No apostle understood The word better than Paul.

Peace.

Ligurian said:

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

That verse is written about the gentiles... not the circumcision.

Click to expand...

Rom. ch. 2 and 3: all are under sin, and there is no difference.

Michie said:

You can read commentary on the whole chapter here: 1 Corinthians, CHAPTER 6 | USCCB


* [6:12–20] Paul now turns to the opinion of some Corinthians that sexuality is a morally indifferent area (1 Cor 6:12–13). This leads him to explain the mutual relation between the Lord Jesus and our bodies (1 Cor 6:13b) in a densely packed paragraph that contains elements of a profound theology of sexuality (1 Cor 6:15–20).

* [6:12–13] Everything is lawful for me: the Corinthians may have derived this slogan from Paul’s preaching about Christian freedom, but they mean something different by it: they consider sexual satisfaction a matter as indifferent as food, and they attribute no lasting significance to bodily functions (1 Cor 6:13a). Paul begins to deal with the slogan by two qualifications, which suggest principles for judging sexual activity. Not everything is beneficial: cf. 1 Cor 10:23, and the whole argument of 1 Cor 8–10 on the finality of freedom and moral activity. Not let myself be dominated: certain apparently free actions may involve in fact a secret servitude in conflict with the lordship of Jesus.

Click to expand...

Maria Billingsley said:

Most commentaries agree Paul was being flippant. After all, he was speaking to Corinthians who were the worst of congregations. They took liberty, almost Gnostic in their thinking. Pushing the envelope, as we say, when dealing with sin. Be blessed.

Click to expand...

"
In ancient Greece, sacred prostitution was known in the city of Corinth where the Temple of Aphrodite employed a significant number of female servants, hetairai, during classical antiquity.[53]

The Greek term hierodoulos or hierodule has sometimes been taken to mean sacred holy woman, but it is more likely to refer to a former slave freed from slavery in order to be dedicated to a god.[15]

In the temple of Apollo at Bulla Regia, a woman was found buried with an inscription reading: "Adulteress. Prostitute. Seize (me), because I fled from Bulla Regia." It has been speculated she might be a woman forced into sacred prostitution as a punishment for adultery" Sacred prostitution - Wikipedia

It is possible that some of the believers in Jesus came out of that background and have not matured enough to hate this sin. I do agree with what you wrote.

Ligurian said:

Isaiah says people aren't born with a sin nature... they have the ability to choose the good. Mankind has free will, and each lives or dies by his own choice.

So, Jesus says the prince of this world is judged, because it's the devil who brought sin and death to the world... and Jesus' death meant Resurrection, which is the defeat of Death and the fulfillment of Genesis 3:15.

Click to expand...

Is that Isaiah 7?

Ligurian said:

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive in the womb, and shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Emmanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, before he knows either to prefer evil or choose the good. 16 For before the child shall know good or evil, he refuses evil, to choose the good; and the land shall be forsaken which thou art afraid of because of the two kings.LXX

Click to expand...

Jeshu said:

Huh?

Colossians 1:22
"But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— "

Click to expand...

A Guy was sleeping his his Dads' wife or something like that ---

Ligurian said:

Sure seems like Paul was doing a lot of accusation... given his new and improved thou shalt not lists. Which begs the question: Is it only God who lost the right to condemn in Paul's system... but Paul is still able to get in their collective face?
So... what about that new life thing? Wouldn't that keep a man from sleeping with his step-mother... seems like even the ordinary everyday gentiles didn't do that.

Click to expand...

1 Corinthians 5
Easy-to-Read Version

Don’t Let Your People Live in Sin
5 I don’t want to believe what I am hearing—that there is sexual sin among you. And it is such a bad kind of sexual sin that even those who have never known God don’t allow it. People say that a man there has his father’s wife. 2 And still you are proud of yourselves! You should have been filled with sadness. And the man who committed that sin should be put out of your group.

Someone sent paul a letter about the problems in that church. Most likely.

read to here

Jeshu said:

i will always love Jesus for giving us Paul. No apostle understood The word better than Paul.

Click to expand...

None of that stuff is in the Old Testament.
Your sin nature is probably why you're drawn to Paul.


I'm drawn by the Law and Order of the Creation to the Father.
And drawn by the Law of the Father to Jesus.
And drawn by the witness of Jesus to believe on the Father.
This is the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Ligurian said:

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

That verse is written about the gentiles... not the circumcision.

Click to expand...

tdidymas said:

Rom. ch. 2 and 3: all are under sin, and there is no difference.

Click to expand...

Where's that "all under sin" thing in the Old Testament?

Psalms 136:1-26 Give thanks to the Lord: for He is good: for His mercy endures for ever.LXX

It's not in the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Matthew 5:7 Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Matthew 18:33-35 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall My Heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Daniel Marsh said:

A Guy was sleeping his his Dads' wife or something like that --- View attachment 306060

Click to expand...

Daniel Marsh said:

1 Corinthians 5
Easy-to-Read Version

Don’t Let Your People Live in Sin
5 I don’t want to believe what I am hearing—that there is sexual sin among you. And it is such a bad kind of sexual sin that even those who have never known God don’t allow it. People say that a man there has his father’s wife. 2 And still you are proud of yourselves! You should have been filled with sadness. And the man who committed that sin should be put out of your group.

Someone sent paul a letter about the problems in that church. Most likely.

Click to expand...

Matthew 5:27 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
--Gospel of the Kingdom

Think different.

Ligurian said:

Your sin nature is probably why you're drawn to Paul.

Click to expand...

My dear fellow, Paul helped me get rid of my sin nature, you have it all wrong.

Rather when i was still a fallen sinner then i had problems with Paul. Then i resented him very much like you do now. Wanting to have an excuse to stay in my sin and be forgiven any way. A lot of Christians just want to be forgiven but stay in their sins, Paul wisely makes sure that The salvation of God is properly understood and denies indwelling sin the kingdom.


Yet like i told you the Gospel as written by Paul exposes the evil nature dwelling in me and brought me the opportunity to go to Jesus with it and be freed from it.

Now as someone who used to be stuck with much sin in self, i say thanks be to God for Jesus Christ who set me free from my sins using in particular the Gospel as written by Paul.

So i'm one witness witnessing to you that you have it very wrong and i will give you the next one who witnesses about Paul. (Or is he speaking out of his sinful nature as well?)

2 Peter 3:15-16
"Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

So please brother understand that your dislike for Paul is sin speaking in your heart, and that doing that you distort the truth of Scripture and run a real risk of destruction believing as you do.

Galatians 1:6-9
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

i testify that heeding Paul's Gospel taught me to leave sin behind, die to being like that time and again, and find new life in Christ. Paul's words showed me my inner divisions and helped Christ reunite my heart in His loving truth and set me free from the bondage of sin.
Colossians 2:20-23
Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

i also testify that we have to die to our old nature, just like Jesus, Peter, John and Paul speak of, and come to life in the new nature. i know that this is an ongoing process, where Jesus Himself, through The Word's of the bible, transforms us from loving untrue to loving true people.

Now i know that it was Paul's words which arrested me in my sinful selves and directed me to Christ, so i could learn to hate my sin and find new life in Christ, especially the words of Paul put me to death in my sin and helped me find new life in Jesus instead.
Colossians 3
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

So yes clearly Paul is completely true when he speaks, for his words carry the same power same as all of Scripture has. So glad Paul teaches rightly and wont let sin living inside of believers hearts get away with it.

Galatians 1:11-12
"I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Jeshu said:

My dear fellow, Paul helped me get rid of my sin nature, you have it all wrong.

Galatians 1:11-12
"I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Click to expand...

Galatians 2:7-9 the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me

Galatians 1:6, Galatians 3:5

John 14:15-17, Matthew 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Ligurian said:

Galatians 2:7-9 the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me

Galatians 1:6, Galatians 3:5

John 14:15-17, Matthew 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Click to expand...

When Jesus commanded His Disciples to preach the Kingdom of God it was only for the Jews, for Jesus knew He had to fulfil The word as the Jewish Messiah.

However after He suffered, died and rose again then the revelation that the Gospel was for everyone came about.

For Jesus commanded...

Mark 16:15
"He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."

And so Paul, after Christ called him, became a preacher to the uncircumcised. So glad he did.

Ligurian said:

Where's that "all under sin" thing in the Old Testament?

Psalms 136:1-26 Give thanks to the Lord: for He is good: for His mercy endures for ever.LXX

It's not in the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Matthew 5:7 Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Matthew 18:33-35 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall My Heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Click to expand...

1 Kings 8:46 "When they sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin..."
Here King Solomon acknowledges that everyone sins. 100%. This is proof that every person has a sinful nature, Israelites and Jews included.
Rom. 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come."
Since the wages of sin is death, and 100% die, then 100% is under sin (Christ excluded). Notice he says "from Adam to Moses," meaning all mankind prior to the law given on tablets of stone.

All the scriptures you quoted encourage regenerate people, not unregenerate. When Jesus said "you must be born again," He was referring to every single person, since no one is born connected to God. For anyone to be saved, they must be born of God by the Holy Spirit through hearing the gospel preached. If they are not born again, they are not believers, and "the wrath of God abideth on them." (Jn. 3:36)

For those who are born again, "we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works which He ordained we should walk in them." (Eph. 2:10)