Concerned about the political situation in USA.

Sketcher said:

The unpopular measures passed in 2009 and 2010 were passed mostly along party lines, which was made possible by the blue wave in 2008. The Democrat representatives and senators did not listen to the opposition from the conservatives in their districts, and the Republicans who were still in DC didn't get their seat at the table. Most of the compromises in Obamacare for instance, were between different groups of Democrats.


The Democrats and their mainstream media allies lied by commission or by omission all the time. I'm not going to say that Republican politicians don't, but they don't have as many allies in the mainstream media who will cover for them. Either way, when you don't trust the official narrative because of perceived bias or lying, you're going to do your own research and find "alternative facts." This is not solely a right-wing phenomenon - the 9/11 "truthers" did it too.


There were probably some that resented a black president because he was black, but there was a lot more resentment over the gushing support of him because he was black. Skin color shouldn't be a factor in support or opposition.

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Republicans have proved to us they do not want reelection to govern. They simply enjoy the lobby money, and work complicity to enable themselves and cronies. I WISH I had some respectable republican choices for which to vote. Any respectable republican today who dares acknowledge reality is vilified and canceled by the "party". It's quite a shame. They will realize their mistake soon enough. Many of them have realized their mistake, yet they are too terrified and cowardly to admit it. I agree with your last sentence in each of the last two paragraphs. Have a good day. I'm going outside for a while. Peace

Hi elfkind,

Not to derail the issue of your thread, but...

As I see it, and yes I will immediately say that I accept that others, generally of the Republican brand, won't agree, this Arizona 'audit' and the other 'audits' being threatened, along with all the lost court filings and just total inability to accept that no one could be so smart as to hide what they are claiming is being hidden regarding the outcome of this election, just makes the Republican party just a party of total gonzos.

Then you throw in the likes of Marjorie Greene and so many republicans with similar worldviews that it just seems to me that, as a whole, republicans just don't have a solid grasp on reality. I mean I get that there is a lot of disagreement, but I'm talking about the kinds of stories that are being told that are just seemingly completely made up out of thin air.

I even understand this fight of conservative vs. liberalism, but that doesn't explain 'facts' just being made up. I get that a lot of people think that as a nation we are moving towards a more liberal culture. What with all the issues regarding aberrant sexual behavior and abortion and so forth, and I'm all for discussion and debate on the 'right' or 'wrong' of such issues. But there just seems to be a general air of make believe, even when discussing some of these issues, that are thrown out as 'factual claims' that, at least as far as I'm concerned, should make the true christian, who should supposedly be seeking for truth and righteousness, cringe at the use of such claims and accusations.

I mean really! By now everyone should feel confident that there really wasn't any serious fraud involved in our last election. I mean no one could be as deceitful and smart to hide the things that would need to have been hidden for this election to have been 'stolen' as the many republicans would claim. Yet, this storyline of fraud and theft regarding the last election continues. Personally, my mind says, "how can seemingly smart people really be so dumb"?

It's kind of like the weapons of mass destruction that Pres. Bush told us were there. Once we got into Iraq and began looking around, it became obvious that we'd been fed a bill of goods in pretty short time.

God bless,
Ted

Brihaha said:

Maybe the reason conservatives feel they don't have a seat at the table is because they don't hold politicians accountable at the ballot box! Voting for a letter leads to the exploitation of said voters.

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You probably do have a valid point there.

I reckon this was the time republicans birthed "alternative facts" to feed their voters.

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One poorly chosen turn of phrase by one press secretary does not make it the POV of anyone else, let alone that party in general.

Of course the resentment of a black president certainly played a role.

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No, it didn't.
There is much more racism on the other side of the aisle and, anyway, the resentment over Republicans and Conservatives being shut out of negotiations over Obamacare was genuine and understandable.

The doors in Congress were actually locked to everyone else while 'Democrats Only' finalized the provisions. Obama ridiculed the Republican leaders to their faces for having so much as suggested modifications to the bill after he, Obama, invited them to a meeting to supposedly work together on the bill. As he explained it to them, HE was in charge now!

When I was growing up, people got news from network TV and newspapers. While there were some irresponsible newspapers, mostly people knew the facts, even if they disagreed on policy. The internet, cable, and talk radio now allow people to broadcast bad information more easily, and of course there is an obvious commercial advantage to telling people what they want to hear.

But I agree that the fact that most Republicans think the election was stolen, and the widespread misinformation related to a Covid, create a question whether the US can continue as a democratic country. It also seems to have turned CF into a political site. I seldom see any serious theology or discussion of Christian living.

There’s some evidence that centrists are starting to turn back the populists worldwide. There’s still hope here I think, but Republicans have to get over Trump. That’s not going to happen quickly, because he controls so much funding for candidates.

Albion said:

You probably do have a valid point there.

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See, with perseverance folks can find common ground. It only took six months of arguing hahaha. And I will concede a poorly chosen phrase uttered by an advisor (Kellyanne Conway I believe) doesn't make it the point of view of everyone else. There, we done had us a quid-pro-quo and I feel good. Have a good day my friend. Peace

The Barbarian said:

It does seem that Vladimir Putin has an obsessive interest in keeping Trumpism alive. But whether it's because he has some compromat on Trump, or just because he wants to keep America as weak as possible, is unclear.

What is clear, is that Putin does not have the best interests of America in mind.

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He also supported Brexit. I think it’s clear he wants America as weak and isolationist as possible.

Aldebaran said:

Our reputation overseas has never been worse.

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Well, that's coming back now that we have an adult in the WH again...

America’s reputation on the global stage appears to have significantly rebounded since former President Donald Trump left office and President Joe Biden became the commander in chief, according to a Pew Research Center survey released Thursday.


Biden gets much higher ratings than Trump, and U.S. favorability is up significantly

The Barbarian said:

Well, that's coming back now that we have an adult in the WH again...

America’s reputation on the global stage appears to have significantly rebounded since former President Donald Trump left office and President Joe Biden became the commander in chief, according to a Pew Research Center survey released Thursday.

Biden gets much higher ratings than Trump, and U.S. favorability is up significantly

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But will it last? My impression is that a lot of voters expect miracles from Biden, but only rhetoric from Trump. Biden can’t deliver miracles, but Trump can deliver rhetoric, and so can many of his followers. Easy but wrong answers are easier to sell than complexity.

hedrick said:

A large part of the US population likes that kind of leader, even though if you ask about policies one by one, Americans generally support Democratic policies.

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Oh really. Does the majority support abandoning US citizens in Afghanistan because of our chaotic exit? I doubt it. Does the majority favor open borders? I am quite sure they don't. Does the majority favor increasing government spending by trillions and trillions of dollars and taxes along with it (or because of it)? The polls don't say so. Does the majority favor the President of the United States governing by edict as he does? And those are merely samples.

hedrick said:

But will it last? My impression is that a lot of voters expect miracles from Biden, but only rhetoric from Trump. Biden can’t deliver miracles, but Trump can deliver rhetoric, and so can many of his followers. Easy but wrong answers are easier to sell than complexity.

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Maybe so. But the results from California show a lot of suburban republicans are still not getting with the program Trump set up. It's why he lost in Arizona, even though it's a solid red state. Huge numbers of suburban republicans voted a straight republican ticket... except for Trump.

Albion said:

Oh really. Does the majority support abandoning US citizens in Afghanistan because of our chaotic exit?

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They got them out. Thought you knew. Last time Fox News checked, there were maybe 100 out of over 6,000 Americans yet to leave when the troops left. And more came out on charters after that. So about 98.4%. Better than Vietnam. But then Biden let the commanders on the ground decide how to make it happen. And they did better than politicians.

Go figure.

Albion said:

Does the majority favor increasing government spending by trillions and trillions of dollars and taxes along with it (or because of it)?

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Hmm... don't know... (Barbarian checks)

Majorities back Biden spending plan, infrastructure bill: poll
The USA Today-Suffolk University survey indicated that about 63 percent of Americans support the roughly $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill, which passed the Senate earlier this month, USA Today reported on Wednesday. Almost all Democrats but only 36 percent of Republicans polled reportedly support the plan.

The $3.5 trillion reconciliation package, which is geared toward Democratic priorities and has been advertised as a "human infrastructure" bill, received less support but still a majority at 52 percent, including 90 percent of Democrats, nearly half of independents and 20 percent of Republicans.
Majorities back Biden spending plan, infrastructure bill: poll

Kinda surprising that it's supported by majorities like that, but the country has been moving to the left for several years. The democrats, not entirely fairly, have sold Donald Trump as the typical conservative.

Albion said:

Does the majority favor the President of the United States governing by edict as he does?

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Uh... he lost last November. But it's likely his argument that as president, he could do whatever he wanted, helped beat him:

Trump Claims Article 2 Gives Him ‘The Right To Do Whatever I Want As President’
Trump Claims Article 2 Gives Him 'The Right To Do Whatever I Want As President'

Real conservatives were alarmed at his claim to be able to rule by edict. Biden reversed a lot of his executive orders, and all of the unconstitutional ones.

Aldebaran said:

Are you speaking of the "adult" who just wasted 85 Billion dollars in high tech weaponry to arm the Taliban

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Trump gave them those weapons. You really didn't know that? As you would have known, if you were watching, you would have learned that the Taliban said they felt "betrayed" because our troops, leaving the country, disabled all that high-tech stuff they thought they were going to get.

Because we don't know what Trump promised them, I'm guessing that they just learned what a Donald Trump promise is worth.

Albion said:

Does the majority favor open borders?

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Joe Biden doesn't. In fact, no American president since the early 1900s has. Until then, we did have open borders. But as you might have known, if you were paying attention, Biden is increasing deportations:

Biden admin ramps up deportation of Haitians
Biden admin ramps up deportation of Haitians as 10,000 migrants shelter under Texas bridge

Pays to read the morning paper.

Albion said:

Oh really. Does the majority support abandoning US citizens in Afghanistan because of our chaotic exit? I doubt it. Does the majority favor open borders? I am quite sure they don't. Does the majority favor increasing government spending by trillions and trillions of dollars and taxes along with it (or because of it)? The polls don't say so. Does the majority favor the President of the United States governing by edict as he does? And those are merely samples.

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I stand amazed. Someone claiming that the present leader governs by edict. Really???? like all the 'former guy' did, since he couldn't work well with others, was to govern by edict.

Increasing government spending by trillions????? When the 'former guy' took the reigns of governance the FED debt was almost $20T. By Oct. 2020 it was nearly $28T.

We have never had open borders. I really don't get why people don't really seem to understand how our borders, and quite honestly the borders of pretty much all the nations work.

We had some 100 - 350 U.S. citizens still in Afghanistan when we left, depending on who you listen to. You really can't make any claim with assurance that the 'former guy' wouldn't have left just as many when he pulled out in May. Some of them may be people who don't want to leave. They may have established families over the last 20 years and prefer to stay because a lot of their relatives live in country. So far, no one really knows exactly how many Americans there are in Afghanistan that want to get out. We know that there are some because we hear from them, but we don't really have any idea of a real total number.

BTW, when we left Vietnam, it was estimated that about 50 Americans were left behind after Saigon was completely and permanently evacuated. It seems to be a reality of ending wars, especially long ones, that some Americans are often not evacuated by the time the country is considered no longer militarily held or occupied.

So, I hear your complaint, but honestly, most of it sounds like the cry of someone suffering from 'sour grape' syndrome. Things just made up just to argue an issue. I mean really, the 'governing by edict' and 'trillions of dollars in debt', are just totally not issues that have only been a part of the new administration, but have actually been worse, if you actually count up the numbers, in the 'former guys' administration. I mean the facts are there if you care to look.

BTW, if you remember in 2017 when the 'former guy' took over, he issued edict after edict after edict to undo all that the one former to him had done. So, this idea that Pres. Biden may have issued a lot of 'edicts' to undo what the previous guy did, started with your guy!!!!!!!

God bless,
Ted

Elfkind said:

I follow news from around the world, but specially USA have been worrying with such a division between it's citizens because of politics. Also I'm worried in particular for Christian brothers and sisters, as it seem like the Republican Party have a huge influence on Christians, and to me it seem like the right wing is playing with the stability of the world, and sapping the strength of democracy. The recent election in California for example, the Republican candidate declared voter fraud before the election was even done, so I wish I could explain how it all seem like from the outside. It's all the same to me whomever is the president there, but political attacks on the voting process and the claims about fraud, something that seem obvious to not be true, but it's just as obvious that a lot of Americans really don't know right from wrong anymore. So when I heard the news of the general in the Trump-administration reassuring the Chinese, that themselves were horrified and expected war, I can only remember myself the pure horror when it seemed like they was trying to hold on to power, despite losing an election. I would just not follow it all anymore and forget about it, if not for the fact that USA and whatever happen there is likely to have an effect on my own little country.

Does anyone from the USA with a similar observation, only not as worried about it all? Is the states likely to get back the earlier stability?

I didn't write this because I want to argue about anything, just sharing my observation and trying to make sense of the political situation, so if anyone have some insight and can share insight into how not to worry, I'd be glad.

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Yea. It is embarrassing that Donald Trump made an effort to undermine our democratic elections. But Donald Trump of course isn't the typical candidate. He has a lot of pride and never admits to any failure, and so it wasn't particularly surprising when he denied losing.

But I'd say people are more at odds over the pandemic than Trump. Trump is old news. But the pandemic too will subside. Even if it takes a million dead Americans to get there, we will make it through. Truth be told, it's more of a debate of political freedoms these days. Even in the face of thousands of dead Americans every day, should someone have the freedom to choose not to inject themselves with a vaccine? And there really isn't an easy answer. In one hand we hire government to protect us. Someone breaks into your house, you call a government employee (police) to protect you. The virus is interesting though because it creates weapons out of people, to transmit itself. Whereas it becomes unclear if the host is commiting a crime by not resisting infection and allowing themselves to serve as hosts for a breeding virus. While on the other hand, even though we have a government to defend our rights, including the right to live, forced inoculation is somewhat akin to Nazi Germany.

I suspect that we will just have to ride things out. Many more Americans will die. And eventually we will just get tired or wrestling and will get back to normal. Just have to express ourselves first.

Aldebaran said:

The weapons weren't for the Taliban, but the Afghan military.

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But Trump gave them to the Taliban after all, didn't he? He was still handing out sophisticated helicopters and other equipment long after he knew we'd be leaving and the Taliban would get them. Apparently, that was part of the deal.

The Taliban said they were "betrayed" when our troops made all of our equipment unusable. Maybe that's what the extreme right is so angry at Biden for.

And as you just learned, Biden opposes open borders.

Biden admin ramps up deportation of Haitians
Biden admin ramps up deportation of Haitians as 10,000 migrants shelter under Texas bridge

Pays to read the morning paper.

Aldebaran said:

The Left-biased media writes those. So no thanks.

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Would have saved you some embarrassment, this time. Think about it.

Sketcher said:

but they don't have as many allies in the mainstream media who will cover for them

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Fox News is one of the most watched mainstream media outlets in the US. You must be aware of that, no? It’s puzzling that people continue to push the glaringly obvious untruth that conservative politicians don’t have media cheerleaders. And by comparison with all the really crazy stuff, Fox is pretty moderate and even allows for a different viewpoint occasionally.