Nero the beast poll

2PhiloVoid · Sep 18, 2021

Douggg said:
I created this poll to see how many here think Nero was the beast of Revelation.

And how many here do not think Nero was the beast of Revelation

I'd have to say that I honestly don't think Nero, all by his squirrelly little self, constitutes the multi-headed, multi-horned Beast of Revelation chapter 13-:1-10.

Gregory Thompson · Sep 18, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
It's clear to me that you don't know what you're talking about. If you did, you'd be able to show it with scripture.

Not necessarily. We've had enough post reformation centuries to illustrate how scripture does not speak one message when interpreted by human beings.

jeffweedaman · Sep 18, 2021

Michael Collum said:
Which was my point?

Sounded like you believed whole nations were judged

Acts 17
24 The God who made the world and everything that is in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made by hands; 25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might feel around for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His descendants.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the descendants of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by human skill and thought. 30 So having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now proclaiming to mankind that all people everywhere are to repent, 31 because He has set a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all people by raising Him from the dead.”

Gregory Thompson · Sep 18, 2021

jeffweedaman said:
Sounded like you believed whole nations were judged

Sounds like an assumption, too exhausting to explain now that preconceived notions are in play.

jeffweedaman · Sep 18, 2021

Michael Collum said:
Sounds like an assumption, too exhausting to explain now that preconceived notions are in play.

Its not that I am committed to misunderstanding you Michael.

Gregory Thompson · Sep 18, 2021

jeffweedaman said:
Its not that I am committed to misunderstanding you Michael.

I didn't get a sense of that. It's not about me, just a concept.

Jamdoc · Sep 19, 2021

Nero was dead before Revelation was written.

3 Resurrections · Sep 19, 2021

2PhiloVoid said:
I'd have to say that I honestly don't think Nero, all by his squirrelly little self, constitutes the multi-headed, multi-horned Beast of Revelation chapter 13-:1-10.

Not all by himself, but he was PART of it as one of the 10 crowned emperor horns.

3 Resurrections · Sep 19, 2021

Jamdoc said:
Nero was dead before Revelation was written.

That is a typical misunderstanding, based for the most part on a single inserted word in Irenaeus' one sentence about the Antichrist's identity, but it's an idea that does not align with all the time indicators within Revelation itself. All of these combined pin down Revelation's date to a quite precise time period between late AD 59 and early AD 60; while Nero was in power.

2PhiloVoid · Sep 19, 2021

3 Resurrections said:
Not all by himself, but he was PART of it as one of the 10 crowned emperor horns.

We don't "know" that for sure. There's too much guessing for too long from too many Eschatological angles on all of this for me to easily concur.

At the same time, I'm not going to bash any fellow Christians over the head because they disagree with me on this, either.

3 Resurrections · Sep 19, 2021

Not a fan of the "bashing" procedure either, but it happens. Hope I've not been guilty of that myself. I'll tell you what really clinched the Sea Beast's identity for me, though, and that was comparing Revelation 2:13 to Revelation 13:2. "Satan's seat" or "throne" (thronos) that was in the city of Pergamos was given to the Sea Beast.

The Roman Senate records that in 133 BC, King Attalus III gave his entire Pergamum kingdom and "Satan's seat", (the 40' tall altar in the city of Pergamos, the capital) into the hands of his ally, the Roman Republic, as a dying bequest, since the king had no heir to whom he could pass his Pergamum kingdom. That confirms to me that the Sea Beast (aka Daniel 7's 4th "dreadful and terrible" beast) was definitely connected in some way with ancient Rome, even before it became an empire. The 10 horns on this Sea Beast that were connected somehow with ancient Rome are an easy fit with the 10 horns as emperors to whom Israel was subjugated before its destruction. Nero's biography matches the literal time period of 42 months of the Sea Beast "making war" on the saints and "wearing them out" with persecution starting with the aftermath of the AD 64 fire at Rome and lasting until shortly before Nero's death in AD 68.

2PhiloVoid · Sep 19, 2021

3 Resurrections said:
Not a fan of the "bashing" procedure either, but it happens. Hope I've not been guilty of that myself. I'll tell you what really clinched the Sea Beast's identity for me, though, and that was comparing Revelation 2:13 to Revelation 13:2. "Satan's seat" or "throne" (thronos) that was in the city of Pergamos was given to the Sea Beast.

The Roman Senate records that in 133 BC, King Attalus III gave his entire Pergamum kingdom and "Satan's seat", (the 40' tall altar in the city of Pergamos, the capital) into the hands of his ally, the Roman Republic, as a dying bequest, since the king had no heir to whom he could pass his Pergamum kingdom. That confirms to me that the Sea Beast (aka Daniel 7's 4th "dreadful and terrible" beast) was definitely connected in some way with ancient Rome, even before it became an empire. The 10 horns on this Sea Beast that were connected somehow with ancient Rome are an easy fit with the 10 horns as emperors to whom Israel was subjugated before its destruction. Nero's biography matches the literal time period of 42 months of the Sea Beast "making war" on the saints and "wearing them out" with persecution starting with the aftermath of the AD 64 fire at Rome and lasting until shortly before Nero's death in AD 68.

That could be. But unfortunately, I've read too much from too many sources for me to think exactly one way or another on all of this.

I will say that, at the moment, I think Nero plays into the nature of the 1st Beast on the whole [i.e. one of its heads, vis-a-vis Rome], but not to the 10 "later" horns. Those I think represent the Barbarian peoples who each, over the last two millenia, have further coagulated into the various Nation-states of modern Europe, both West and East.

But I could be wrong and won't be dogmatic about it. What if the Preterists are right? Or what if the Amillenialists are right, or the Post-millenialists? Well then, in any of those cases, I'd have to revise and let the Lord do what He wants to do in the way He's going to do it.

3 Resurrections · Sep 19, 2021

2PhiloVoid said:
But I could be wrong and won't be dogmatic about it. What if the Preterists are right? Or what if the Amillenialists are right, or the Post-millenialists? Well then, in any of those cases, I'd have to revise and let the Lord do what He wants to do in the way He's going to do it.

That's a pretty solid frame of mind to go with, when one is juggling the varying interpretations. As of 9 years ago, my Bible journal notebooks were written in pencil for that very reason. I toss the results of my studies online in various Christian websites HOPING that any error within them will be scripturally challenged if there is something seriously wrong with them. I actually gain more benefit from opposing views than I do otherwise, since it makes me review all scripture related to the topic to make sure they all agree.

timtams · Sep 26, 2021

Jamdoc said:
Nero was dead before Revelation was written.

Not according to Tertullian.

timtams · Sep 26, 2021

Dave G. said:
We know he was at this time near the end of his life, He was a prisoner there . We know this to be in the 90's AD just by simple historic fact.

You mean by one ambiguous statement of Irenaeus. There are reasons many scholars date it to the 60s.

Jamdoc · Sep 26, 2021

timtams said:
Not according to Tertullian.

Well, compare the world we have now, is this really the new earth that was promised?

Hammster · Sep 27, 2021

Jamdoc said:
Well, compare the world we have now, is this really the new earth that was promised?

It’s getting there slowly by our standards. But right on time by God’s standards.

timtams · Sep 27, 2021

Jamdoc said:
Well, compare the world we have now, is this really the new earth that was promised?

I hope not. But an early dating of Revelation doesn't make preterism correct. Facts are still facts, and Tertullian and others placed Revelation in Nero's reign (but they didn't identify Nero with the beast). Historically, the early date is the best, but we shouldn't be basing eschatology on that.

3 Resurrections · Sep 27, 2021

Jamdoc said:
Well, compare the world we have now, is this really the new earth that was promised?

Yes, it certainly is, according to the specific terms laid out by Isaiah 65:17-25. Many consider this "New Earth" to be a sort of utopian afterlife of the eternal state. However, by Isaiah's description, the conditions under the New Heavens and the New Earth are present-day realities for the saints which Isaiah said would include all of the following, (many of which cannot be the realities of the eternal state).

#1) Eventual death for the righteous (Isaiah 65:20)
#2) The presence of sinners (Isaiah 65:20)
#3) Building houses to live in and planting crops (Isaiah 65:21)
#4) The birth of offspring - "neither shall they beget children to be cursed..." (Isaiah 65:23) We know there is no marriage or giving in marriage in the resurrected state, and no reproduction needed anymore to replace those who die, so Isaiah was writing about a time BEFORE the eternal state arrived for the saints.
#5) Prayer requests directed to God, which would not be necessary if we were in God's very presence in eternity (Isaiah 65:24)

All these "New Heavens and a New Earth" conditions above are realities that presently exist now under the New Covenant, as well as the other metaphors in Isaiah 65 that express favorable spiritual conditions under this current New Covenant we are under.

Jamdoc · Sep 27, 2021

3 Resurrections said:
Yes, it certainly is, according to the specific terms laid out by Isaiah 65:17-25. Many consider this "New Earth" to be a sort of utopian afterlife of the eternal state. However, by Isaiah's description, the conditions under the New Heavens and the New Earth are present-day realities for the saints which Isaiah said would include all of the following, (many of which cannot be the realities of the eternal state).

#1) Eventual death for the righteous (Isaiah 65:20)
#2) The presence of sinners (Isaiah 65:20)
#3) Building houses to live in and planting crops (Isaiah 65:21)
#4) The birth of offspring - "neither shall they beget children to be cursed..." (Isaiah 65:23) We know there is no marriage or giving in marriage in the resurrected state, and no reproduction needed anymore to replace those who die, so Isaiah was writing about a time BEFORE the eternal state arrived for the saints.
#5) Prayer requests directed to God, which would not be necessary if we were in God's very presence in eternity (Isaiah 65:24)

All these "New Heavens and a New Earth" conditions above are realities that presently exist now under the New Covenant, as well as the other metaphors in Isaiah 65 that express favorable spiritual conditions under this current New Covenant we are under.

Lions still eat other animals, venomous snakes can still kill children so they most certainly shouldn't play with them or stick their hands in a viper's den, weapons are big business they are not being scrapped to be remade into farming equipment.

Try again.
If this is the new earth, I'm so disappointed in god that I couldn't worship him.

Good thing I think Preterists are deluded and that God has a better plan than that and He is actually worthy of worship.

Nero the beast poll

Was Nero the beast of Revelation

Yes, he was

No, he was not

Get my point, Web-Maker ???

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Well-Known Member

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Well-Known Member

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Watching and Praying Always

That's 666 YEARS, folks

That's 666 YEARS, folks

Get my point, Web-Maker ???

That's 666 YEARS, folks

Get my point, Web-Maker ???

That's 666 YEARS, folks

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Watching and Praying Always

Psalm 144:1

Well-Known Member

That's 666 YEARS, folks

Watching and Praying Always

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