Teacher Resigns After Parent Complains Pride Flag Is "Personal Agenda"

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TLK Valentine

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I thought everyone knew of the 3/5ths compromise.

You'd be surprised... But you probably shouldn't be.

They may not know that it was the slave owners arguing for slaves to be counted as equal people...and northerners who wanted them counted as less than 3/5ths....but I've never met anyone who didn't know.

And those who don't know that much might not realize that the slave owners wanted them "counted" as people solely for the purpose of determining Congressional representatives without the hassle of actually treating them as people, as opposed to chattel... and the northerners wanted them not counted at all to limit the political influence of the slave states... which would be used to promote more slavery.

Some people know half the story, and some know none of it at all.
 
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bekkilyn

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So any notions of forced pledges and nationalism are bad? I'd hope we're in agreement there

So you're just upset because you had to say the pledge of allegiance in school? Would you have rather said the pledge of allegiance to the USSR or to China instead? Civics and good citizenship is a part of our education and isn't nationalism. Having a degree of appreciation and loyalty to the country in which we are citizens isn't really too much to ask. It's one thing to just reside here, but if you're going to be a *citizen* then there is some expectation that you are going to participate in some way in being a part of "we the people" even if it's just getting off of one's rear end once every couple or four years or so and voting.

Not remotely comparable, because the image of a person has an explicit meaning, versus a vague national symbol that can be taken to extremes in the idea of authoritarian obedience, which is where we get to with the idea that you have to love America or leave, no attempts at improving it, because we prefer the status quo

So you're idea of improving it is burning it down and stomping all over it? It's not that you have to love America or leave, but if you have utter contempt and hatred for a country, then maybe you would be better off in a different one.

Problem is LGBTQ are marginalized and suffer hate crimes, Americans don't within their own country because of being an American, it's plenty of other traits that motivate prejudice. A supposedly unifying symbol shouldn't be used by domestic terrorists as a bludgeon to enforce obedience and conformity to what they think is appropriate, that's why people want things to be better and do the burning as a symbolic act, you're conflating dishonestly with items that don't have the same societal significance historically.

So LGBTQ in America are not Americans? Do they stop being LGBTQ if they become citizens? Do they have their own country somewhere else with the rainbow flag as their national flag?

Do we somehow stop being marginalized by our race or sex if we become citizens? Why didn't someone tell me that that misogyny and rape and domestic abuse, for example, in America would completely vanish if all females would just gain American citizenship! No need for any education on racial issues because American citizenship solves the problem because Americans living in America (which included a variety of races last I checked) don't experience any marginalization whatsoever.

While you might think stomping on and burning a flag is a positive symbolic act, if it's not the message that is received by the rest of the people in the country, then you're sending a different message. And while it might make you temporarily feel better, it doesn't actually work to promote lasting and positive change if you're the only person who believes that stomping on and burning a flag isn't a display of hatred and contempt for the thing you are symbolically destroying.

No, because MAGA is innately divisive and pits people against each other, the rainbow flag doesn't even start to do that except by delusions of persecution from privileged straight people who feel "victimized"

The MAGA is not any more or less innately divisive than the rainbow flag or any other political or religious flag. The fact of the matter is still that the U.S. flag is our national flag and MAGA and rainbow flags are not and that's why the U.S. flag is acceptable in public school buildings and MAGA and rainbow flags are not.

I don't think even the official flag should be there, I thought I made that clear, because it isn't as unifying as you believe it to be merley because it has some legal influence and tradition. That's like saying we should just forget that the Pledge didn't have under God in it until the 50s and just pretend it was always like that

Now we're back to the pledge again. If you want "under God" removed once again from the pledge, then use the same process that was used back in the 50's to put it in there in order to get it removed. I suppose it's easier to just play the victim card though as if you are the only marginalized person here.
 
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tall73

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So they can just arbitrarily determine what's okay and no one can call them out on hypocrisy? I feel like you're giving them too much credit. And jurisprudence is different than policy, the latter of which can be determined as unconstitutional

Since this response was in regards to displaying the flag in the classroom, of course people can call them out on hypocrisy. But as of now the flag is mandated in MO in the public school. So it is not a question of whether they can put up the flag or recite the pledge of allegiance. They are mandated to do so.

An individual student is not mandated to participate. This is not currently a legal grey area at all in MO law. So if you want changes you will have to push for legislation, or a challenge of constitutionality could be brought. but I am doubtful the government courts would find that the government school cannot fly the government flag.

People have a right to be unpatriotic period

Of course they do. I was noting that students have the right in school where there rights have been ruled to be somewhat limited (control on student behavior, profanity, etc.) Students do not have to stand for the pledge, respect the flag or anything else. That has already been through the courts.

it should not be this divisive nonsense people feed into because they want to "unify" by the very force they claim to oppose from the government, but have no problem with pressuring via social consequences when it suits them (ostracism, exclusion, discrimination)

You need to distinguish between the law of the land, and the court's interpretation of those, and my opinion.

I see no need to have a flag in the classroom. But the law in Missouri requires it since 2016 for schools receiving public money.

2016 Missouri Revised Statutes
TITLE XI EDUCATION AND LIBRARIES (160-186)
Chapter 171 School Operations
Section 171.021 Schools receiving public moneys to display United States flag--requirement to recite Pledge of Allegiance once per school day--students not required to recite.

Universal Citation: MO Rev Stat § 171.021 (2016)

171.021. 1. Every school in this state which is supported in whole or in part by public moneys, during the hours while school is in session, shall display in some prominent place either upon the outside of the school building or upon a pole erected in the school yard the flag of the United States of America.

2. Every school in this state which is supported in whole or in part by public moneys shall ensure that the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America is recited in at least one scheduled class of every pupil enrolled in that school no less often than once per school day. Flags for display in individual classrooms may be provided by voluntary donation by any person. No student shall be required to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

(L. 1963 p. 200 § 11-2, A.L. 2002 S.B. 718, A.L. 2016 S.B. 638)
 
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SilverBear

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No, they are not the curriculum. But they are still chosen by the government. So they fall under things the government wants to promote. And they control the messaging at the government school.

They are not the same as a personal agenda of a teacher that he was advised not to promote.

And did you report them yet on your anonymous form?
you are still engaging in special pleading
 
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SilverBear

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Already answered multiple times.

But to humor you:

He presented the flag. He even said it worked as intended since students came to him privately.

And then after he was asked why he took it down he said it "represented" him and LGBT students. And if anyone had a problem with that they could probably find another class.
So he didn't say anything in class and followed the curriculum.
 
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SilverBear

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Didn't gossip.



Didn't name call.



I don't even know what you're trying to say here. Is English your second language? Are you native American? What's going on here?



Lol
you did name call and it's sad you can't man up and even admit that.
 
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tall73

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you are still engaging in special pleading

He has filed a complaint, so we will see. I doubt they will see his actions the same as an ROTC sign.

And you have your chance to report on the anonymous form.


So he didn't say anything in class and followed the curriculum.

Ignoring evidence presented to you doesn't convince folks.

Signs, flags, etc. have already been found to be speech by the courts.

And saying that those who don't like that the flag represents you and LGBT students can probably find another class is saying something.
 
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rjs330

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No, people don't step on the flag because they hate the country in itself, they hate what it's become and how people are trying to sweep that under the rug instead of owning it and trying to make things better, not "great", better.

Things are better. Way better. Instead of stomping on it they should be proud of it. America is a great country. The land of real.opportunity.
 
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bekkilyn

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Things are better. Way better. Instead of stomping on it they should be proud of it. America is a great country. The land of real.opportunity.

Indeed, it's not a perfect country and it's not the greatest at everything under the sun, but it's still a much better place to live than many other places. Now of course if you're living in a violent neighborhood at the moment or in an abusive situation, you might not be able to immediately see the opportunities, but the opportunities are at least there unlike in some other countries in which your lot in life is pretty much fixed with practically no hope of ever escaping it.
 
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Ana the Ist

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what you claimed and what you quoted were not the same thing

Sure they are. I may have paraphrased, but the meaning is the same .

If I was wrong, you would quote me...quote the post I quoted....and explain the difference between the two.

You aren't going to do that though.. because you can't.
 
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rjs330

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People have a right to be unpatriotic period, it should not be this divisive nonsense people feed into because they want to "unify" by the very force they claim to oppose from the government, but have no problem with pressuring via social consequences when it suits them (ostracism, exclusion, discrimination)

Hmmm..... Sounds exactly what the left is doing these days.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Oh, so a parochial school being outright discriminatory based on race and putting up a Confederate battle flag under the idea that it represents their values in terms of an interpretation of the Bible is legal? Purely hypothetical, but it's hardly impossible and applies to the logic where you think they can have ANY flag they want without qualification otherwise.

Their private status doesn't give them carte blanche under the law, just more leeway than public schools.

Now that's whataboutism.
 
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rjs330

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And they're reflective of a similar aspect in the present: we see black people who are even more successful, but they're the exception rather than any kind of tendency of actual improvement that isn't marginal at best, due to black families not having the advantage of wealth accumulation that white families have never had an issue with in terms of the discriminatory practices like redlining.

Success should be acknowledged, but not to the point that we act like things are just okay because we feel good about helping minorities as white people often can do and fall prey to that passive activist situation.

Those that are successful are evidence that the opportunity is there. They are NOT the exception. Cause blacks are mostly middle class or higher.

And wealth accumulation is a farce. Because in America you don't need it to be successful. My family and my wife's family were both dirt poor. We had no wealth. And yet we are successful by virtue of our pursuit. I know a LOT of people,white and black who did that.

And who feels good about "helping minorities"? What are you talking about? White people aren't running around helping them. They don't want our help. What they can't do it on their own? They need us white folks to help them? Just who do you think they are? They are just as capable as anyone else. They are smart, capable people. They have skills and talents just like anyone else. They don't need the great white hope swooping in to save the day.
 
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muichimotsu

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Now that's whataboutism.
Fine, but you're not helping by just saying, "Follow the rules," and not considering whether the rules are poorly thought out and benefitting the tyrannical minority who can threaten lawsuits instead of protecting common good and not treat minorities that are genuinely persecuted like garbage and engage in toxic dismissal of their problems
 
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muichimotsu

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Sure they are. I may have paraphrased, but the meaning is the same .

If I was wrong, you would quote me...quote the post I quoted....and explain the difference between the two.

You aren't going to do that though.. because you can't.
Don't write checks your mouth can't cash...
 
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muichimotsu

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Indeed, it's not a perfect country and it's not the greatest at everything under the sun, but it's still a much better place to live than many other places. Now of course if you're living in a violent neighborhood at the moment or in an abusive situation, you might not be able to immediately see the opportunities, but the opportunities are at least there unlike in some other countries in which your lot in life is pretty much fixed with practically no hope of ever escaping it.
So a fallacy of relative privation? Look it up, that's basically what you're doing, suggesting that our problems aren't as important because we seem to be so successful..but that's superficial at best by raw stats, and not even that accurate if we're talking standard of living and quality relative to say, some European countries.

No one is saying there aren't opportunities, the problem is that minorities will often fall through the cracks because we already assume they just aren't trying hard enough, as if that solves the problem by necessity rather than it being a systemic issue that isn't just going to work by throwing more money at one type of solution (policing or prison for two examples that clearly aren't working)
 
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