Doug Brents
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- Aug 30, 2021
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Seems everyone goes to James 2:19 and claims there is a "faith that does not save" using what the demons believe as an example.
No. That is not a “not saving faith”. That is “belief”. Belief and faith are not the same thing. There is no faith in the demons, because they have no action to give life to their belief.
Saving faith is fully trusting in Christ's work alone to save us. All we can do is receive it through trust/faith in Him.
Yes, we receive the finished work of Christ through faith. But dead faith cannot transmit salvation. If faith is dead it is worthless and useless.
Do you have a verse that includes all this in what saves?
As a matter of fact, yes.
2 Tim 3:16 - “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,”
All of the Bible is Scripture, yes?
That means that all of what is written is part of the doctrine of the Church.
That means that since God is infallible (1 John 1:5, Num 23:19), His Word (Scripture) is infallible, which means that if we have faith in one part (Jesus death, burial, and resurrection), then we can have faith in all the rest.
That being said, it is not possible to trust in one part of Scripture and not another. Just as with marriage, 99% faithfulness is 100% unfaithfulness.
Anyhoo, this doesn't make sense. No one can absorb everything He said. And much of what He said isn't related to salvation at all. So you are adding to Scripture.
No addition to Scripture here. All of what Christ said is related to salvation in that He is salvation. Everything He said deals with how we are to relate to Him, each other, and ourselves. It is all about bringing glory to Him.
I've already explained that you you've got just 1 verse about "obey". However, there are a multitude of verses that say only believe or faith. So you are misunderstanding Heb 5:9.
But, for clarification, please define what you think "obey" means in Heb 5:9.
If even a single verse says something (taken in context and interpretation), this it is truth. PERIOD.
Also, it must be combined and integrated with every other passages that relates.
You seem to think that just because John 3:16 (just as an example) only says “believes” leads to salvation that there is nothing else necessary for us to receive salvation. If that were so, then Acts 3:19 would not be correct. Nor would Rom 10:10. That would make Scripture false, and we have already established that Scripture contains no error.
So then, we must consider ALL the passages that say something leads to salvation (or forgiveness, or justification, or redemption, etc.) before establishing our doctrine on how salvation is received.
You are sounding as though it is your own "act of faith" that ultimately saves you.
Not at all. Christ’s Blood is the only thing that can save. But our faith is required as the conduit to bring us into contact with His Blood.
Read Rom 6:1-11 and Col 2:11-13
“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Rom 6:1-11
“11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, (by the Holy Spirit) by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,” Col 2:11-13
In these passages the full picture of the moment of salvation is seen. The old man of sin believes the Gospel. He is immersed in water (baptized), and in the water the Spirit acts to remove sin and unite him with Jesus. This is the moment when salvation occurs. As the conduit of our faith brings us into contact with the Blood of Christ (through the Holy Spirit) which washes us clean of all sin.
In Heb 5:9, what is the condition and what is the result?Obedience is commanded for those who already believe.
If your obedience is required for your salvation, then you are simply saving yourself by your own actions.
Does the verse say that those who are saved will obey?
Or does it say that those who obey will be saved?
“And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,”
Salvation goes to those who obey. Or,
Obedience comes from those who are saved.
You tell me.
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