Do you support vaccine mandates (Poll)

HARK! · Sep 17, 2021

muichimotsu said:
herd immunity

Oxford scientists claim that herd immunity to COVID-19 is unattainable

Oxford scientists claim that herd immunity to COVID-19 is unattainable

The concept of herd immunity has been offered up by health experts as a largely theoretical but important turning point in the COVID-19 pandemic. But hopes that the U.S. can achieve that critical mass of protection, whether by vaccination or natural infection, has started to wane, largely due to the Delta variant, says Mansoor Amiji, Northeastern University Distinguished Professor in the departments of pharmaceutical sciences and chemical engineering.

“In my opinion, the concept of herd immunity no longer exists,” Amiji says.

It could be too late to stop the Delta variant–and to achieve ‘herd immunity’ from COVID-19.

HARK! · Sep 17, 2021

1rreducibly Complex said:
A supermajority (92%) of Democrats support a vaccine mandate for flying

Perhaps they should tell their legislators.

Texas Democrats in DC is a 'super-spreader,' doctor says Psaki 'refusing to acknowledge a medical reality'

At least 6 of the 55 Texas Democrats have tested positive for coronavirus -- and so have 2 Washingtonians

Texas Democrats in DC is a 'super-spreader,' doctor says Psaki 'refusing to acknowledge a medical reality'

Dave G. · Sep 17, 2021

The fact that Washington is exempting themselves from the mandate makes it a no deal for me. I'm vaccinated but it was my choice and at that only in the last month after watching those around me for a while. I haven't been vaccinated for flu in 20 years with no flu thus far. I decided to be observant and washing hands regularly and have avoided flu even with others sick around me.

If they should ever find a cure and mandated it, that's another matter. Like polio and several others in my lifetime that we beat out of society by mandated vaccines. The current vaccines are not cures, they are blow out patches at best. On top of that I rather doubt the variants will stop coming. Plus they have no cure for any other corona virus, much less Covid or flu..

The new heaven and new earth will be void of these things, we aren't there yet obviously, perhaps much to the dismay of the full preterists view point !

Original Happy Camper · Sep 17, 2021

The CDC Suddenly Changes the Definition of ‘Vaccine’ and ‘Vaccination’

OLD
He highlights the definition of terms on August 26, 2021.

Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.

Immunization: A process by which a person becomes protected against a disease through vaccination. This term is often used interchangeably with vaccination or inoculation.

That had been their definition since at least May 16, 2018, according to PJ Media.

New

But then, come September 1, suddenly there was a big change.

Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

Vaccine: A preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but some can be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce protection from a specific disease.

Immunization: A process by which a person becomes protected against a disease through vaccination. This term is often used interchangeably with vaccination or inoculation.

https://www.citizensjournal.us/the-cdc-suddenly-changes-the-definition-of-vaccine-and-vaccination/

Petros2015 · Sep 17, 2021

Petros2015 said:
They seem to feel like something is about to kill them
And I'm not sure I disagree
I just don't think it's the thing they think it is
And I don't think there's a vaccine for it

Light of the East said:
Maybe this is why they are so opposed:

COVID Shot Equals Genocide According To Doctor | NaturalHealth365

I this it might be this, and I think I'm not immune to it either (another CF thread I started, somewhat in response to the invite - but it was the invite that prompted me to revisit the video and clip for myself)

Checkmate. (the social dilemma)

1rreducibly Complex · Sep 17, 2021

muichimotsu said:
Oh boy...explain the "bad science" and also...if you think you have a better plan for addressing this pandemic, then please, tell everyone, because otherwise you're part of the problem.

There is an extraordinarily long list of people who have proposed better ideas than vaccine mandates to address COVID.

Basic science is all people need. I'll give you an example of how basic science can deduce a better plan than vaccine mandates.

Basic Science 101

1. COVID-19's mortality rate is 1% or lower.
2. Only 1% of the population that is high risk for COVID need a vaccine. (Due to vaccines not preventing COVID infection, but rather being marketed as boosting a person's immune response)

High risk demographics for developing a serious COVID case are as follows: the elderly(high blood pressure), those with high blood pressure, the obese (high blood pressure) and similar demographics. The specific reasons for these demographics being high risk for COVID are documented and known.

Demographics with high blood pressure could see a huge benefit to surviving COVID simply by taking steps to be more healthy and reduce blood pressure. Increasing zinc and vitamin D consumption could also provide health benefits for high risk COVID demographics. There are many steps aside from vaccines, which people could take to improve their health and chances of surviving COVID which are being ignored.

Bottom line: if COVID's mortality rate is lower than 1% and kills less than 1 out of every 100 people it infects. What's the point in vaccinating 99 out of 100 people who are not high risk COVID demographics. There is zero benefit to it as we know vaccines do not prevent infection. Mandates are simply bad science, to say the least.

Petros2015 · Sep 17, 2021

rocknanchor said:
Not False! Don't underestimate those of us who know how to prove the source!

Take off every 'Zig my friend. For Great Justice.

Aussie Pete · Sep 17, 2021

1rreducibly Complex said:
Most Americans Now Want Vaccine Mandates For Planes, Hotels And Restaurants, Per Gallup

Nearly two years into a pandemic that shows no end in sight, a majority of Americans now support vaccine mandates for travelers. Most Americans now believe that people should be required to show proof of Covid-19 vaccination before getting on a plane, staying at a hotel, dining in a restaurant and attending large events, according to the latest Gallup poll.

In the four months between April and August, as the delta variant swept across the U.S., support for travel-related vaccine mandates ticked noticeably upward.

More than six in 10 Americans (61%) now support requiring proof of full vaccination before getting on a plane — up from 57% in April 2021.

Support for vaccine mandates for hotel guests reached majority status in August, notching up 9 percent from 44% in April to 53% in August.

The largest shift in attitudes about vaccination mandates involves eating out. Between April and August, there was a whopping 13% jump in support for having to show proof of vaccination status before dining in a restaurant. Now 53% of Americans support such a requirement, compared to 40% four months ago.

Nearly six in 10 (58%) of Americans now support a vaccine mandate for attending large events like concerts and festivals — up from 55% in April.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, Americans who are already vaccinated tend to favor vaccine mandates for travel, while the unvaccinated oppose them. Nearly eight in 10 (79%) of vaccinated Americans support having to show proof of vaccination status for air travel, compared to just 22% support among the unvaccinated.

Affiliation with a political party is also strongly related to opinions on vaccine requirements. A supermajority (92%) of Democrats support a vaccine mandate for flying, compared to just 29% of Republicans. Independents are split right down the middle, with 50% supporting and 50% opposing such a requirement for air travel.

Most Americans Now Want Vaccine Mandates For Planes, Hotels And Restaurants, Per Gallup

...

Vaccine mandates are bad science and a poor plan for addressing COVID.

I oppose them.

What does everyone else think?

Mandates are not bad science, they are an affront to personal liberty. It's a difficult choice. We are forced to comply with a lot of regulations that we may not like. Seat belts, for example. I think mandating vaccines is a step too far. It's not an external thing, it is invasive. I've had the jab and I have no problem with getting the booster. But no, it should be a choice. And the unvaccinated are going to catch it anyway. They'll be immune or dead. Problem solved.

1rreducibly Complex · Sep 17, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
the unvaccinated are going to catch it anyway. They'll be immune or dead. Problem solved.

More than 99% of people are immune.

The question is whether the vaccine helps or hurts this trend.

It doesn't necessarily have to do the former. It could also be the latter.

Aussie Pete · Sep 17, 2021

1rreducibly Complex said:
There is an extraordinarily long list of people who have proposed better ideas than vaccine mandates to address COVID.

Basic science is all people need. I'll give you an example of how basic science can deduce a better plan than vaccine mandates.

Basic Science 101

1. COVID-19's mortality rate is 1% or lower.
2. Only 1% of the population that is high risk for COVID need a vaccine. (Due to vaccines not preventing COVID infection, but rather being marketed as boosting a person's immune response)

High risk demographics for developing a serious COVID case are as follows: the elderly(high blood pressure), those with high blood pressure, the obese (high blood pressure) and similar demographics. The specific reasons for these demographics being high risk for COVID are documented and known.

Demographics with high blood pressure could see a huge benefit to surviving COVID simply by taking steps to be more healthy and reduce blood pressure. Increasing zinc and vitamin D consumption could also provide health benefits for high risk COVID demographics. There are many steps aside from vaccines, which people could take to improve their health and chances of surviving COVID which are being ignored.

Bottom line: if COVID's mortality rate is lower than 1% and kills less than 1 out of every 100 people it infects. What's the point in vaccinating 99 out of 100 people who are not high risk COVID demographics. There is zero benefit to it as we know vaccines do not prevent infection. Mandates are simply bad science, to say the least.

Sounds good, but it's flawed. No one can be sure who is high risk and who is not. The first wave affected mostly older people. Delta is making life miserable for much younger people.

Australia has 26 million people. 1100 have died from COVID. The US has 340 million people. 135,000 have died from COVID. As a percentage of population, Australia has only fraction of the deaths that the US (and for that matter the UK) have suffered. And 800 of those deaths were in one state where the response the the pandemic was initially ineffective.

You should also have a bit of consideration for the hospital staff who treat patients. They were early victims because there was not enough PPE. Have you tried on an N95 mask? They are horrible. I felt like I could not breath and it was just for 15 minutes. Hospital staff wear them for half a day.

Sweeping statements are not facts. Vaccinated people are much less likely to catch COVID. If they do, they are much less likely to suffer serious effects and even less likely to die.

This time last year I was in hospital with a potentially fatal illness. If I had caught COVID at the same time, I doubt that I'd be here to talk about it.

Aussie Pete · Sep 17, 2021

1rreducibly Complex said:
More than 99% of people are immune.

The question is whether the vaccine helps or hurts this trend.

It doesn't necessarily have to do the former. It could also be the latter.

More than 99% are immune? Where did you get that figure?

1rreducibly Complex · Sep 17, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
Sounds good, but it's flawed. No one can be sure who is high risk and who is not. The first wave affected mostly older people.

The elderly trend higher for high blood pressure on average.

COVID infection (which generally infects the lungs) multiplies the negative health effects of high blood pressure. Which is where the majority of serious COVID cases stem from.

It can be scientifically defined which demographics are high risk for COVID.

Suggesting that people unfortunately perish from COVID with the specific cause being unknown or undefinable in this era of modern medicine is bad science to say the least. The cause can always be determined.

Aussie Pete said:
More than 99% are immune? Where did you get that figure?

COVID-19's official mortality rate is less than 1%.

Which means roughly 99% of people are not at risk for developing a serious case of it.

Larniavc · Sep 17, 2021

1rreducibly Complex said:
More than 99% of people are immune.

Simply untrue and irresponsible. Shame on you.

Petros2015 · Sep 17, 2021

1rreducibly Complex said:
Bottom line:

Let me ask you a very simple question, which points back to my response,
which is the 1 Other/Undecided vote, and the 2nd response on the thread:

Why are Multiple Votes allowed?

It doesn't seem like it's an important question - but the answer is really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really important to what's going on.

1rreducibly Complex · Sep 17, 2021

Larnievc said:
Simply untrue and irresponsible. Shame on you.

More than 99% of people will not develop a serious case of COVID.

They will only have a mild reaction to it, similar to what they would have with the flu.

Which means they are immune.

Aussie Pete · Sep 17, 2021

1rreducibly Complex said:
The elderly trend higher for high blood pressure on average.

COVID infection (which generally infects the lungs) multiplies the negative health effects of high blood pressure. Which is where the majority of serious COVID cases stem from.

It can be scientifically defined which demographics are high risk for COVID.

Suggesting that people unfortunately perish from COVID with the specific cause being unknown or undefinable in this era of modern medicine is bad science to say the least. The cause can always be determined.

COVID-19's official mortality rate is less than 1%.

Which means roughly 99% of people are not at risk for developing a serious case of it.

Tell that to 135,000 dead Americans. 1 in 500. If you think that is acceptable, I have to disagree. We are talking people, families, not statistics.

1rreducibly Complex · Sep 17, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
Tell that to 135,000 dead Americans. 1 in 500. If you think that is acceptable, I have to disagree. We are talking people, families, not statistics.

Roughly 600,000 americans die from (preventable) heart disease every year.

Its been a trend for a long time.

No one thought that number was relevant until COVID came along.

Petros2015 · Sep 17, 2021

1rreducibly Complex said:
Bottom line:

Petros2015 said:
Why are Multiple Votes allowed?

Ah, never mind - that feature just means you can check more than 1 box; it's still just 1 vote.
The answer would have been 'it's a feature that coders put in'
(and still is)
But it's not one that would have made the point I was trying to make

Aussie Pete · Sep 17, 2021

1rreducibly Complex said:
Roughly 600,000 americans die from (preventable) heart disease every year.

Its been a trend for a long time.

No one thought that number was relevant until COVID came along.

Maybe in the USA. In Australia, there is the National Heart Foundation that rates foods according to heart health. It's taken pretty seriously here.

The difference is that a good deal of heart disease is, as you say, preventable. It's not contagious or infectious. What we need urgently is a vaccine against obesity. I wonder how many people would object to that!

Light of the East · Sep 17, 2021

Hans Blaster said:
This is false, completely false.

1. It is a vaccine (or rather there are 3 vaccines available in the US and several others in other countries). It works in the standard fashion of a vaccine -- it induces an immune response that teaches the immune system to recognize future invading viruses and kill them.

2. The mRNA particles and the spike proteins they manufacture only last in the blood for a few hours, not years.

3. It has not kill thousands of people.

Whatever news source you got these clearly false talking points from -- stop reading it as they lie to you.

The "news source" I have found is the United States government. The VAERS reporting system of the federal government has reported over 13,000 deaths. But I guess that isn't good enough for you is it?

If your point 1 was true, the fully vaccinated people would not be coming down with the virus in record numbers. In Israel, for instance, 40 to 50% of the new cases of 'Rona are from fully vaccinated people, which makes it obvious that the "vaccine" is not recognizing and killing the invading virus or these people would not be catching it.

The spike protein is deadly. It is going to cause a massive die off in the future. And the survival rate for people who catch the virus is 99% (95% in people my age). You don't mandate a shot that people do not want with that kind of survival rate. This is tyranny, pure and simple.

Do you support vaccine mandates (Poll)

Do you support vaccine mandates

Yes

No

Undecided or other (please specify)

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