Sin...?

SabbathBlessings · Sep 16, 2021

parousia70 said:
I agree. But I don't think its our Job to determine who is doing which, and therefore proclaim whether or not they are saved.
Our job is to FORGIVE ALL sinners, as Jesus forgives us.

Only Jesus can forgive sins and only Jesus can determine what is in our hearts. The scripture does teach us to look for clues about people, so we are not deceived, but that is different than knowing what is in the heart.

parousia70 · Sep 16, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
We are all sinners, but I do believe with God all things are possible even gaining victory over sin.

Jesis IS our Victory over Sin.
Its not something Jesus DOES for us, it's somethign Jesus IS for us.

Are you saying we should not strive to gain victory over sin?

Not at all.
I'm saying it's not our Job to parse out who among us is Striving for that victory and who isn't.
Our Job is to sort our own Journey, and to FORGIVE everyone else. EVERYONE else.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 16, 2021

parousia70 said:
Jesis IS our Victory over Sin.
Its not something Jesus DOES for us, it's somethign Jesus IS for us.

Please clarify as I don't want to interpret what I think you mean.

parousia70 said:
Not at all.
I'm saying it's not our Job to parse out who among us is Striving for that victory and who isn't.
Our Job is to sort our own Journey, and to FORGIVE everyone else. EVERYONE else.

Of course not, we are not to judge, Jesus is our only righteous Judge but we are to help each other and teach each other the commandments of God and God's Word. Matthew 5:19

spiritfilledjm · Sep 16, 2021

parousia70 said:
I agree. But I don't think its our Job to determine who is doing which, and therefore proclaim whether or not they are saved.
Our job is to FORGIVE ALL sinners, as Jesus forgives us.

That is definitely true. We should never judge where one is going to end up in the end. However, if we know one is living in sin, whatever the habitual sin is, and that they aren't fighting against it, we ought to warn them about what the bible says about it like Jesus' warning against those who come to Him saying Lord, Lord and he will respond back go away, I never knew you, you workers of iniquity. There's also the warnings in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Hebrews 6:26-27.

This type of discipleship, however, should be with someone within your sphere of influence and not just some random person on a web forum lol. Of course, people ask this type of question on here and that's fine but I would still caution anyone from saying "IF YOU ARE LIVING IN SIN YOU ARE GOING TO HELL!!!!" But rather do it from a place of love and just matter of factly post the scriptures. There have been times where all I've done just posted the two scriptures above and if one ask for more detail, I attempted to explain my position and take on the verses. Never, however, do I ever say you are beyond help and going to hell. Nobody is beyond help until they take their last breath and all brain functions cease.

parousia70 · Sep 16, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Only Jesus can forgive sins

Yet Scripture COMMANDS us to Forgive one another's Sins, Just as Jesus forgives ours... in fact, the Command is clear, if we do NOT forgive the sins of our Brothers and Sisters, we will likewise NOT be forgiven of our own Sins by Jesus!
If We ask Jesus to Forgive us of our sins, but we refuse to forgive our brother or sister, we will not enjoy forgiveness in Christ.

That's pretty black and white... scripture does not provide any wiggle room on that.

Yet, when we DO forgive our bretheren, we shall likewise be forgiven in Jesus:

Matthew 18:35
My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Matthew 6:14
For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Mark 11:25
Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you your transgressions.

Luke 6:37
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned.

Ephesians 4:32
Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

Colossians 3:13
bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.

2 Corinthians 2:7
so that on the contrary you should rather forgive and comfort him, otherwise such a one might be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.

Luke 17:4
And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.”

TedT · Sep 16, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
Might be taking a very grave risk or chance with your eternal life or soul,

Some people were chosen for salvation from the beginning, others were not: 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. I will repeat: God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation...

There is no risk or hope of moving from one of these groups to the other, only the high road of choosing quickly to be holy and righteous and passing by the low low road of painful discipline in your training to become righteous, Heb 12:5-11 that EVERY legitimate sinful child of GOD undergoes.

parousia70 · Sep 16, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Please clarify as I don't want to interpret what I think you mean.

I'll attempt to clarify.

Hebrews 9:26
He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

As were my first words in this thread "Jesus has PUT AWAY SIN."

It in IN HIM that our Sins are remembered no more.

He doesnt Look at us who turn to Him and say... "well, you're sins are minor so I will forgive them easily, but yours are worse so I'm gonna have to work harder at forgiving them".

Ours is to Repent and Believe, put our sins at His feet, as He eternally Stands before God in our stead. He Is the Personification of our Victory. It is in His PERSON that we too are forgiven when we turn to Him. It is not a separate Task He performs for each of us.

Clare73 · Sep 16, 2021

Clare73 said:
All that remains is the Decalogue, which is fulfilled in Jesus NT commands of Matthew 22:37-40 (Romans 13:8-10).

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello Clare I know this was posted to someone else. Hope you do not mind me passing a few comments....

This teaching of lawlessness under the new covenant that many have been deceived into believing is unbiblical nonsense not supported by the scriptures.

According to the scriptures unless we are born again we cannot enter into the Kingdom of heaven *John 3:3-7. We need to be born again into Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. We need to be Born again according to John because we commit sin and we do not have the love of God in us (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6; John 5:42) and sin is defined as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments (James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7 and Romans 3:20).

According to the scriptures Love (the Spirit of the law from the heart) is not separate from God's law (10 commandments). Love is expressed in obedience to God' law resulting in the fulfilling of the letter of the law". Therefore ""Love is not separate from God's law it is expressed in obedience to God' law.

This is actually expressed in the very scriptures you provided in your post in Matthew 22:36-40 and Romans 13:8-10 and also in James 2:8-12 and in 1 John 5:2-3 as shown below...

Matthew 22:36-40 [36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Jesus is not saying that love is separate from God's law he is says that on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets which is what Gods' Word says that are not my words but Gods' Word which have been simply repeated to you verbatim. Paul agrees with Jesus when he says...

Romans 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another hath fulfilled the law [past tense]. [9], FOR THIS (or what this means), THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP IN THE SAYING, NAMELY THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS YOUR SELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law [present tense active].

Paul is agreeing with Jesus and not saying that love is separate from God's law he is says that love is expressed in obedience to Gods law and says that if we love another we will obey those commandments in God's 10 commandments (letter of the law) that show us how we are to love our fellow man by quoting those commandments verbatim. Paul is showing that to love our neighbor as our self is simply summing up those commandments in God's law that show us how we are to love our fellow man. These once again are God's Word not my words which have only been repeated to you from the scriptures. James also agrees with Jesus and Paul where he says...

James 2:8-12 [8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:[9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

James agrees with Jesus and Paul where he links loving our neighbor as our self to obedience to all those commandments in Gods 10 commandments (letter of the law) that show us our duty of love to our neighbor. Once again these are God's Word not my words which have only been repeated to you from the scriptures verbatim. John also agrees with Jesus Paul and James where he says...

1 John 5:2-3 [2], By this we know that we love the children of God, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [3], FOR THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

.........................

Jesus did not fulfill the law so that we no longer have to. Jesus fulfilled the law because he is our example and we are to follow him *1 Peter 2:21. He also kept the law perfectly to be Gods' sinless sacrifice for the sins of the world because the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's Grace (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-31). If God's law in the new covenant is abolished than Jesus would not have had to die for our sins. This is a teaching of lawlessness (without law) and is a false teaching that has led many away from God and His Word. According to the scriptures without holiness (that comes from God - Philippines 2:13) no man can see God *Hebrews 12:14 and unless a man is born again into Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 he cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven. According to Jesus Gods' salvation is from sin *John 8:31-36 not a license to continue to live a life of known unrepentant sin. If we live a life of sin we are in danger of the judgement according to Paul in Hebrews 10:26-31 and the wages of sin is death *Romans 6:23.

Hope this is helpful

See my statement in the post you quoted above.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 16, 2021

Clare73 said:
See my statement in the post you quoted above.

Yes thank you.

Please see post # 85 linked which addresses these comments...

Clare73 said: ↑ You are correct, the law is not made just obsolete, it is abolished.

Clare73 said: ↑ All that remains is the Decalogue, which is fulfilled in Jesus NT commands of Matthew 22:37-41 (Romans 13:8-10).

As shown in the linked post and the scriptures provided, Love (the Spirit of the law) is not separated from obedience to the letter of the law. Love is Gods' new covenant promise that fulfills Gods' law in us according to the scriptures so that we can be obedient to God's law according to the scriptures as we believe and follow Gods' Word *John 8:31-36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; 1 John 3:4-9.

...................

Post # 86 linked posted just after post # 85 linked from the previous section, also addresses your earlier posts and comments in regards to Hebrews 7:12 and Ephesians 2:15 with a detailed scripture response showing that Hebrews 7:12 is a reference to the Mosiac laws of the Priesthood needing to be changed to accommodate Jesus birth into the tribe of Judah and the new Priesthood of the new covenant and Ephesians 2:15 is a reference to the laws in ordinances that separated the Jews from the gentiles under the old covenant with both now being reconciled by the blood of Christ under the new covenant. None of those references are talking about God's 10 commandments being abolished.

Take Care.

Clare73 · Sep 17, 2021

Clare73 said:
the "law" which was weak and useless to make perfect (Hebrews 7:18),
the "law" that was weak and powerless in that it was weakened by the sinful nature (flesh)--Romans 8:3,
the "law" that was a curse for all who relied on it (Galatians 3:10),
the "law" that made no one righteous (Romans 3:20),

the "law" that was excluded from righteousness/justification (Romans 4:4-6),
the "law" with its commands and regulations that was abolished on the cross (Ephesians 2:15).

SabbathBlessings said:
The scriptures came straight from the bible and directly responds to all of the scripture you quoted all you have to do is read it. You have yet to provide scripture that's says we are now allowed to worship other gods, vain Gods name, bow to idols, break God's holy Sabbath day, covet, steal, bear false witness, not honor our parents, commit murder and adultery. If you think these type of behavior and is the character God wants for His children, I am going to leave that between you and God. God bless

More dodging and equivocating. . .

One more time, you did not specifically address the Scriptures I presented above, showing they do not teach what I present them as teaching.

First things first. . .when you do that, I will then address the Scriptures you present.

Clare73 · Sep 17, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
People seem to believe that Jesus is okay with us living a life of perpetual sin.

That is a red herring (deliberate misrepresentation), and you know it.

Clare73 · Sep 17, 2021

spiritfilledjm said:
He is, but there is a big difference between choosing to live in sin and choosing to fight against one's temptation to sin.

And no believer claims believers may live a life of habitual sin.
That is deliberate misrepresentation.

spiritfilledjm · Sep 17, 2021

Clare73 said:
And no one claims believers may live a life of habitual sin.
That is deliberate misrepresentation.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who profess a belief in Jesus Christ that believe exactly that.

Clare73 · Sep 17, 2021

Clare73 said:
All that remains is the Decalogue, which is fulfilled in Jesus NT commands of Matthew 22:37-41 (Romans 13:8-10).

LoveGodsWord said:
Yes thank you.

Please see post # 85 linked which addresses these comments...

This teaching of lawlessness under the new covenant that many have been deceived into believing is unbiblical nonsense not supported by the scriptures.

As shown in the linked post and the scriptures provided, Love (the Spirit of the law) is not separated from obedience to the letter of the law. Love is Gods' new covenant promise that fulfills Gods' law in us according to the scriptures so that we can be obedient to God's law according to the scriptures as we believe and follow Gods' Word *John 8:31-36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; 1 John 3:4-9.

...................

Post # 86 linked posted just after post # 85 linked from the previous section, also addresses your earlier posts and comments in regards to Hebrews 7:12 and Ephesians 2:15 with a detailed scripture response showing that Hebrews 7:12 is a reference to the Mosiac laws of the Priesthood needing to be changed to accommodate Jesus birth into the tribe of Judah and the new Priesthood of the new covenant and Ephesians 2:15 is a reference to the laws in ordinances that separated the Jews from the gentiles under the old covenant with both now being reconciled by the blood of Christ under the new covenant. None of those references are talking about God's 10 commandments being abolished.

You can do better than this. Is that what I stated above?

What's with the misrepresentation by you and Sabbath Blessings?

Clare73 · Sep 17, 2021

spiritfilledjm said:
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who profess a belief in Jesus Christ that believe exactly that.

Wow!

Well, it's not anything I am presenting or defending, and it is what I present/defend that should be addressed to me, not what others present, unless so stated as such.

I still expect in an honest discussion that what I present will be specifically addressed, and failure to do so indicates "less than honest" participation.

spiritfilledjm · Sep 17, 2021

Clare73 said:
I still expect in an honest discussion that what I present will be specifically addressed, and failure to do so indicates "less than honest" participation.

I responded to your response to me which was responding to my response to Parousia's question about God forgiving us for every sin.

Clare73 · Sep 17, 2021

spiritfilledjm said:
I responded to your response to me which was responding to my response to Parousia's question about God forgiving us for every sin.

I was referring to another conversation, not our conversation.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 17, 2021

Clare73 said:
You can do better than this. Is that what I stated above? What's with the misrepresentation by you and Sabbath Blessings?

Hello Clare, did I have a misunderstanding of what you posted here...?

Clare73 said: ↑ You are correct, the law is not made just obsolete, it is abolished.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 17, 2021

Clare73 said:
More dodging and equivocating. . .

One more time, you did not specifically address the Scriptures I presented above, showing they do not teach what I present them as teaching.

First things first. . .when you do that, I will then address the Scriptures you present.

Well this is not to me again but your scriptures were specifically addressed here in post # 86 linked

Take Care.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 17, 2021

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