COVID vaccine hesitancy: Why people don't want the shot

d taylor

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Trust the government are you kidding. I would not trust the government to do my laundry. let alone trust them to give me a drug/biological product to be injected into my body. Not only my body but a healthy body at that, that takes no prescription drugs.

There is nothing i trust or believe the government on now. and i see no reason to start now. Nothing has change concerning government they still lie 90+% of the time.
 
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Mayzoo

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We know that doesn't happen due to many vaccinated testing positive for COVID.

Vaccines are supposed to prevent serious health issues developing from COVID infection. They're supposed to strengthen the immune system and help people fight off the COVID infection.

But there is a question of whether negative side effects like blood clots outweigh any potential benefits they might provide.

I've noticed that many who view corporations as the source of all evil in the world, have no problem with mega corps in the big pharma sector. If google, amazon, facebook and large corporations are evil. Shouldn't big corporations like pfizer also be evil? How does that work exactly.

Blood clots are more common with Covid infection than with Covid vaccines:

Blood clots with J and J vaccine: 11 cases per 21,895 (in the clinical trial)=0.0005%

A. "Thromboembolic events:
  • Deep vein thrombosis: 6 events (2 serious; 5 within 28 days of vaccination) vs 2 events (1 serious; 2 within 28 days of vaccination)
  • Pulmonary embolism: 4 events (3 serious; 2 within 28 days of vaccination) vs 1 event (serious and within 28 days of vaccination)
  • Transverse sinus thrombosis with thrombocytopenia: 1 event (serious, with onset of symptoms 8 days post-vaccination) vs 0" Here

Covid infection blood clot risk: 20% for those not in ICU and 31 % for those in ICU. (see below quote B)

B. "Overall, 20 percent of the COVID-19 patients were found to have blood clots in the veins, and among patients in the intensive care unit, that statistic increased to 31 percent." Here
 
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ThatRobGuy

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1. Fauci's alleged role in funding gain of function research in China
I would agree...he doesn't seem to be forthcoming with that aspect
2. Vaccine passports, once considered a foil hat conspiracy theory, now look very likely
Whether or not the topic was considered "conspiracy" doesn't have any impact on whether or not they're a prudent idea given what we know currently.

For instance, many thought anti-smoking efforts were just a farce, that doesn't vindicate people in the "tobacco risks are just a hoax" camp.
3. It's now clear that two jabs will probably never be enough
Not uncommon... tetanus shots are recommended every 10 years. And we get flu shots every year.
4. Endless moved goalposts and lies from the UK government has totally cratered the trust between people and government
Can't say I'm familiar with the UK-specific parts of the conversation
5. Trashing of simple, inexpensive treatments and prophylactics that have now been shown to be helpful in reducing the impact of covid
Many of the "treatments" have been shown to be nonsense.
6. Massive numbers of adverse effects reported on VAERS
VAERS isn't a reliable source, it's 100% user-submitted and not reviewed for accuracy. It's basically no more reliable than Yelp.
7. Little or no recognition of naturally derived immunity created by a previous covid infection
I would agree with you there... natural immunity should be taken into account.

However, given that rates of infection among unvaccinated (as well as rates of hospitalizations and deaths) are increasing at a much faster rate than among the vaccinated, I suspect that people are over-estimating how much natural immunity exists among the unvaccinated population.

But...I have stated before, I'd be cool with people showing a positive antibody test in lieu of vaccination requirements. However, when I've brought that up to people who don't want to get the vaccine, they've had a problem with that idea too.
8. Breakthrough infections in double vaccinated people
Yes, but breakthrough infections are less frequent than infections in unvaccinated, and the data on hospitalizations and deaths show that vaccinated are far less likely to get a serious case.

For instance, in my own state of Ohio, where vaccinated and unvaccinated is pretty much evenly split 50/50

upload_2021-9-15_21-33-40.png


...the data is clear that one group is at significantly more risk than the other.
9. Coercive policies such as no-jab-no-job, despite the fact that vaccinated people can still become infected and infect others

My previous answer applies here as well. Vaccinated are less likely get the virus (therefore less likely to carry it), and are significantly less likely to have severe outcomes (which impacts the bottom line of the companies that are paying for their company healthcare plan)
10. The money trail, such as the involvement of people who donated vast amounts of cash to the World Health Organisation
The money trail is a non-starter. Every innovation has massive funding behind it. That doesn't immediately make it some nefarious conspiracy by default.
 
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rambot

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Basic science: blood clots are a known and leading cause of heart attacks.

Were vaccines confirmed as causing blood clots?

Yes.

What does the heart do? It pumps blood. What does a blood clot do? It restricts blood flow, which naturally affects the heart.

"Absolutely no link made" is an interesting way to describe it.
I mean geez guy you don't even know what causes heart attacks.
And clots cause aneurysms and embolisms.
No greater way to underscore both your credibility and you point than getting basic science incorrect.
In the future, I'd you're going to be condescending, please don't be embarrassingly incorrect.

But I'm willing to still argue your incorrect point.

You need to understand that each INDIVIDUAL CASE would need to be shown a connection. You can't (well, you can but statisticians and epidemiologists can't) say vaccine caused it just because it happenned when it did. That'd absurdly lazy.

Blood clots aren't caused in 100% of shots. Blood clots aren't always fatal. Blood clots happen after operations or flying...and randomly..or in heavy drinker

Birth control creates a higher risk of a blood clot that the vaccine. Obesity. Smoking. Prolonged sitting or bedrest, family history...geeez it goes on and on.


No correlation
No causation.

Just desperation
 
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rambot

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VAERS is co-managed by the CDC and the FDA, and exists as:

"...the nation’s early warning system that monitors the safety of vaccines after they are authorized or licensed for use by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)."

This link is useful in explaining the limitations of VAERS, though it does not dismiss reportage obtained by it (as some seem determined to do).

VAERS | Vaccine Safety | CDC
You'll note the mandate...reporting adverse events "after taking the vaccine"

That gets conflated to mean "because of" the vaccine and that is NOT an appropriate deduction.

Even still though the numbers they provide, in the context of the number of vaccine doses it's infinitesimal.
 
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Halbhh

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rambot

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I wouldn't voluntarily take the vaccine for the same reasons I wouldn't voluntarily take SSRIs, antidepressants, painkillers, fentanyl or big pharma drugs.

Vaccines are produced by for profit corporations who only care about their bottom line and don't appear to mind profiting from the pain and misery of humanity.

The drugs (and vaccines) they produce normally carry far worse negative side effects than the illness and disease they're supposed to treat.

Vaccines are supposed to be a cure. But in the history of big pharma, the cure is often worse than the disease.
Wow. What a load of toss. Tell me about a vaccine that was worse than the illness.
 
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I mean geez guy you don't even know what causes heart attacks.
And clots cause aneurysms and embolisms.

Can a blood clot cause a heart attack?

Can a blood clot cause a heart attack? - Quora

Zaya Kusov
, Amateur Biohacker at Medicine and Healthcare (2013-present)
Answered August 3, 2020
That's pretty much what a heart attack is. It's a blood clot, can come from nearly anywhere in the body, that gets lodged in a bad spot like a coronary artery. That prevents the blood from oxygenating the tissue and that process is what we call a myocardial infarction or heart attack.

...

Some of you might want to read more and make a basic effort to educate yourselves before commenting.
 
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rambot

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Can a blood clot cause a heart attack?

Can a blood clot cause a heart attack? - Quora

Zaya Kusov
, Amateur Biohacker at Medicine and Healthcare (2013-present)
Answered August 3, 2020
That's pretty much what a heart attack is. It's a blood clot, can come from nearly anywhere in the body, that gets lodged in a bad spot like a coronary artery. That prevents the blood from oxygenating the tissue and that process is what we call a myocardial infarction or heart attack.

...

Some of you might want to read more and make a basic effort to educate yourselves before commenting.
Heart attacks are caused by build ups of plaque on the sides of the arteries. When those break off they form clots.

I did not equate the mechanisms for a blood clot leading to a heart attack with one from a vaccine as they are vastly different.

So blood clots from atherosclerosis do cause heart attacks. My bad. You're right. The mechanisms that create the blood clots from vaccines are different though.
And that goes back to the original point I was making; correlation does not equal causation. So to tell whether someone died from an atherosclerosis based heart attack or a vaccine mechanism based heart attack would require an autopsy.

Edit...thanks for challenging me by the way. My first post was regurgitating university info from 22 years ago. For the second post I had to go read someone who knew what they were talking about (my Info was from the John's Hopkins page)
 
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Bobber

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There is no correlative LET ALONE causative connection between a vaccine and its side effect.

You can't prove that.

You get a vaccine and you have a heart attack 8 days later....up it goes on VAERS. ABSOLUTELY no link made; it's just they happenned around the same time.

You're just trying to be an optimist and hoping there's no link. Your motivation for thinking this way might be you just won't allow it to be even considered to be true as you might have taken a vaccine.
 
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rambot

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You can't prove that.
That is correct.(pssst. That's your job)

You're just trying to be an optimist and hoping there's no link. Your motivation for thinking this way might be you just won't allow it to be even considered to be true as you might have taken a vaccine.
Ha! Rest assured. I'm not at optimist at all.
I know that there is no link possible without an autopsy.

Sorry. Find me autopsy based data. Then we can talk.
 
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rambot

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Trust the government are you kidding. I would not trust the government to do my laundry. let alone trust them to give me a drug/biological product to be injected into my body. Not only my body but a healthy body at that, that takes no prescription drugs.

There is nothing i trust or believe the government on now. and i see no reason to start now. Nothing has change concerning government they still lie 90+% of the time.
Well do you trust doctor? Researchers or scientists?
 
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Bobber

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That is correct.(pssst. That's your job)

No it's not. On the Vaers system they're reports or claims of what might be correlations and they could be. In Canada they pulled off the AstraZeneca shot for one's first shot as they came to the high suspicion that it was causing blood clots. They didn't waste their time trying to prove it but if the data looks alarming they suspended it use. Very seldom are things absolutely proved beyond any shadow of a doubt.
 
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rambot

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No it's not. On the Vaers system they're reports or claims of what might be correlations and they could be. In Canada they pulled off the AstraZeneca shot for one's first shot as they came to the high suspicion that it was causing blood clots. They didn't waste their time trying to prove it but if the data looks alarming they suspended it use. Very seldom are things absolutely proved beyond any shadow of a doubt.
I'm not saying they didn't cause clots. I'm not saying all of vaersy is garbage. I'm saying that not incident can be linked without an autopsy.

My first dose was az. Wife too. No problem. Will be going into get a new shot though...
 
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Pommer

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Look up something called gardisil.

The anti HPV vaccine.

There is a long list of horrible side effects associated with it.
My browser history might not allow the search engine to go to JoeHatesVaccines dot com, how’s about a link?
 
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GOD Shines Forth!

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You'll note the mandate...reporting adverse events "after taking the vaccine"

That gets conflated to mean "because of" the vaccine and that is NOT an appropriate deduction.

Even still though the numbers they provide, in the context of the number of vaccine doses it's infinitesimal.

To use a popular refrain from the other side, "It matters to the (x-number) of adverse event victims that died!"
 
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Pommer

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No it's not. On the Vaers system they're reports or claims of what might be correlations and they could be. In Canada they pulled off the AstraZeneca shot for one's first shot as they came to the high suspicion that it was causing blood clots. They didn't waste their time trying to prove it but if the data looks alarming they suspended it use. Very seldom are things absolutely proved beyond any shadow of a doubt.
Yet the A-Z poke was never totally discontinued,
Per the Wikipedia page:
“Beginning 11 May, multiple provinces announced that they would suspend use of the AstraZeneca vaccine once again, citing either supply issues or the blood clotting risk. Some provinces stated that they planned to only use the AstraZeneca vaccine for outstanding second doses…”

They didn’t have enough so they weren’t using the stuff that they didn’t have any of.

SCARY!
 
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Sparagmos

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Basic science: blood clots are a known and leading cause of heart attacks.

Were vaccines confirmed as causing blood clots?

Yes.

What does the heart do? It pumps blood. What does a blood clot do? It restricts blood flow, which naturally affects the heart.

"Absolutely no link made" is an interesting way to describe it.
You can’t be serious. This is ridiculously sloppy logic.
 
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rambot

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To use a popular refrain from the other side, "It matters to the (x-number) of adverse event victims that died!"
So covid deaths mean what to you exactly?
Have any deaths been definitively linked even?
 
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