Matthew 12 Desolate Kingdom Prophecy

Mr. M

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The blasphemy of the H.S. (unpardonable sin) was committed by the pharisees who saw Jesus miracles and attributed them to beelzebub. Jesus is no longer walking this earth performing miracles in person and that sin can no longer be committed today. The unforgiveable sin cannot be committed today.
This statement is in contradiction to the Word of the Lord given here:
John 14:
12
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also;
and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
(promise for today,
by the Comforter, or Holy Spirit)

13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do,
that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
(promise for today, personally verified)
14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do. (promise for today)
15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, (the Holy Spirit, the Comforter)
that He may abide with you forever— (promise for today, personally verified)
17 the Spirit of truth, (the Holy Spirit, the Comforter)
whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him;
but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. (personally verified)
18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. (promise for today by the Comforter, verified)
19 A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me.
Because I live, you will live also. (promise for today, everlasting life)
20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. (today, verified)
21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.
And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and
manifest Myself to him
. (promise for today, personally verified)
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us,
and not to the world?
23 Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word;
and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

(promise for today, personally verified and fulfilled by the promised Holy Spirit, present today)
24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine
but the Father’s who sent Me.
(this statement can clearly be applied to the "kingdom divided
prophecy" under discussion from
Matthew 12:25-37)
25
These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name,
He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things
that I said to you.

Possibly the most wonderful promise and role the Holy Spirit plays in our present
lives. The Holy Spirit speaks to us, confirming every word ever spoken by Christ.
Anyone who would deny this and speak against this gift, and accuse a believer of
speaking by a devil, and not the Comforter, would be blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
There are divisions within the Kingdom of God in Christ for many reasons. Divisions
over the role of the Holy Spirit in the activities of the church are most serious, as they
will, as promised and prophesied by Christ, result in desolation for that division.

Matthew 12:25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: Every kingdom
divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided
against
itself will not stand.

This complete passage, through to verse 37 is the topic for discussion.
Is the word of Christ the spirit of prophecy?
Can divisions within the body of Christ stand if they are based on believing in
the ministry of the Holy Spirit?
Will there be a falling away?
When judgment begins within the church, will love not be final standard?
Is that love of Christ based on the Holy Spirit's presence?

Matthew 24:
10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.
11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness
to all the nations, and then the end will come.
 
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NotreDame

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Luke 1:1-2
Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.

1 Cor 9:1-2
Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord? 2 Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

1 Cor 15:3-9
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

hope this helps !!!

Sorry the bible defines who is an Apostle below and their qualifications. Once again your view is unbiblical.

The Bible defines “apostle” based on the Greek words used for “apsostle.” None of the verses you cited define what is an “apostle.” None, not one verse you’ve referenced, says, “X, Y, and Z is an apostle.” Not one. You are just making up defintions that do not exist in the verses you cited.

At best, the deduction is seeing Jesus post resurrection is sufficient to make one an apostle, but not necessary. There’s nothing in the verses declaring that to be an apostle one MUST have seen Jesus post resurrection.

And some verses aren’t helpful to your argument, as Paul hints at the varying opinions of whether he is an apostle as he states he “may not be an apostle” to some but he is an apostle to the Corinthians as he “was called by Jesus to preach the Gospel” and did so to the Corinthians. The Corinthians are the “seal” of his apostleship because he brought the Gospel to them.

And Paul’s treatment of the Corinthians as a “seal” of his apostleship conforms to the meaning of the Greek word for apostle is, “a messenger; one sent on a mission; someone commissioned by another to represent him in some way; a man called and/sent out by Jesus to preach the Gospel.”

Your repeated flaw is to ignore the plain text meaning, and the meaning of the words, to fit your beliefs. Your modus operandi lends itself to finding innumerable notions, ideas, and meanings as you divorce yourself from the plain text and the meaning of the words.

Rationally, you do not get to change the meaning of words. That makes for a great Alice in Wonder fictional tale between Alice and Humpty Dumpty, but a poor approach to textual exegesis.

So, no, none of what you said helps. The fact remind you have a flawed interpretation of the specific passage in Mark, no cogent or coherent defense of this interpretation, and your deduction the passage of Mark isn’t applicable to “those who believed” today does not follow from your premises.

It is time to allow the text to lead you to an interpretation rather than reading the text with your already established POV of what the text says and imposing your POV onto the text.

There’s no Biblical support for your view, precisely because you conveniently ignore the meaning of the Greek words used. My view is rationally consistent with the meaning of the Greek words used, which is to say my view is Biblical. Your view as being Biblical is weak and not supported by the text or any verses you cited to this far.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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The Bible defines “apostle” based on the Greek words used for “apsostle.” None of the verses you cited define what is an “apostle.” None, not one verse you’ve referenced, says, “X, Y, and Z is an apostle.” Not one. You are just making up defintions that do not exist in the verses you cited.

At best, the deduction is seeing Jesus post resurrection is sufficient to make one an apostle, but not necessary. There’s nothing in the verses declaring that to be an apostle one MUST have seen Jesus post resurrection.

And some verses aren’t helpful to your argument, as Paul hints at the varying opinions of whether he is an apostle as he states he “may not be an apostle” to some but he is an apostle to the Corinthians as he “was called by Jesus to preach the Gospel” and did so to the Corinthians. The Corinthians are the “seal” of his apostleship because he brought the Gospel to them.

And Paul’s treatment of the Corinthians as a “seal” of his apostleship conforms to the meaning of the Greek word for apostle is, “a messenger; one sent on a mission; someone commissioned by another to represent him in some way; a man called and/sent out by Jesus to preach the Gospel.”

Your repeated flaw is to ignore the plain text meaning, and the meaning of the words, to fit your beliefs. Your modus operandi lends itself to finding innumerable notions, ideas, and meanings as you divorce yourself from the plain text and the meaning of the words.

Rationally, you do not get to change the meaning of words. That makes for a great Alice in Wonder fictional tale between Alice and Humpty Dumpty, but a poor approach to textual exegesis.

So, no, none of what you said helps. The fact remind you have a flawed interpretation of the specific passage in Mark, no cogent or coherent defense of this interpretation, and your deduction the passage of Mark isn’t applicable to “those who believed” today does not follow from your premises.

It is time to allow the text to lead you to an interpretation rather than reading the text with your already established POV of what the text says and imposing your POV onto the text.

There’s no Biblical support for your view, precisely because you conveniently ignore the meaning of the Greek words used. My view is rationally consistent with the meaning of the Greek words used, which is to say my view is Biblical. Your view as being Biblical is weak and not supported by the text or any verses you cited to this far.
To many assumptions on your part but the facts remain .

1- judas died before Jesus Resurrection
2- Jesus was with the 11 and never told them to replace judas nor did He replace him then or tell the 11 to replace him.
3- Jesus told them to wait for the Holy Spirit at Pentecost that would guide them into all truth.
4- The disciples did not wait until then snd took things into their own hands
5- they practiced an OT way of casting lots that was never once practiced in the NT.
6- Matthias is never mentioned again
7- Jesus picked Paul and appeared to him in Person.
8- Paul impacted the church more than all the others combined.
9- Peter acknowledged that fact in Acts and 2 Peter 3
10- The rest is history and Matthias was forgotten, Paul not so !

conclusion : I’ll go with Jesus hand picked disciples / apostles over the 11 who made a rash decision and did not wait upon the Lord like commanded to

hope this helps !!!
 
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Clare73

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To many assumptions on your part but the facts remain .

1- judas died before Jesus Resurrection
2- Jesus was with the 11 and never told them to replace judas nor did He replace him then or tell the 11 to replace him.
3- Jesus told them to wait for the Holy Spirit at Pentecost that would guide them into all truth.
4- The disciples did not wait until then snd took things into their own hands
5- they practiced an OT way of casting lots that was never once practiced in the NT.
6- Matthias is never mentioned again
7- Jesus picked Paul and appeared to him in Person.
8- Paul impacted the church more than all the others combined.
9- Peter acknowledged that fact in Acts and 2 Peter 3
10- The rest is history and Matthias was forgotten, Paul not so !
conclusion : I’ll go with Jesus hand picked disciples / apostles over the 11 who made a rash decision and did not wait upon the Lord like commanded to


hope this helps !!!
To what command are you referring?
Where is the replacement of Matthias referred to by Jesus?
 
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To what command are you referring?
Where is the replacement of Matthias referred to by Jesus?
The disciples were told by Jesus to wait until Pentecost for the Holy Spirit before doing anything .
 
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Clare73

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The disciples were told by Jesus to wait until Pentecost for the Holy Spirit before doing anything .
Actually, his only command was not to leave Jerusalem to witness to the world, which they did not.

If Matthias had not been previously selected, he would not have been together with them in one place (Acts 2:1, Acts 2:14) to receive the Holy Spirit with them.
 
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Actually, his only command was not to leave Jerusalem to witness to the world, which they did not.

If Matthias had not been previously selected, he would not have been together with them in one place (Acts 2:1, Acts 2:14) to receive the Holy Spirit with them.
Of course he was with them but that does not nullify the fact that Jesus never told them to pick a replacement for judas and Jesus was with them for 40 days after the death of judas . Are you telling me Jesus was not aware that Matthias was around them when Jesus ascended in Acts 1 or prior ?

Also they were still being led by the flesh and were in hiding until Pentecost for fear of persecution/ death. They took matters into their own hands choosing judas replacement.
 
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Clare73

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Of course he was with them but that does not nullify the fact that Jesus never told them to pick a replacement for judas and Jesus was with them for 40 days after the death of judas .
Jesus did not ascend for 40 days, but Scripture does not report anything near Jesus' full-time presence with them during that time (Acts 1:1-5).
Are you telling me Jesus was not aware that Matthias was around them when Jesus ascended in Acts 1 or prior ?
So Jesus could not have picked a new apostle himself had he wanted to do so?
Also they were still being led by the flesh and
were in hiding until Pentecost for fear of persecution/ death.
Where do we find this narrative in the NT?

Why would Peter not be acting according to the Holy Spirit in his decision to select a new apostle?
They took matters into their own hands choosing judas replacement.
Where do we find "they" were "taking matters into their own hands" rather than Peter acting according to the Holy Spirit in his office as head of the apostles?
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Jesus did not ascend for 40 days, but Scripture does not report anything near his full-time presence with them during that time (Acts 1:1-5).

So Jesus could not have picked a new apostle himself had he wanted it to do so?

Where do we find this narrative in the NT?

Why would Peter not be acting according to the Holy Spirit in his decision to select a new apostle?

Where do we find what they did was "taking matters into their own hands?"
Jesus was around them and yet did not replace judas. He hand picked each one of them. Why wouldn’t He do the same if He wanted judas replaced ?

You don’t find that interesting at all ?
 
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Clare73

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Jesus was around them and yet did not replace judas. He hand picked each one of them. Why wouldn’t He do the same if He wanted judas replaced ?
Because it was now the function of the Holy Spirit?
You don’t find that interesting at all ?
Not really. . .Peter understood from the Holy Spirit that Psalms 69:5 and Psalms 109:8 meant that Judas had left a vacancy that needed to be filled, so they prayed, cast lots (which outcome God himself determines, Proverbs 16:33) and God determined Matthias would be the replacement.

Why all this questioning, judging, evaluating, second guessing etc. of God's holy apostles?
On what basis do we think we should be inserting ourselves into these accounts to determine if they meet with our approval?
Why do we not just receive the testimony of the Scriptures regarding them?

And there is no Scriptural testimony here warranting all this second guessing.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Because it was now the function of the Holy Spirit?

Not really. . .Peter understood from the Holy Spirit that Psalms 69:5 and Psalms 109:8 meant that Judas had left a vacancy that needed to be filled, so they prayed, cast lots (which outcome God himself determines, Proverbs 16:33) and God determined Matthias would be the replacement.

Why all this questioning, judging, evaluating, second guessing etc. of God's holy apostles?
On what basis do we think we should be inserting ourselves into these accounts to determine if they meet with our approval?
Why do we not just receive the testimony of the Scriptures regarding them?

And there is no Scriptural testimony here warranting all this second guessing.
Easy Jesus hand picked Paul and the rest is history. Matthias virtually forgotten and Paul well he wrote more of the NT than the other 12 combined . Mark, Luke, Acts and Hebrews were not written by the 12. That leaves Paul with 13/22 written by him or 59% of the NT was Paul and the remaining 41% by the 12.

And if you want to assign Hebrews to Paul then that makes 14 books.
 
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Clare73

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What's easy?
Jesus hand picked Paul and the rest is history. Matthias virtually forgotten and Paul well he wrote more of the NT than the other 12 combined .
Jesus picked Bartholomew and Thaddaeus--virtually forgotten also. . .meaning?
 
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What's easy?

Jesus picked Bartholomew and Thaddaeus--virtually forgotten also. . .meaning?
It’s really no big deal we can agree to disagree . You can have your opinion and I can have mine and we can both be right in one sense . The disciples filled judas spot and Jesus hand picked Paul as an Apostle to fulfill His ministry to the Gentiles .
 
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