New Evangelical Lutheran Bishop Breaks Ground.

Belk

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If they get out of the homosexual relationship and repent, there's no hate.

So, there is hate.

If they live as their God given gender, there's no hate.
But the problem is, we're expected to accept their sin.

No, you are expected to accept their RIGHTS. Just like the Christians who believe interracial marriage is a sin you can rail against the sin and hate on those whom do not take you seriously all you wish. It is when you try to legislate their rights away and force them back into the closet that you will get push back.
 
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Jamdoc

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So, there is hate.



No, you are expected to accept their RIGHTS. Just like the Christians who believe interracial marriage is a sin you can rail against the sin and hate on those whom do not take you seriously all you wish. It is when you try to legislate their rights away and force them back into the closet that you will get push back.

The bible doesn't say inter"racial" marriage is a sin.
the bible says we are all one blood and all descendants of Adam.
the bible does call homosexual acts abominations in both the old and new testaments.
 
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CatsRule2020

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After viewing this thread I am amazed that some professing believers, after all these years, still willfully choose to hold to spiritual blindness rather than accept objective truth in regards to this and a number of other hot-button subjects.
This should serve as solid proof that there is a powerful spiritual entity influencing us by appealing to negative pride rather than positive pride.

It is absolutely shameful to be publicly shown by an unbeliever, that a Christian does not know what fornication meant in the Old and New Testament. It's meaning has never changed.
 
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Belk

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The bible doesn't say inter"racial" marriage is a sin.

They say it does.
the bible says we are all one blood and all descendants of Adam.
the bible does call homosexual acts abominations in both the old and new testaments.
Other Christians disagree. They have the exact same moral authority you do. As I said, no one cares what you believe, only what you try to force others to do.
 
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Jamdoc

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They say it does.

Other Christians disagree. They have the exact same moral authority you do. As I said, no one cares what you believe, only what you try to force others to do.

No they don't.
The bible doesn't even acknowledge "races" the bible acknowledges different cultures, but that we are all the same species.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I know. Does your church have a rainbow flag in place of a Christian flag yet?

I'm not aware of any church replacing Christian flags with rainbow flags. My church's worship space on the outside of the chancel has an American flag and Christian flag.

What does legitimately concern me is when the cross is replaced or obscured by an American flag.

The conflation of nationalism with religion in America is a far more dangerous and prevalent problem. One that I consider a real problem with genuine danger.

-CrytpoLutheran
 
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Tinker Grey

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I'm not aware of any church replacing Christian flags with rainbow flags. My church's worship space on the outside of the chancel has an American flag and Christian flag.

What does legitimately concern me is when the cross is replaced or obscured by an American flag.

The conflation of nationalism with religion in America is a far more dangerous and prevalent problem. One that I consider a real problem with genuine danger.

-CrytpoLutheran
Yeah. It's funny. I grew up in an independent fundamental baptist church (before it's current vile incarnation) and we had a "Christian" flag and a US flag.

My wife grew up Mennonite and thought that, as just a poor wayfaring stranger, how odd it was to honor earthly institutions in the church.

Having to have an external symbol when the Holy Spirit ought to be all the allegiance you need is just tawdry.
 
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Paulos23

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If you read the book of Job you'd understand how God would respond to such constructive criticism
but to put it shortly "Who are you to question me? Were you there when I created everything?"
Nope, that doesn't wash for me. But I am not here to have imaginary conversations with God.
 
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Belk

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Maybe they did, several decades ago.. but not now.. and those that did purport that were not biblically backed.

Let me make certain I have your claim correct. Over time the understanding of Gods word changes and that is how it should be?
 
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Jamdoc

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Let me make certain I have your claim correct. Over time the understanding of Gods word changes and that is how it should be?

No, I'm saying that some people just don't pay attention to what the bible teaches and go along with what the world sees as right in their own eyes.
There was never a biblical justification for racism, but people had been taught outside of the bible that it was acceptable, so they followed what the world taught them, not what the bible teaches them.
Meanwhile now the world is trying to teach us to celebrate LGBT
and the bible says it's sin.
 
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Belk

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No, I'm saying that some people just don't pay attention to what the bible teaches and go along with what the world sees as right in their own eyes.
There was never a biblical justification for racism, but people had been taught outside of the bible that it was acceptable, so they followed what the world taught them, not what the bible teaches them.
Meanwhile now the world is trying to teach us to celebrate LGBT
and the bible says it's sin.
So you are just claiming they are wrong and you are right. Guess what, this is exactly the same thing they claim about you and you both have the exact same amount of authority for your claims. Ergo, as I said, you are not the arbiter of Gods commands. You are just as likely to be wrong as any other Human on the planet and it still looks like hate to me.
 
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Ceallaigh

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He means, if I may, that we are all sinners, not just those other people over there....

It's in verses 9-14 here for instance: Luke 18 NIV
We have to be like the one who beat his chest and cried "Lord have mercy on me, a sinner!"

The difference here is there's pride and celebration of sin.
 
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Ceallaigh

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I'm not aware of any church replacing Christian flags with rainbow flags. My church's worship space on the outside of the chancel has an American flag and Christian flag.

What does legitimately concern me is when the cross is replaced or obscured by an American flag.

The conflation of nationalism with religion in America is a far more dangerous and prevalent problem. One that I consider a real problem with genuine danger.

-CrytpoLutheran

This the Episcopal church in my neighborhood. It used to be a Christian flag.

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Jamdoc

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So you are just claiming they are wrong and you are right. Guess what, this is exactly the same thing they claim about you and you both have the exact same amount of authority for your claims. Ergo, as I said, you are not the arbiter of Gods commands. You are just as likely to be wrong as any other Human on the planet and it still looks like hate to me.

Except the bible outright calls Homosexuality sin.
the bible never says it's sin to do inter"racial" marriage.
 
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ximmix

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We hate the sin lifestyle. But a person can repent out of it
but being in a homosexual relationship, or transitioning to another gender, is not repenting.

Curious, have you ever repented the same sin more than once? How many times can you repent the same sin before you are considered unrepentant?
 
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Ceallaigh

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Curious, have you ever repented the same sin more than once? How many times can you repent the same sin before you are considered unrepentant?

This isn't unrepentant sin though. This is more like triumphant sin. Sin has entered the church and the church is celebrating it and praising it. It's sin that's being treated as a virtue.
 
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Jamdoc

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Curious, have you ever repented the same sin more than once? How many times can you repent the same sin before you are considered unrepentant?

That's not how it works.
Yes, Jesus says this about forgiving repeat offenses and yes I agree
Luke 17:3-4
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

We all fail, probably all of us daily, and yes, God can forgive, every single time there's a failure, do you mean it, do you repent, do you try to avoid it in the future?

Say we have 2 homosexuals, that want to come to Christ.
Okay..

Both of them are in a homosexual relationship and engage in sodomy regularly. They hear about Jesus and the Gospel and want to know Jesus and be forgiven of their sins.. great!

One of them breaks off their relationship with their boyfriend and stops engaging in the homosexual lifestyle, he regrets ever having been involved with it, knowing it's sin and doesn't want to go back to it.
However he still fails, sometimes catching himself thinking about sex with a man again, or even finding himself on a gay inappropriate content website before stopping himself thinking what am I doing here? closing the site, and praying for forgiveness. This man is in repentance, he fails sometimes but he is trying to sanctify himself and stop this sin, maybe he takes extra steps, avoiding his past friends who would guide him back into that sin, putting blockers on his web browser to keep him away from inappropriate content, seeking Godly council with his pastor and his brothers at church, maybe they can help him with accountability, etc.

The other one never breaks off his relationship, continues having sodomy, basically, he hasn't changed at all. How can you say he's repenting when he's staying in a sinful relationship, that shows willingness to continue in sin, and plans for future sins. That's not repentance.

and it's not just Homosexuality, it can be a man who is an alcoholic, seeks Jesus to get out of alcoholism, but doesn't dump all his alcohol down the drain, he keeps it in the liquor cabinet, ready to use. Is that repentance? When he keeps it available? No, that's a plan to sin again in the future.

True repentance is always going to result in lifestyle changes.
 
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ximmix

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This isn't unrepentant sin though. This is more like triumphant sin. Sin has entered the church and the church is celebrating it and praising it. It's sin that's being treated as a virtue.

Do you mean that unrepentant sin is ok but celebrated sin is not?
 
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