Eternal Security

Brightfame52 · Aug 31, 2021

Eternal security because Gods power is engaged to preserve the elect in the Faith 1 Pet 1:5

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Now if they could be lost, Gods power was made null by mans sin ! Now who wants to take that God dishonoring position ?

prophecy_uk · Sep 5, 2021

Bright: Eternal security because Gods power is engaged to preserve the elect in the Faith 1 Pet 1:5

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Now if they could be lost, Gods power was made null by mans sin ! Now who wants to take that God dishonoring position ?

Sheep are mild creatures, seeking only what the Shepherd gives, good or bad, but goats are not that way, they lead themselves so seek all they can get, but lose out ( lost) on the good that the Shepherd of the sheep could have given them, which is, the meek inherit the earth, learning the Shepherds humbling love, by seeing the Shepherd regular, or we can take the position of not talking in faith, or we take all the word of faith, to follow, or we follow nothing that teaches us good, or right, by following ourselves, our own will, and our own self seeking.

Brightfame52 · Sep 10, 2021

A true believer are saved and continue saved and endure to the end by the Grace and Power of God, not by their works, so they rejoice not in their own perseverance, but in God preserving them by His immutable Grace and Power, they have been sanctified by the Father and are being preserved in Jesus Christ Jude 1:1

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

The word preserved is in the passive voice and perfect tense. In fact they are said to be preserved in Jesus Christ prior to being called, so prior to their conversion to Faith.

Brightfame52 · Sep 10, 2021

Those who have been reconciled to God by the death of Christ are eternally secure because, its promised they shall be saved by His life Rom 5:10 and all such reconciled, its for Christ to present them Holy, and unblameable, and unreprovable in His sight Col 1:2-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

prophecy_uk · Sep 11, 2021

Brightfame: "A true believer are saved and continue saved and endure to the end by the Grace and Power of God, not by their works, so they rejoice not in their own perseverance, but in God preserving them by His immutable Grace and Power, they have been sanctified by the Father and are being preserved in Jesus Christ Jude 1:1"

Yes, and the rest of the message speaks directly against your words.

To contend for the faith, against these, crept in, who turn the grace of God into their lusciousness, this is their denial of the Lord ( BY THEIR WORKS).

Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

prophecy_uk · Sep 11, 2021

Brightfame: "Those who have been reconciled to God by the death of Christ are eternally secure because, its promised they shall be saved by His life Rom 5:10 and all such reconciled, its for Christ to present them Holy, and unblameable, and unreprovable in His sight "

Remember what is just said, by their evil works ( of lasciviousness) they deny Christ.

That against your first attempt that it is not by their works ( when it is denial by their evil works and confession then is by their good ones)

They ARE ENEMIES TO GOD BY THEIR WICKED WORKS, THEY REMAIN ENEMIES TO GOD, IF THEY DENY CHRIST THROUGH THEIR WICKED WORKS, EVEN THOUGH THEY INSIST they confess Christ and are eternally secure, it is just their word that accounts for very little against Gods testimonies ( which I know)

Col 1:2-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Brightfame52 · Sep 12, 2021

All for whom Christ died, which were Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Who also have redemption through His Blood with the forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7, they are and always have been Eternally Secured in Christ, Yes even before they become Believers, before they are even Called by the Gospel to Faith Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Before Called by the Gospel, they had been first preserved in Jesus Christ their Saviour, which preservation denotes their Eternal Security in Christ.

prophecy_uk · Sep 13, 2021

Bright: "Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Before Called buy the Gospel, they had been first preserved in Jesus Christ their Saviour, which preservation denotes their Eternal Security in Christ."

Preserved in Christ Jesus, not preserved out of Christ Jesus.

Of course the men crept in unawares, the ungodly men, who turn the grace of God into sin, which is their denial of the Lord ( they pretend to confess).

Then contending for the faith ( through this exhortation) we are put in remembrance how the Lord once saved Israel, out of the land of Egypt, but had to afterwards destroy those who believed not ( they believed then stopped believing, they did not keep preserved in the Lord)

These are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Now these ungodly who crept in, are filthy dreamers, and they defile the flesh ( turning the grace of God into self seeking sin)..

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Bright: "All for whom Christ died, which were Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

They were chosen in Christ ( to continue to be preserved in Christ not be out of Christ) by being Holy, and without blame in love.

Keeping ourselves in the love of God, by not working ill to others, and by not defiling our temple of the Holy Ghost ( or we be destroyed by God) is by hearing this exhortation, and not being as the defilers as told..

1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Jude 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

If Brightfame can agree, if we defile the flesh then we will be destroyed by the Lord, then he can acknowledge the testimonies of the just and righteous judgement's of the Lord, if he cannot he must be confirming this...

"turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord" Jesus Christ.

FutureAndAHope · Sep 13, 2021

Biblewriter said:
And this is why eternal security is a fundamental Christian doctrine. Because our security does not rest upon ourselves, or on anything we do, but upon our Lord Jesus Christ, and the sacrifice He made at Calvary. That is a firm foundation, which cannot be shaken. In comparison, all else is nothing but shifting sand.

I agree that when we have faith we are saved, but this is not unconditional, if we persist in lusts and sins we will eventually lose our salvation.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Jas 2:20-26 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

A person can be made, a partaker in the Holy Ghost, and yet fall away from Christ, to the degree that there is no returning.

Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

There are two pathways that a person can take in life, the pathway of obedience, and the pathway of sin. Obedience results in drawing nearer to God. Disobedience is blinding and draws a person away from God.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

chad kincham · Sep 13, 2021

chad kincham · Sep 13, 2021

In view of the biblical teaching that the security of the believer depends on a living relationship with Christ (John 15:6); in view of the Bible’s call to a life of holiness (Hebrews 12:14; 1 Peter 1:16); in view of the clear teaching that a man may have his part taken out of the Book of Life (Revelation 22:19); and in view of the fact that one who believes for a while can fall away (Luke 8:13); The General Council of the Assemblies of God disapproves of the unconditional security position which holds that it is impossible for a person once saved to be lost. (Bylaws, Article IX.B.1)

The Assemblies of God affirms the biblical teaching that people enter into a personal saving relationship with Christ through the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit, who draws them to repentance and faith in Christ. Jesus described this initial salvation experience as “new birth” (John 3:3–6),1 as did the apostle Peter (1 Peter 1:3). Likewise, Paul wrote, “He saved us through the washing of rebirth [palingenesias, “rebirth” or “regeneration”] and renewal by the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5), also using “new creation” for this transformative saving event (2 Corinthians 5:17).

At the time of the believer’s new birth, theologically designated “regeneration,” the Holy Spirit comes into them, bringing assurance of forgiveness of sins, spiritual renewal, and a personal relationship with God. “The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children” (Romans 8:16). This dynamic relationship with God by His Spirit, initiated and sustained through faith, undergirds the security of the believer.

The following biblical teachings sustain and guide the believer’s growing maturity and perseverance in their relationship with Christ.

Salvation is available for every person (Luke 19:10; John 3:16; Romans 10:11–13; Hebrews 2:9; 2 Peter 3:9; Revelation 22:17).
Salvation is received and assured through faith (Romans 3:28; Galatians 2:20–21; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; Hebrews 10:38; 1 Peter 1:5).
Salvation is an ongoing conflict with temptation and sin (Romans 1:32; 1 Corinthians 3:1–3, 5–8; 5:9–13; Hebrews 3:12–14; 12:1; 1 John 1:8; 3:8).
The believer’s salvation may be forfeited or abandoned by willfully turning away from Christ (John 17:12; 1 Timothy 4:1; 5:12, 15; Hebrews 6:4–6, 10:26–27, 38; 2 Peter 2:20; 1 John 5:16).

chad kincham · Sep 13, 2021

Biblewriter said:
You made many assumptions about the meanings of a nimber of scriptures, without demonstrating that they actually meant what you daid. The reason you did not demonstrate that these scriptures had this meaning was that you cannot. For they do not mean what you claim they mean.

I demonstrated that the scriptures indeed say, and very explicitly say, that those who trust in Jesus already have a life that an never end. There is simply no escape from this, because this is the actual meaning of the Greek words used in stating this. I also quoted scriptures that explicitly said that the pron=mises of God were so absolute that even sin could not cancel them.

Your answer was simply to deny it all, and to try to reason it away with scriptures that are not even about true believers.

In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul says they had heard him preach the gospel, had received it, and stand in it, and they are saved:

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved,

EXCEPT...

Paul’s next words make their salvation conditional, by warning them that though they’d heard the gospel, received it, stand in it, and ARE SAVED, that they can end up believing IN VAIN, ifthey don’t keep in mind all that he taught them:

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, IFye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have BELIEVED IN VAIN.

What was it that Paul taught them that they had to keep in memory that he had preached to them, that can affect their salvation, and cause their receiving the gospel, standing in it, and being saved, to be IN VAIN?

He taught them that he has to control and subjugate his flesh daily, lest after preaching to others, he himself would end up a CASTAWAY - adokimos in the Greek. - a reprobate (rejected by God as one that failed the test).

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Albert Barnes exegetes the text:

“The simple idea of Paul is, that he was afraid that he should be disapproved, rejected, cast off; that it would appear, after all, that he had no religion, and would then be cast away as unfit to enter into heaven”.

By subjugation of his body, Paul refers to the flesh, the fleshly desire to sin, i e, commit works of the flesh, as seen in another of Paul’s warnings to the saints, to the brethren against being DECEIVED:

Gal 5:16 This - I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told YOU in time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.

He also warned the brethren to examine themselves to see if they were still in the faith, or had become reprobate:

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Paul in fact gave warning after warning to the brethren, to be not deceived, about the consequences of living a lifestyle of sinning, such as being an adulterer, or drunkard, or thief, etc.

He warned the brethren that some of them were THIEVES because they’d defrauded their brethren, then warned the church against being deceived into thinking they could steal, or commit other serious sins, and still enter into the kingdom of heaven

1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and DEFRAUD, and that your - BRETHREN.

1Co 6:9 Know yenot that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Co 6:10 Nor THIEVES (such as those who DEFRAUD the BRETHREN) nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, SHALL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

Notice in verse 11 he states that some of the brethren used to live that way, but stopped after salvation - but we’ve already seen that some of them were ALSO living in sin by defrauding their brethren and stealing from them:

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

There’s no OSAS in Paul’s many warnings to the brethren and saints about living sinfully as believers.

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh SAINTS.

Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath ANY inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Eph 5:6 Let no man DECEIVE YOU with vain words: for because of these things cometh the WRATH of God upon the childrenof disobedience.

Eph 5:7 Be not YE therefore partakers WITH them.

1Ti 3:2 A church leader must be without fault; he must have only one wife, be sober, self-controlled, and orderly; he must welcome strangers in his home; he must be able to teach;

1Ti 3:3 he must not be a drunkard or a violent man, but gentle and peaceful; he must not love money;

1Ti 3:4 he must be able to manage his own family well and make his children obey him with all respect.

1Ti 3:5 For if a man does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of the church of God?

1Ti 3:6 He must be mature in the faith, so that he will not swell up with pride and be condemned, as the Devil was.

Brightfame52 · Sep 13, 2021

propuk

Preserved in Christ Jesus, not preserved out of Christ Jesus.

Thats exactly what was stated ! They were in Christ Jesus before they were called. They were in Christ Jesus by election and purpose before the world began 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Biblewriter · Sep 13, 2021

chad kincham said:
In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul says they had heard him preach the gospel, had received it, and stand in it, and they are saved:

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved,

EXCEPT...

Paul’s next words make their salvation conditional, by warning them that though they’d heard the gospel, received it, stand in it, and ARE SAVED, that they can end up believing IN VAIN, ifthey don’t keep in mind all that he taught them:

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, IFye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have BELIEVED IN VAIN.

What was it that Paul taught them that they had to keep in memory that he had preached to them, that can affect their salvation, and cause their receiving the gospel, standing in it, and being saved, to be IN VAIN?

He taught them that he has to control and subjugate his flesh daily, lest after preaching to others, he himself would end up a CASTAWAY - adokimos in the Greek. - a reprobate (rejected by God as one that failed the test).

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Albert Barnes exegetes the text:

“The simple idea of Paul is, that he was afraid that he should be disapproved, rejected, cast off; that it would appear, after all, that he had no religion, and would then be cast away as unfit to enter into heaven”.

By subjugation of his body, Paul refers to the flesh, the fleshly desire to sin, i e, commit works of the flesh, as seen in another of Paul’s warnings to the saints, to the brethren against being DECEIVED:

Gal 5:16 This - I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told YOU in time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.

He also warned the brethren to examine themselves to see if they were still in the faith, or had become reprobate:

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Paul in fact gave warning after warning to the brethren, to be not deceived, about the consequences of living a lifestyle of sinning, such as being an adulterer, or drunkard, or thief, etc.

He warned the brethren that some of them were THIEVES because they’d defrauded their brethren, then warned the church against being deceived into thinking they could steal, or commit other serious sins, and still enter into the kingdom of heaven

1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and DEFRAUD, and that your - BRETHREN.

1Co 6:9 Know yenot that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Co 6:10 Nor THIEVES (such as those who DEFRAUD the BRETHREN) nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, SHALL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

Notice in verse 11 he states that some of the brethren used to live that way, but stopped after salvation - but we’ve already seen that some of them were ALSO living in sin by defrauding their brethren and stealing from them:

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

There’s no OSAS in Paul’s many warnings to the brethren and saints about living sinfully as believers.

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh SAINTS.

Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath ANY inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Eph 5:6 Let no man DECEIVE YOU with vain words: for because of these things cometh the WRATH of God upon the childrenof disobedience.

Eph 5:7 Be not YE therefore partakers WITH them.

1Ti 3:2 A church leader must be without fault; he must have only one wife, be sober, self-controlled, and orderly; he must welcome strangers in his home; he must be able to teach;

1Ti 3:3 he must not be a drunkard or a violent man, but gentle and peaceful; he must not love money;

1Ti 3:4 he must be able to manage his own family well and make his children obey him with all respect.

1Ti 3:5 For if a man does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of the church of God?

1Ti 3:6 He must be mature in the faith, so that he will not swell up with pride and be condemned, as the Devil was.

The OP was not about the stand of any denominational group. It was about what the scriptures explicitly say in plain words.

The scriptures EXPLICITLY say that those who have believed in Christ will never be lost. And they just as EXPLICITLY say that those who fall away will most certainly be lost. And until you understand how BOTH of these statements are COMPLETELY true, you had best hold your tongue (or in this case, your posts) on the subject.

There are a number of subjects in the Bible that have a number of passages that state one truth, and a number of other passages that state a different truth that seems to contradict the first truth. But then this happens, there is always a third set of passages that show how BOTH of these truths can be COMPLETELY true, even though they SEM to be contradictory.

In this case two scriptures that show how Both of these concepts can be COMPLELY true are:

1: "for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day." (2 Timothy 1:12) So the keeping is done ny the Lord, not by ourselves.

2: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us." (1 John 2:19) This scripture shows that those who fall away are only proving that they were never really "of us," that is, that they were never REAL believers.

For there is such a thing as a belief that is nothing more than a mental assent to the accuracy of a set of statements, but does not involve trust in the one these statements are about. Such a belief involves neither faith nor love, and it is "in vain."

Brightfame52 · Sep 13, 2021

chad kin

In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul says they had heard him preach the gospel, had received it, and stand in it, and they are saved:

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved,

EXCEPT...

Paul’s next words make their salvation conditional, by warning them that though they’d heard the gospel, received it, stand in it, and ARE SAVED, that they can end up believing IN VAIN, ifthey don’t keep in mind all that he taught them:

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, IFye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have BELIEVED IN VAIN.

What was it that Paul taught them that they had to keep in memory that he had preached to them, that can affect their salvation, and cause their receiving the gospel, standing in it, and being saved, to be IN VAIN?

In this context, the believing in vain has to do with if Christ hasnt really rose from the dead as some apparently were teaching there at Corinth. If Christ didnt rise from the dead, then our faith would be vain, and believers would still be in their sins. See Christs resurrection vindicated that God accepted His sacrifice for their sins. 1 Cor 15:13-18

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

So that's the issue and context, its not an issue of eternal security, but if Christ really rose from the dead.

prophecy_uk · Sep 14, 2021

Biblewriter: " The scriptures EXPLICITLY say that those who have believed in Christ will never be lost. And they just as EXPLICITLY say that those who fall away will most certainly be lost.

There are a number of subjects in the Bible that have a number of passages that state one truth, and a number of other passages that state a different truth that seems to contradict the first truth. But then this happens, there is always a third set of passages that show how BOTH of these truths can be COMPLETELY true, even though they SEM to be contradictory."

"In this case two scriptures that show how Both of these concepts can be COMPLELY true are:

1: "for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day." (2 Timothy 1:12) So the keeping is done ny the Lord, not by ourselves.

2: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us." (1 John 2:19) This scripture shows that those who fall away are only proving that they were never really "of us," that is, that they were never REAL believers."

Biblewriter, look again, and now magically, there is one statement, and one truth, not two concepts at all, but only one from these two following chapters.

Apostle Paul was appointed ( ordained by the Holy Spirit) to be a teacher of the Gentiles ( the Apostle to the Gentiles)

Paul then suffering, in the sufferings of Christ, ( which humble the soul) has believed ( was given to believe by Christ/enabled) that God keeps what Apostle Paul had committed unto Christ ( all the suffering and example of Christ in Apostle Paul)

Paul exhorts us then, to hold fast the word ( of faith in Christ) which Paul preached to us, in faith and love, which we would also find in Christ Jesus.

To Timothy, Paul exhorts him to keep the faith by the Holy Ghost which dwells in Paul and in Timothy.

All in Asia turned away from Apostle Paul's preaching of the cross, ( they did not hold fast but fell)..

2 Timothy 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

All that are in that present evil world, ( of whom all in Asia turned to) do the will of the flesh, the will of man. Only those who do the will of the Father ( to hold fast the word of faith and not do the will of man, through fear of God, in His Spirit of fear and Spirit of faith) abide forever.

Many antichrists oppose that sound word, they cannot continue in the word ( to hold fast the word) to manifest that they are not of us ( of the ones who keep the word of faith)..

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

prophecy_uk · Sep 14, 2021

Brightfame: "So that's the issue and context, its not an issue of eternal security, but if Christ really rose from the dead."

All is issue of eternal security/salvation. The scriptures are what we believe in to be saved, or unsaved and die. Pick your nose instead of the verses. The verses continue to state how we die or live by Gods word, in this and every chapter of the Holy scriptures.

Now Christ is risen, ( faith not in vain but for life)

By man, came death, now by man comes life. (Son of man)

All in Christ shall be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

The Apostles for the hope of eternal life, stand in trouble all of the time, they die daily.

Eternal security then is against that, and then they might as well eat and drink and die ( without fearing all of the words of the Lords testimonies to stop contradicting and blaspheming)

But, against those deceivers, we know their evil communications corrupt the good manners, God teaches us through Christ in righteousness, equity and just judgment.

Here is the teaching again then, to awake ( from the dead) to righteousness and to sin not, this is the knowledge of Christ for salvation, and shame is on those who try to corruptly resist it to their own destruction..

! Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

prophecy_uk · Sep 14, 2021

Chad: "At the time of the believer’s new birth, theologically designated “regeneration,” the Holy Spirit comes into them, bringing assurance of forgiveness of sins, spiritual renewal, and a personal relationship with God. “The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children” (Romans 8:16). This dynamic relationship with God by His Spirit, initiated and sustained through faith, undergirds the security of the believer.

The following biblical teachings sustain and guide the believer’s growing maturity and perseverance in their relationship with Christ.

Salvation is available for every person (Luke 19:10; John 3:16;"

Pay attention Chad.

The Son of man came to seek and to save that which was lost. Sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, as Zacchaeus was also a son of Abraham, and a publican. Israel considered the Son of man to be doing wrong to their understanding ( He is confounding their wisdom)..

Luke 19:2 And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.

Luke 19:7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

Luke 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Jesus confirmed to the Gentile woman, He is sent to the lost sheep of Israel.

The Gentile woman, in great faith ( given into her by Christ), as this same faith was not in all Israel, as seen in the Gentile centurion, who obeyed without question ( when that faith is given into anyone by the Lord) reveals how no such faith was in all the lost sheep of the house of Israel, because the dogs ( Gentile believers) eat the crumbs without being fussy, as Israel we see murmured at Christ ( as it is testified Israel died in the wilderness for murmuring)

Now, the children, ( of Israel) it is said, will be cast into outer darkness, but many others ( not of Israel) would sit with Abraham in the Kingdom of God..

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

Matthew 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Now, the parables reveal who does the will of their Father ( of God) and it is not the highly esteemed in society, it is the despised, the rest are sent away, as Gods words never had any place in them.

Matthew 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

Brightfame52 · Sep 14, 2021

Eternally secured even as unbelievers !

Eternally secured even as unbelievers ! Whom am I speaking of ? Why it pertaineth to Gods Elect, men and women for whom Christ died. Now understand something which the scripture teaches, that all for whom Christ died [ the offering of Himself] by that He hath perfected them forever Heb 10:10-14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Who are the them that are sanctified ? Why its them He died for in Vs 10

Now this being perfected forever doeth entail the purging away of their sins and the guilt and punishment due ! The writer of Hebrews earlier wrote of those Christ died for these words Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

The word purged here the greek word katharismos and means:

cleansing, purifying, purification, literal, ceremonial, or moral; met: expiation.

a cleansing from the guilt of sins

There's not one sin of theirs not satisfied for, hence they are perfected forever. Not even the sin of unbelief is held against them. How do we know this ? Its simple, because by His death they are reconciled to God even while being enemies/unbelievers ! Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Enemies and Unbelievers are the same. Remember what Jesus called the unbelieving jews here ? Lk 19:14

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

Now if we understand the parable here its speaking about the jews, the nation of israel. Then later He says of them same ones, the citizens of that nation which would not have Him to reign over them these words Vs 27

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

They were enemies broken of in unbelief Rom 11:20,28

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

But if one is an enemy in unbelief deserving of being cut off, and yet Christ died for them, they are reconciled to God ! Not only that, they are perfected forever !

prophecy_uk · Sep 15, 2021

Bright: "Eternally secured even as unbelievers"

You know, your name reminds me of this..

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Brightfame: "Who are the them that are sanctified ? Why its them He died for in Vs 10

Now this being perfected forever doeth entail the purging away of their sins and the guilt and punishment due "

You are speaking of Hebrews 10, in there we are reminded of the new covenant, God will pout His laws into our hearts and write them in our minds.

Then the sins are remembered no more ( by God or by us)

The new way is living, by the living blood of Jesus, and this clean pure blood, ( gives man a good conscience) draws us near to God, ( as the previous impure way of man in sins with a hard hearted conscience) died in sins and could not draw anywhere near God in that way, as now, our HEARTS ARE SPRINKLED FROM THAT PREVIOUS EVIL CONSCIENCE, and our bodies also, washed with pure water ( clean through the word of Christ/living words and Spirit) to hold fast without wavering, in the faith of Christ..

Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

That all confirms the covenant the Lord made with us, TO SPRINKLE CLEAN WATER UPON US, TO BE CLEAN FROM ALL OUR FILTHINESS.

To cleanse us from all idols ( which they worshipped in an evil conscience)

To give them ( His sheep) the new soft heart of flesh, and take away the stony heart ( of unbelief in righteousness) to give the Holy Spirit which causes man to walk in the righteous statutes of the Lord, to keep His judgments AND DO THEM..

Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Brightfame: "There's not one sin of theirs not satisfied for, hence they are perfected forever. Not even the sin of unbelief is held against them. How do we know this ? Its simple, because by His death they are reconciled to God even while being enemies/unbelievers ! Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."

Unbelief is an evil conscience, it does not have to be held against them, as the heart of unbelief is gone away, also the heart of an evil conscience is gone..

Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Brightfame: "28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes."

Brightfame: "But if one is an enemy in unbelief deserving of being cut off, and yet Christ died for them, they are reconciled to God ! Not only that, they are perfected forever "

Israel was broken off ( cut off) by being prideful.

Now, if we be highminded in the same evil way, we be cut of too.

That is the goodness and severity of God ( He has mercy on whom He will, softens their heart, to a purified conscience, to believe unto the righteousness of Christ, and whom he wills He hardens, their hearts, to remain in an evil conscience, and an evil heart of unbelief)

So Israel could be restored, if they were given to believe, but God made Israel enemies ( to slay the Lord God) to restore us to the beloved for election of our souls..

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

If you did not get the meaning yet, it is here again:

2 Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

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