Biden Drops the Hammer on Unvaccinated

mark46 · Sep 11, 2021

Albion said:
Every nibble that takes a bite out of our Constitutional guarantees of liberty comes equipped with some alibi or airy rationalization. I believe I've made the point before.

Why is it that the Nuremberg Laws keep coming to mind? Oh, the Jews think they should have the right to marry Germans, do they? But that would pollute the genes of future German members of society, so this is a policy that's all for the good. So they want to hire females under age 45 to work in their homes? The government has an obligation, don't you now, to protect young German women from sexual predators! And they don't like having to display the yellow Star of David patch on their coats so the public can know who they're dealing with? What nerve!
ETC> ETC>

Finally. It sometimes takes a long time for those on the right to equate a federal regulation to the Holocaust. I recall such a comment from a GA legislator last month with regard to the investigation of the January 6th attack on the federal government.

It is the federal government who for 200 years has fought for the rights of its citizens to have liberties not restricted by race, religion, or national origin. It is those who CURRENTLY oppose that federal government that have fought every effort to protect those rights.
============
I have said that we should stop this discussion. Of course, I have responded to each of your posts, so I am to blame. I have learned the method for stopping this wasted of time. I will put you on ignore for a couple of months. There are plenty of others with whom to have discussions.

We have reached our limit. I should have done this sooner. However, now it is straightforward. I have no need to have discussions with those who compare the implementation of federal rules with the Holocaust.
.

Albion · Sep 11, 2021

mark46 said:
Finally. It sometimes takes a long time for those on the right to equate a federal regulation to the Holocaust.

No one here has done that, so I must assume that you haven't 'heard' much of what I've been trying to get across, and that there's no point in continuing this exchange.
:wave:

mark46 · Sep 11, 2021

Albion said:
not on topic.

You make your own rules with regard to what's on topic.

Somehow it is on topic to compare the current rules to the Holocaust. I pointed out that this comparison was made last month by those objecting to the investigation of events on Jan 6th.

And you have decided that I am off-topic. Fine. I will withdraw from responding to any of your posts here until at least after Thanksgiving. Bye now.

iluvatar5150 · Sep 11, 2021

Aldebaran said:
They just acquired the largest one in the UK. China's Wingtech to buy biggest UK chip plant amid global crunch

According to that article the company that did the buying hd revenues of $8 billion, while the company they bought had revenues of only $43 million. That’s not going to move the market share needle much.

Pommer · Sep 11, 2021

Lifelong_sinner said:
According to wikipedia, since 1789, congress alone has enacted 30,000 laws. Who in their right minds thinks we need that many laws??

Yeah, obsolete laws while “still on the books”, are simply not enforced. The DOJ doesn’t try to keep up on if an 1812 law (say), is still “in-effect”.

That’d be silly.
And Congress is obviously busy making even more laws, so rescinding the unused ones would just be a waste of time.

That’s how governments function.

Those who fear “what the government is doing” right now, think that all of a sudden, after years of incompetence and ineptitude, the government is suddenly going to get real good at suppressing people’s rights.

Schrodinger’s Government

Lifelong_sinner · Sep 11, 2021

Pommer said:
Yeah, obsolete laws while “still on the books”, are simply not enforced. The DOJ doesn’t try to keep up on if an 1812 law (say), is still “in-effect”.

That’d be silly.
And Congress is obviously busy making even more laws, so rescinding the unused ones would just be a waste of time.

That’s how governments function.

Those who fear “what the government is doing” right now, think that all of a sudden, after years of incompetence and ineptitude, the government is suddenly going to get real good at suppressing people’s rights.

Schrodinger’s Government

this is the most backwards comment about govt yet. If govt isnt going to enforce a law, then why not rescind it??? The govt that governs least, governs best. Also, why does big govt see a need to continuously keep making new laws??

at this point, what good is our govt other than suppressing our rights??? They sure arent doing what they are supposed to be doing like guarding our borders, protecting our rights from big govt?? Name something useful our govt has done in the last 50 yrs…

Pommer · Sep 11, 2021

Lifelong_sinner said:
Also, why does big govt see a need to continuously keep making new laws??

Things change.
But, (as a sidebar), most bills that are passed aren’t Laws (as such), but are proclamations and other communications with the other sections of our Government, (there’s a lot).

The laws aren’t formally rescinded because, who knows?, it might be needed (if only the framework) again in the future?
If it’s not needed, we don’t act on it.

mark46 · Sep 11, 2021

Lifelong_sinner said:
. Name something useful our govt has done in the last 50 yrs…

This is certainly one the most ill informed statement of the year.

Let's start with the disaster relief and the COVID personnel sent upon the request of the states. We might add the COVID relief laws passed in 2020, as well as the support for the development of treatments and vaccines. You asked for 50 years. We might start with the last two.

Lifelong_sinner · Sep 11, 2021

Pommer said:
Things change.
But, (as a sidebar), most bills that are passed aren’t Laws (as such), but are proclamations and other communications with the other sections of our Government, (there’s a lot).

The laws aren’t formally rescinded because, who knows?, it might be needed (if only the framework) again in the future?
If it’s not needed, we don’t act on it.

things change?? Newsflash!! Technology doesnt change what our rights are. The times may change, but not our rights.

Lifelong_sinner · Sep 11, 2021

mark46 said:
This is certainly one the most ill informed statement of the year.

Let's start with the disaster relief and the COVID personnel sent upon the request of the states. We might add the COVID relief laws passed in 2020, as well as the support for the development of treatments and vaccines. You asked for 50 years. We might start with the last two.

unfortunately, because of rules on this forum being what they are, i cant respond to your response about covid stuff. But if the covid stuff is all you can find, my original question still stands… name something useful our govt has done in the last 50 yrs.

JSRG · Sep 12, 2021

Lifelong_sinner said:
how many laws? Any more than is necessary. According to wikipedia, since 1789, congress alone has enacted 30,000 laws. Who in their right minds thinks we need that many laws?? And thats just congress, thats not including any laws from the executive branch.

Your claim is that the number of laws passed by congress is somehow a measure of tyranny. There are major problems with this.

First, throwing out a number without any context means nothing. Is that a particularly large number of acts for a country to pass?

But even beyond that, your claim is rather silly to begin with. First, you claim there were 30,000 laws. Actually, there were 30,000 acts of congress. While I suppose all of these are technically laws, many are not exactly what someone would think of as a law. Let's take a look at some of the acts from the 116th US Congress (Jan 2019 to Jan 2021, the most recently completed congress):
List of acts of the 116th United States Congress - Wikipedia

When one looks at them, you'll discover that a huge number of these are extremely minor things, and can hardly even be considered a law. About 1/6 of these are just giving names to federal facilities, for crying out loud. One of them is just giving someone the rank of colonel in the army. Others are extending the length of existing government programs (not something someone would consider law) or amending an existing law (which isn't setting up a new law). Even the bona fide new laws are often things that don't provide even the tiniest hint of any kind of real government tyranny--unless someone is prepared to explain why making sure to pay the salaries of federal workers who continued working without pay during the temporary government shutdown in 2019 (Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019, the first act passed by this congress) is somehow the government being tyrannical.

The number of "laws" (or rather, acts of congress) passed is basically useless as any kind of metric for determining the amount of government control.

Ken-1122 · Sep 12, 2021

iluvatar5150 said:
Covid Live Updates: Biden Unveils Vaccine Mandate Plan Covering Two-Thirds of U.S. Workers

When is he gonna force those accepting welfare and other government programs to get vaccinated?

Danthemailman · Sep 12, 2021

Ken-1122 said:
When is he gonna force those accepting welfare and other government programs to get vaccinated?

Also, what about illegal immigrants?

Biden's vaccination mandate doesn't include illegal immigrants

Ken-1122 · Sep 12, 2021

Clizby WampusCat said:
I am vaccinated because I believe it is the right thing to do for myself after my research. I would never condone mandating a vaccine to anyone. That should be a personal choice. If I get Covid being vaccinated there is a great possibility I will not need to be hospitalized, if someone non vaccinated gets Covid that possibility is greatly increased. So it seems to me that the unvaccinated are only really harming themselves anyway.

If the non vaccinated gets Covid, and stayed home and to recover or die, I’d be okay with that; but they don’t do that, they wanna go to the hospital to try to get well, and they are taking away beds from people who are sick and injured due to no fault of their own. The Hospitals are being over run due to all of these people who refuse to take the vaccine and this hurts all of us. The unvaccinated are not just hurting themselves, they’re hurting us all.

Ken-1122 · Sep 12, 2021

Danthemailman said:
Also, what about illegal immigrants?

Biden's vaccination mandate doesn't include illegal immigrants

If he would just enforce current immigration laws; problem solved.

Lifelong_sinner · Sep 12, 2021

JSRG said:
Your claim is that the number of laws passed by congress is somehow a measure of tyranny. There are major problems with this.

First, throwing out a number without any context means nothing. Is that a particularly large number of acts for a country to pass?

But even beyond that, your claim is rather silly to begin with. First, you claim there were 30,000 laws. Actually, there were 30,000 acts of congress. While I suppose all of these are technically laws, many are not exactly what someone would think of as a law. Let's take a look at some of the acts from the 116th US Congress (Jan 2019 to Jan 2021, the most recently completed congress):
List of acts of the 116th United States Congress - Wikipedia

When one looks at them, you'll discover that a huge number of these are extremely minor things, and can hardly even be considered a law. About 1/6 of these are just giving names to federal facilities, for crying out loud. One of them is just giving someone the rank of colonel in the army. Others are extending the length of existing government programs (not something someone would consider law) or amending an existing law (which isn't setting up a new law). Even the bona fide new laws are often things that don't provide even the tiniest hint of any kind of real government tyranny--unless someone is prepared to explain why making sure to pay the salaries of federal workers who continued working without pay during the temporary government shutdown in 2019 (Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019, the first act passed by this congress) is somehow the government being tyrannical.

The number of "laws" (or rather, acts of congress) passed is basically useless as any kind of metric for determining the amount of government control.

Lets cut that number in half. Do you really believe we need 15,000 laws?? The issue here is beyond what the constitution says, there arent many more laws really needed. The constitution is to stop big govt, yet any new law passed today is designed to stop us. Thats tyranny in a nutshell. Letting the govt do what it says we cant do.

iluvatar5150 · Sep 12, 2021

Ana the Ist said:
Uhhh... the economy always accommodates more money.

The easiest way is inflation...devaluing the dollar.

Ok, fine. But the dollar hasn't devalued - at least not since Biden took office.

United States Dollar | 1971-2021 Data | 2022-2023 Forecast | Quote | Chart

Hammster said:
It’s tyrannical because it’s not the government’s business to be concerned about how people take care of themselves.

But it is the government's business to be concerned with the effects that one person's actions have on another. Even Libertarians believe that.

Ken-1122 said:
When is he gonna force those accepting welfare and other government programs to get vaccinated?

I don't know. Does he have the power to do that?

mark46 · Sep 12, 2021

Lifelong_sinner said:
unfortunately, because of rules on this forum being what they are, i cant respond to your response about covid stuff. But if the covid stuff is all you can find, my original question still stands… name something useful our govt has done in the last 50 yrs.

I don't think that there is a lot of use discussing our very, very different standards of what laws are good or effective. That cannot be done without some common ground.

But, since you asked, I'll give three examples that have been greatly important to our quality of life
1) the formation of OSHA
2) the formation of the EPA
3) Medicare Part D (drug coverage for seniors)

There are many hundreds more examples. I would note that each of these was a bi-partisan effort led a Republican president.

pitabread · Sep 12, 2021

Lifelong_sinner said:
how many laws? Any more than is necessary.

How many are necessary?

as far as other countries being more free, i’ve found that most people think guaranteed safety by govt is equal to freedom. Look at how many people on this forum are demanding vaccine requirements all in the name of safety over freedom. Most people would be scared if everyone had as much freedom as our Founders did.

The indices in question aren't strictly based on safety.

For example, if you look at the Human Freedom Index as published by the Fraser Institute, they use 76 different criteria based on the following areas:

Rule of Law
Security and Safety
Movement
Religion
Association, Assembly, and Civil Society
Expression and Information
Identity and Relationships
Size of Government
Legal System and Property Rights
Access to Sound Money
Freedom to Trade Internationally
Regulation of Credit, Labor, and Business

The U.S. ranks 17th overall (tied with the U.K.). Where they tend to score lower is in the rule of law, legal system and property rights, and size of government categories: https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2021-03/human-freedom-index-2020-country-profiles.pdf

They also rank lower in Religious Freedom than a number of other countries, including Canada and various European countries.

Hammster · Sep 12, 2021

iluvatar5150 said:
But it is the government's business to be concerned with the effects that one person's actions have on an

But not by controlling each and every action. The government does so by bearing the sword and punishing the evil. It’s not evil to not be vaccinated.

Biden Drops the Hammer on Unvaccinated

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