The Sabbath, Before and After

Nitsud · Sep 10, 2021

"Hint: The root is שבת"

שבת means rest. וישבת 'vayashabbath' - and he rested

Cribstyl · Sep 11, 2021

HARK! said:
It was from the beginning.

I pulled this word from Gen 2:2 וישבת

Can you tell me what it means?

Hint: The root is שבת

וַיִּשְׁבֹּת is the inflected verb "rest-ed"
שָׁבַת is the root verb "rest"
What did you think it's saying?
שַׁבָּת 'Sabbath' is a noun. (The marks under and pronunciation is different from 'rest'. Sabbath is weekly resting given to man.) Sabbath is a sign, God's rest is the real thing.

So your saying that the Shabbat was created for the double portion, not the other way around? You'll have to have to point out the double portion in the seven days of creation.

If you repost what I said, you wouldn't be misquoting me. I sense confusion because we both know that work comes before resting.

I'm elated that you are coming to this understanding.

The questions is where are your facts?

You are incorrect:

JUBILEES 2
Mosheh Is Given the complete history from Creation
1 And the malak of the presence spoke to Mosheh according to the word of
YAHWEH, saying: Write the complete history of the creation, how in six days
YAHWEH ALMIGHTY finished all His works and all that He created, and kept
Shabbat on the seventh day and hallowed it for all ages, and appointed it as a
sign for all His works.
2 For on the first day He created the heavens which are above and the earth
and the waters and all the spirits which serve before him -the malakim of the
presence, and the malakim of sanctification, and the malakim [of the spirit of fire
and the malakim] of the spirit of the winds, and the malakim of the spirit of the
clouds, and of darkness, and of snow and of hail and of hoar frost, and the
malakim of the voices and of the thunder and of the lightning, and the malakim
of the spirits of cold and of heat, and of winter and of spring and of autumn and
of summer and of all the spirits of his creatures which are in the heavens and on
the earth, (He created) the abysses and the darkness, eventide (and night), and
the light, dawn and day, which He has prepared in the knowledge of HIS heart.
3 And thereupon we saw His works, and praised Him, and lauded before Him
on account of all His works; for seven great works did He create on the first day.
4 And on the second day He created the firmament in the midst of the waters,
and the waters were divided on that day -half of them went up above and half of
them went down below the firmament (that was) in the midst over the face of
the whole earth. And this was the only work YAHWEH created on the second
day.
5 And on the third day He commanded the waters to pass from off the face of
the whole earth into one place, and the dry land to appear.
6 And the waters did so as He commanded them, and they retired from off the
face of the earth into one place outside of this firmament, and the dry land
appeared.
7 And on that day He created for them all the seas according to their separate
gathering-places, and all the rivers, and the gatherings of the waters in the
mountains and on all the earth, and all the lakes, and all the dew of the earth,
and the seed which is sown, and all sprouting things, and fruit-bearing trees, and
trees of the wood, and the garden of Eden, in Eden and all. These four great
works YAHWEH created on the third day.
8 And on the fourth day He created the sun and the moon and the stars, and
set them in the firmament of the heaven, to give light upon all the earth, and to
rule over the day and the night, and divide the light from the darkness.
9 And YAHWEH appointed the sun to be a great sign on the earth for days and
for Shabbats and for months and for feasts and for years and for Shabbats of
years and for jubilees and for all seasons of the years.
10 And it divides the light from the darkness and for prosperity, that all things
may prosper which shoot and grow on the earth. These three kinds He made on
the fourth day.
11 And on the fifth day He created great sea monsters in the depths of the
waters, for these were the first things of flesh that were created by his hands,
the fish and everything that moves in the waters, and everything that flies, the
birds and all their kind.12 And the sun rose above them to prosper them, and above everything that
was on the earth, everything that shoots out of the earth, and all fruit-bearing
trees, and all flesh. These three kinds He created on the fifth day.
13 And on the sixth day He created all the animals of the earth, and all cattle,
and everything that moves on the earth.
14 And after all this He created man, a man and a woman created He them,
and gave him dominion over all that is upon the earth, and in the seas, and over
everything that flies, and over beasts and over cattle, and over everything that
moves on the earth, and over the whole earth, and over all this He gave him
dominion.
15 And these four kinds He created on the sixth day. And there were
altogether two and twenty kinds.
16 And He finished all his work on the sixth day -all that is in the heavens and
on the earth, and in the seas and in the abysses, and in the light and in the
darkness, and in everything.
17 And He gave us a great sign, the Shabbat day, that we should work six
days, but keep Shabbat on the seventh day from all work.
18 And all the malakim of the presence, and all the malakim of sanctification,
these two great classes -He has bidden us to keep the Shabbat with Him in
heaven and on earth

You say I'm incorrect about when manna was first given. Then you post from a book that is banned from the bible. Obviously your bible has more books than mine.

YHWH finished his work in 6 days. He expects the same from his children.

Too many rabbit holes for 1 post Hark, and you should know better.

I already pointed out that the book of Jubilees refutes that claim. Do you really believe that Adam was working in the garden, in the presence of YHWH, who was resting?

Do you really believe that YHWH would allow Adam to practice lawlessness in his presence?

How did Abraham know the law?

(CLV) Gn 15:6
Now Abram believed in Elohim, and He reckoned it to him for righteousness

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

Something to pray about.

Clearly the Torah was given before Sinai. Abraham obeyed it; and YHWH was about to exterminate those Goyim who were dancing around the golden idol as YHWH was writing it down for them.

Just because the Goyim weren't familiar with the Torah, doesn't mean that everyone who preceded their coming to the truth was ignorant; anymore than as Paul brought the Goyim to the Torah, doesn't negate the fact that Yahshua already knew the truth.

It is reasoned in error that Abraham had the law because countless scriptures the makes it clear that Moses gave them the law. Abraham did obey God by leaving his father house. The book Jubilee says Abraham burned down his father's temple before he left. Jubilee also says that Seth mated with angels to have children.
Abraham did keep God's charge by being ready to sacrifice Isaac.
Abraham did keep the law of circumcision and other commands for his people to leave Sodom and arrive where God led them.

Don't take it so hard.

I said I was sorry because followers of Christ are to love one another not argue consistently.

HARK! · Sep 11, 2021

Cribstyl said:
וַיִּשְׁבֹּת is the inflected verb "rest-ed"

You say that it's a inflected verb. I say that it expresses a thought. Can you tell me the tense?

Cribstyl said:
שָׁבַת is the root verb "rest"

"Stop" would be a more accurate definition of Shabbat.

Cribstyl said:
שַׁבָּת 'Sabbath' is a noun.

Stop can be expressed as either a verb or a noun depending on the context. When we stop for the seventh day; we make a stop for YHWH.

Cribstyl said:
(The marks under and pronunciation is different from 'rest'. Sabbath is weekly resting given to man.)

Those marks are called niqqud. They are not present, nor do they reflect the pronunciation of ancient Hebrew. Hebrew is an evolving language; and it had already been infused with foreign languages when the niqqud were added in the Middle Ages. Your argument is void.

Cribstyl said:
Sabbath is a sign, God's rest is the real thing.

Hebrews 4 provides us with insight into what I suspect you are eluding to. I would encourage you to study it.

That said, I won't entertain the notion that when YHWH shabbat on the seventh day, and thereby is making the seventh day kadosh, that it's not the real thing.

HARK! · Sep 11, 2021

Cribstyl said:
If you repost what I said, you wouldn't be misquoting me. I sense confusion because we both know that work comes before resting.

So you'll concede that the double portion was created for Shabbat?

HARK! · Sep 11, 2021

Cribstyl said:
You say I'm incorrect about when manna was first given. Then you post from a book that is banned from the bible. Obviously your bible has more books than mine.

I believe that the Catholic Church had no authority to dismiss Torah from YHWH's word. You can accept what Yahshua, his disciples, and the early assembly of Yahshua taught as scripture; or reject it.

I choose to embrace the scripture that YHWH charged the rightful Zadok Priesthood to preserve.

You can find more on this subject here: MJ Only - Jubilees is Torah According to 4Q266

HARK! · Sep 11, 2021

Cribstyl said:
Too many rabbit holes for 1 post Hark, and you should know better.

Rabbit holes?

HARK! · Sep 11, 2021

Cribstyl said:
It is reasoned in error that Abraham had the law because countless scriptures the makes it clear that Moses gave them the law.

Moses didn't give Abraham the law. There are numerous examples of the law being before Abraham.

Yahshua said he was before Abraham. Yahshua was YHWH's word in the flesh. YHWH's word is a reflection of his nature. YHWH doesn't change; nor does his word.

You might gain some insight from this collection of scripture: The Way, The Truth, The Life, The Light, The Word

Two days ago I gave a man a dollar. That doesn't negate all of the dollars I had given to others before that day.

HARK! · Sep 11, 2021

Cribstyl said:
I said I was sorry because followers of Christ are to love one another not argue consistently.

I ask YHWH to give me the strength to remember to be thankful for my detractors, for the Anomians, and even the Marcionists, that YHWH sets before me.

They unwittingly create a platform to proclaim the truth for all of those who love the truth.

All to our heavenly father's esteem.

Cribstyl · Sep 12, 2021

HARK! said:
I ask YHWH to give me the strength to remember to be thankful for my detractors, for the Anomians, and even the Marcionists, that YHWH sets before me.

They unwittingly create a platform to proclaim the truth for all of those who love the truth.

All to our heavenly father's esteem.

I dont understand what you're saying but truth does matter.

Sorry.

Cribstyl · Sep 12, 2021

HARK! said:
Moses didn't give Abraham the law. There are numerous examples of the law being before Abraham.

The fact is Hark: being created in the image of God is the mark we miss when we sin. The The scripture about the flood show us that men fell from that image and began to do what was right in their own eyes.
It is falsely reasoned that Sin needs a law to break. Your trek to prove a law should come from Genesis.
Using a partial quote from 1John 3:4 as the definition of sin is a con job.
Before sending the flood, God did not say "they broke my law" because he did not give the ten yet. God's anger was in full display. He said that He hated that He made man. If you can't show clear scriptures of a law given before the flood you should pray about your understanding. I must admit, I have an attitude and some anger is towards those manipulating the word of God.
Starting with Noah we find that God did add a law to His covenant with Noah.
God's covenant contains His requirements of men.

Yahshua said he was before Abraham. Yahshua was YHWH's word in the flesh. YHWH's word is a reflection of his nature. YHWH doesn't change; nor does his word.

You just said 6 different statements, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. The fact is the bible shows that God's covenants are His commandments for certain generations. Gen 12 is where bible history slows down because God chose Abraham.

God bless

HARK! · Sep 12, 2021

Cribstyl said:
The fact is Hark: being created in the image of God is the mark we miss when we sin. The The scripture about the flood show us that men fell from that image and began to do what was right in their own eyes.
It is falsely reasoned that Sin needs a law to break. Your trek to prove a law should come from Genesis.
Using a partial quote from 1John 3:4 as the definition of sin is a con job.
Before sending the flood, God did not say "they broke my law" because he did not give the ten yet. God's anger was in full display. He said that He hated that He made man. If you can't show clear scriptures of a law given before the flood you should pray about your understanding. I must admit, I have an attitude and some anger is towards those manipulating the word of God.
Starting with Noah we find that God did add a law to His covenant with Noah.
God's covenant contains His requirements of men.

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

Law before Moses?

(CLV) Gn 4:3
And it came to be at the end of a year's days that Cain brought an approach present to Yahweh from the fruit of the ground.

A mincha? Where did Cain come up with that idea?

(CLV) Gn 4:4
As for Abel however, he brought some firstlings of his flock and their fat portions. And Yahweh gave heed to Abel and his approach present.

The firstborn? How did Abel come up with that idea?

Does YHWH model his Torah after man's ideas?

(CLV) Gn 4:7
If you had done what is well, would you not lift up your face? But since you have not done well, at the portal there is a sin offering, a recliner; And for you is restoration in his sacrifice; + You are ruling over him.

Sin? If sin is transgression of the Torah; and the Torah was not given; how could the Torah be transgressed? A sin offering? Please explain.

(CLV) Gn 4:11
Now you are cursed, away from the ground which has opened wide its mouth to take your brother's blood from your hand.

Wait! What? Cain was cursed for a law that wasn't given? Does YHWH hold us acountable for that which we do not know? If Cain didn't know that he had transgressed the Torah; why wasn't he up front with YHWH with his brother's whereabouts?

Clearly the Torah was given before Moses. YHWH repeated the command not to murder to Noah.

(CLV) Gn 9:6
Whoever sheds the blood of a human, by a human his blood shall be shed; for in the image of Elohim He has made humanity.

Why?

In the image of Elohim He has made humanity...

When do you suppose that YHWH made man in his image? Do you suppose that it is in the image of YHWH, to violate his Torah?

Speaking of Noah:

CLV) Gn 8:20
Then Noah built an altar to Yahweh; he took some of every clean domestic beast and some of every clean flyer and offered up ascent offerings on the altar.

Noah new the clean animals and offered an olah before Moses was given the Torah?

How can this be?

(CLV) Gn 20:3
But Elohim came to Abimelech in a dream by night and said to him: Behold, you are to die on account of the woman whom you have taken, for she is the spouse of a possessor.

(CLV) Gn 20:4
Now Abimelech, he had not gone near her, and he said: My Lord, are You going to kill even an unknowing and righteous nation?

How did even this heathen know, that adultery was unrighteous, before Moses?

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

(CLV) Gn 20:6
The One, Elohim, replied to him in the dream: I too know that you have done this in the sincerity of your heart, and I was also keeping you back from sinning- against Me. Therefore I did not allow you to touch her.

Sin is transgression of the Torah.

(CLV) Gn 39:9
He is no greater in this house than I am; and he has not kept back anything from me except you, because you are his wife. How should I do this great evil and -sin against Elohim?

Joseph knew the Torah too.

HARK! · Sep 12, 2021

Cribstyl said:
Using a partial quote from 1John 3:4 as the definition of sin is a con job.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

In light of Yahshua example, throughout his entire ministry, and his call for his disciples to follow that example, how would you explain those last three words away?

HARK! · Sep 12, 2021

Cribstyl said:
You just said 6 different statements, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. The fact is the bible shows that God's covenants are His commandments for certain generations. Gen 12 is where bible history slows down because God chose Abraham.

God bless

Are you preparing for the next world flood?

BobRyan · Sep 17, 2021

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Cribstyl said:
It is falsely reasoned that Sin needs a law to break. Your trek to prove a law should come from Genesis.
Using a partial quote from 1John 3:4 as the definition of sin is a con job.

1. Your argument is "with the text"
2. After declaring your contradiction to its teaching you then declare that the mere quote of the text is "a bad thing" ?? seriously

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"???

HARK! · Sep 17, 2021

Cribstyl said:
Distant future? In Matt 24:20-21 Jesus was speaking to the generation that was listening to Him at that time. No one would probably escape the burning down of Jerusalem on a Sabbath. The gates were always closed on Sabbath.

The siege lasted for five months. Are you asserting that the gates were open every day during that siege except the Shabbats? If so I'll need to see proof to back that assertion. In absence of evidence, common sense tells me to consider your assertion debunked

BobRyan · Sep 17, 2021

Cribstyl said:
Hmmm... Technically you may have an argument but scripturally you're incorrect.
Read
Neh 9:13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
Neh 9:14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

Here is God making His argument about when He first gave the Sabbath.
Eze 20:10 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness.
Eze 20:11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.
Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
Eze 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Distant future? In Matt 24:20-21 Jesus was speaking to the generation that was listening to Him at that time. No one would probably escape the burning down of Jerusalem on a Sabbath. The gates were always closed on Sabbath.
Obviously you're staging up questionable narratives about the Sabbath. Isa 66 is a last days prophesy that's poorly interpreted by some.

1. None of those texts say "The Sabbath did not exist before Exodus 20" - so almost no Bible scholar in any Christian denomination would be confused on that point.

2. None of those texts say "it was only a sin for Jews to take God's name in vain"

3. None of those texts delete Is 56:6 from scripture were even gentiles were singled out for Sabbath keeping and Christ affirms that the Sabbath was "made for mankind" Mark 2:27 and not "just Jews".

The problem with your suggestions - is scripture itself.

namohcam · Sep 19, 2021

The Sabbath, Before and After

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