It get's personal for Biden

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,100
11,401
76
✟366,826.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
And lets not forget, Biden supported NAFTA and the G-8 which Clinton signed.

To be fair, NAFTA only had a modest benefit to the United States, increasing GDP and jobs, but not as much as some proponents hoped. From the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania:
For all that, most studies conclude that NAFTA has had only a modest positive impact on U.S. GDP. For example, according to a 2014 report by the Peterson Institute for International Economics (PIIE), the United States has been $127 billion richer each year thanks to “extra” trade growth fostered by NAFTA. For the United States, with its population of 320 million at the time of that study, the pure economic payoff was thus only $400 per person, while per capita GDP was close to $50,000. And while the costs of NAFTA are highly concentrated in specific industries like auto manufacturing — where job losses may be significant for specific firms — the benefits of the trade pact (such as lower prices for imported electronics or clothing) are distributed widely across the U.S., as they are in the case of any trade pact worldwide.
NAFTA’s Impact on the U.S. Economy: What Are the Facts? - Knowledge@Wharton


So each of us is only $400 a year richer because of NAFTA. Which is still better than it would have been without the agreement.
 
Upvote 0

SoldierOfTheKing

Christian Spenglerian
Jan 6, 2006
9,230
3,041
Kenmore, WA
✟278,166.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
No. They're blaming him for surrendering to the Taliban, and not even insisting that the Taliban do what they agreed to do. This, if it wasn't for our intelligence and Biden's attention, could have have killed hundreds of American civilians.

That's just an excuse. They don't what to admit to supporting perpetual deployment of troops to the country, so they argue that we can't leave now because of the the conditions on the ground. The know full well that if conditions for withdrawal have to be perfect, we'll never leave. But victory is always just around the corner if we stay just a little longer. They played the same game in Syria and Iraq...
 
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,100
11,401
76
✟366,826.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Never mind Afghan military equipment - US military leadership didn't have the competence to stop the use of their own.

Well, that's a testable assumption...

Taliban ‘disappointed’ equipment left behind by U.S. forces is unusable
The Taliban is unhappy with their parting gifts.

The mood reportedly turned from celebratory to sullen for Taliban fighters when they discovered equipment left behind by U.S. forces that left Afghanistan after 20 years of war had been inoperable and beyond repair
...

The mood reportedly turned from celebratory to sullen for Taliban fighters when they discovered equipment left behind by U.S. forces that left Afghanistan after 20 years of war had been inoperable and beyond repair, according to a report from Al Jazeera.

“Last night their mood was one of joy, celebration, they were shooting in the sky, there were fireworks,” Al Jazeera reported Wednesday. “The mood here today is quite different.”

According to the Middle Eastern news network, the Taliban took their reporters to the Kabul airport used by U.S. troops to show them wreckage where militants had hoped to find a treasure trove of war machines.

“They are disappointed, they are angry, they say they feel betrayed because all of this equipment is broken beyond repair,” the report said.

Taliban ‘disappointed’ equipment left behind by U.S. forces is unusable

Your spin seems incompatible with the Taliban's admission that the stuff we left is unusable. Although we didn't have the ability to disable all the Afghan army equipment, some of which was just surrendered to the Taliban, we got a lot of that, too.

The commanders on the ground made sure of that. So now the Taliban has a lot of unusable junk, when they thought Trump had promised them all of it in good condition. Hence their feeling of betrayal that our commanders made sure it wasn't going to be usable.

and because Biden is President, all concerned will get to keep their jobs.

Yep. Trump would have had a hissy fit if he had discovered that all that stuff was rendered useless to the Taliban, after all his promises.

No accountability for the swamp.

Wasn't. But the alligators and snakes have left the building. The adults are in charge again in the WH.

Video: U.S. has leveraged tools to hold Taliban accountable for safe passage of those fleeing Afghanistan: Pentagon (NBC News)
 
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,100
11,401
76
✟366,826.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
No. They're blaming him for surrendering to the Taliban, and not even insisting that the Taliban do what they agreed to do. This, if it wasn't for our intelligence and Biden's attention, could have have killed hundreds of American civilians.

That's just an excuse.

Nope. That's what actually happened. About 98% of American civilians already out, and more coming. And so far, not one American civilian killed.

They don't what to admit to supporting perpetual deployment of troops to the country, so they argue that we can't leave now because of the the conditions on the ground.

They got them out. Got the troops out. Military equipment that couldn't be moved out in time, was rendered inoperative. Taliban "feels betrayed."

The know full well that if conditions for withdrawal have to be perfect, we'll never leave.

We left. Thought you knew. We just left on the schedule Biden imposed on the Taliban. They didn't like it, but they really had no say in the decision.
 
Upvote 0

hislegacy

Memories pre 2021
Site Supporter
Nov 15, 2006
43,868
14,006
Broken Arrow, OK
✟700,029.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,100
11,401
76
✟366,826.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Yeah, they look so disappointed.

So they've admitted, now that they realize what our troops left for them:

Last night their mood was one of joy, celebration, they were shooting in the sky, there were fireworks,” Al Jazeera reported Wednesday. “The mood here today is quite different.”

According to the Middle Eastern news network, the Taliban took their reporters to the Kabul airport used by U.S. troops to show them wreckage where militants had hoped to find a treasure trove of war machines.

“They are disappointed, they are angry, they say they feel betrayed because all of this equipment is broken beyond repair,” the report said.

That damaged equipment includes planes and helicopters considered “a national asset” the Taliban says belongs to Afghanistan, where they control the government. The Taliban reportedly plans to reopen the airport for commercial flights, though the military side of the airfield appears to be useless.

_120342615_gettyimages-1234971210.jpg



“The Taliban, disappointed,” an Al Jazeera’s reporter said, looking at apparent wreckage. “As this is what the Americans have left behind.”
A total of 73 aircraft, nearly 100 vehicles and other equipment were abandoned by US troops as they pulled out ahead of the 31 August deadline.

But US Central Command head Gen Kenneth McKenzie said it had all been rendered impossible to use.

"Those aircraft will never fly again," he said.

The aircraft abandoned in Kabul include:


  • MD-530 helicopters, used for reconnaissance and close attack
  • A-29 light attack planes
Taliban ‘disappointed’ equipment left behind by U.S. forces is unusable

Were you really fooled by the propaganda show? Seriously?
 
Upvote 0

JacksBratt

Searching for Truth
Site Supporter
Jul 5, 2014
16,282
6,484
62
✟570,656.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
I doubt if Trump even considered the implications. Yes his Secretary of Defense and his generals kept telling him it was going to a disaster, but he paid no attention.
You "doubt"?

Of course you do. This is all speculation, assumptions and extrapolation.

None of this blame to Trump is valid. It's all deflection.

It's time to stop the "but Trump" mantra and realize that Biden and his admins messed up royally.


I notice that our military people just helped another group of Americans get out. It would have been better if Trump had required the Taliban keep their end of the agreement, but that's history now. We'll have to make the best of the mess he left.

Biden should have negotiated a better exit plan and agreement. However, he showed he is weak. He did not have to do things the way he did. If things that Trump did before were unsatisfactory, Biden should have spoke up and made it right.

Biden is supposed to be the most powerful man on earth and the most popular president ever... yet, he failed. Time to have some big shoulders and accept that it was botched. AND... you can in no way shape or form state how Trump "would have done it" due to the simple fact that that is assumption.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: hislegacy
Upvote 0

JimR-OCDS

God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love
Oct 28, 2008
18,345
3,286
The Kingdom of Heaven
Visit site
✟186,956.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
To be fair, NAFTA only had a modest benefit to the United States, increasing GDP and jobs, but not as much as some proponents hoped. From the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania:
For all that, most studies conclude that NAFTA has had only a modest positive impact on U.S. GDP. For example, according to a 2014 report by the Peterson Institute for International Economics (PIIE), the United States has been $127 billion richer each year thanks to “extra” trade growth fostered by NAFTA. For the United States, with its population of 320 million at the time of that study, the pure economic payoff was thus only $400 per person, while per capita GDP was close to $50,000. And while the costs of NAFTA are highly concentrated in specific industries like auto manufacturing — where job losses may be significant for specific firms — the benefits of the trade pact (such as lower prices for imported electronics or clothing) are distributed widely across the U.S., as they are in the case of any trade pact worldwide.
NAFTA’s Impact on the U.S. Economy: What Are the Facts? - Knowledge@Wharton


So each of us is only $400 a year richer because of NAFTA. Which is still better than it would have been without the agreement.

Well I can only speak for the experience in the company I worked at, Digital Equipment.

They moved the keyboard division to Mexico. It was so corrupt that they had to move operations to Singapore, where it was successful. Either way, Biden helped to create both, NAFTA and the G-8.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,100
11,401
76
✟366,826.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
They moved the keyboard division to Mexico. It was so corrupt that they had to move operations to Singapore, where it was successful. Either way, Biden helped to create both, NAFTA and the G-8.

A million different factors like those are involved. The bottom line is a modest economic gain for the United States.
 
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,100
11,401
76
✟366,826.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
I doubt if Trump even considered the implications. Yes his Secretary of Defense and his generals kept telling him it was going to a disaster, but he paid no attention.

You "doubt"?

Yep. Trump once declared he knew more about military issues than any general. The narcissism thing, you know.
Last year, Donald Trump famously said, “I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me.”

I believe him, because he also said:

“I know more about renewables than any human being on Earth.”
“I understand the power of Facebook maybe better than almost anybody, based on my results, right?”
“Nobody knows more about debt. I’m like the king. I love debt.”
“I think nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world.”
“Nobody knows more about taxes than I do — and income than I do.”
“Nobody knows banking better than I do”
“I understand money better than anybody.”
“I think nobody knows the system better than I do.”
“I know more about contributions than anybody.”
“Nobody knows politicians better than Donald Trump.”
“I know more about Cory (Booker) than he knows about himself.
“Nobody knows more about trade than me.”
“Nobody knows jobs like I do!”
“Nobody in the history of this country has ever known so much about infrastructure as Donald Trump.”
“There’s nobody bigger or better at the military than I am.”
“I know more about offense and defense than they (the generals) will ever understand, believe me.”
“There is nobody who understands the horror of nuclear more than me.”
“I know the H1B. I know the H2B. Nobody knows it better than me.”


This is all speculation, assumptions and extrapolation.

Check the link. It's all there. Did you honestly believe all that?

None of this blame to Trump is valid. It's all deflection.

I'm just pointing out that his actions had consequences. Thank God Biden was smart enough to use the knowledge and skill of his commanders to overcome some of it. The successful removal of (so far) about 98% of our civilians from Afghanistan isn't about Trump's incompetence or Biden's competence. It's about Biden being smart enough to know when to let his commanders and troops do their jobs. Which they did magnificently, regardless of ISIS and Taliban propaganda to the contrary.

It's time to stop the "it's not Trump's fault, he messed up" mantra and realize that even Trump's own people admit that he messed up. Show you again?

Biden should have negotiated a better exit plan and agreement.

He didn't negotiate. He merely told the Taliban what the timetable was and how it would proceed. They grumbled and complained, but submitted to his decision. Notice that Trump "negotiated." And as Trump's own people admitted, he was fooled. The Taliban didn't keep their agreements, but Trump handed back to them 5,000 captured Taliban fighters anyway. Show you that, again?

Trump is weak. He did not have to do things the way he did. Trump messed things up; Biden stepped in and corrected as much as possible at that late date. Or rather, he let our troops do it, which was a very sound decision, one that has extracted almost all of our civilians without one death so far.

Biden is supposed to be the most powerful man on earth

Which would explain why the Taliban submitted when Biden told them he was extending the timeline for US withdrawal. They didn't like it, but they obeyed. And yes, they missed Trump. It was a lot easier with someone as gullible as Trump.

and the most popular president ever...

Someone actually convinced you, people were claiming that? Seriously?

Biden has a lot of opposition; terrorists even tried to overturn the election by attacking our Capitol. Yet, he succeeded in getting our people out of Afghanistan with no civilian losses at all. Or rather, he was smart enough to let our troops do what they were trained to do.

I understand this is hard for you. Reality might be unpleasant, but it is real.
 
Upvote 0

SoldierOfTheKing

Christian Spenglerian
Jan 6, 2006
9,230
3,041
Kenmore, WA
✟278,166.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Nope. That's what actually happened. About 98% of American civilians already out, and more coming.

They don't know that. That's what's so pathetic about the whole thing.

How Many Americans and Allies Are Left in Afghanistan?

On Aug. 18, President Joe Biden said if there were U.S. citizens left in Afghanistan on Aug. 31 who wanted to leave, “we’re gonna stay to get them all out.” But that’s not what happened when the last U.S. soldier departed the country.

Biden broke that promise. But how many Americans are left? The White House puts the figure at 100 to 200, while one Republican lawmaker suggested the figure was much higher. We’ll take a look at what we know and don’t know about these numbers, as well as estimates on how many Afghans who aided U.S. forces still want to leave.

The exact number of Americans still in Afghanistan who want to leave is unknown.


Since the Washington doesn't know, the speak their native language. which is to say, they lie.

And so far, not one American civilian killed.

You don't know that either...

They got them out. Got the troops out.

Some in body bags. But they died for a noble cause - PR for the Biden campaign. I'm sure a lot of them were just bigoted Trump-supporting rednecks anyway.

Military equipment that couldn't be moved out in time, was rendered inoperative.

...and yet we have video footage of the Taliban operating it. Who am I going to believe, the Pentagon or my own lying eyes?

We left. Thought you knew. We just left on the schedule Biden imposed on the Taliban. They didn't like it, but they really had no say in the decision.

We left whimpering with our tails between our legs. The Red Army's mission there in the 80's was a smashing success by comparison. At least the puppet government they installed actually lasted a few years.

...and Americans are dead because of the Biden administration's politically based schedule. Please tell me how the September 11 deadline was anything but political symbolism. Trump had them due to be out in May.

2CARTOON-8.30.21-8.30.21-8.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,100
11,401
76
✟366,826.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,100
11,401
76
✟366,826.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Nope. That's what actually happened. About 98% of American civilians already out, and more coming.

They don't know that.

Intelligence indicates about 100 left. And they just got a few more out this morning. Originally about 5,000 according to best estimates. No way to be sure, since some of them likely found ways out on their own,and others don't want to leave.

And so far, not one American civilian killed.

You don't know that either...

Show us. So far, none. You're grasping at straws, because the operation extracted all those people, and Biden, when informed by military intelligence about an impending ISIS attack, made sure US civilians were not outside the airport until the area was cleared. Our troops knew the attack was coming but they didn't flinch; they did their duty bravely and well.

Some in body bags. But they died for a noble cause

Yes. They protected the Americans and their comrades at the airport. I realize that many of Trump's followers agree with him that such people are "suckers"and "losers." It's probably hard for you to comprehend, but when we swore to defend the Constitution, we were willing to put our lives on the line make the mission happen. If you think we're suckers, then you have my pity.

Military equipment that couldn't be moved out in time, was rendered inoperative.

...and yet we have video footage of the Taliban operating it.

(presents Taliban propaganda images of a few working vehicles)

So you thought that if any of it was working, that means most of it is usable? As you learned, the Taliban is bitterly disappointed, and feels that Trump betrayed them by not making sure all that equipment was usable. There's new management, now. No matter what Trump promised, that equipment was going to be disabled.

We left whimpering with our tails between our legs.

And it wouldn't be a Trump talking point, without another slur on our troops, who performed bravely and effectively here.

Please tell me how the September 11 deadline was anything but political symbolism. Trump had them due to be out in May.

Trump was given that deadline by the Taliban. Given the way he botched the process, there was no way to get it done by that time. Biden told the Taliban that May wasn't acceptable. They didn't like it, but they had no choice but to accept his date.

Oh yes, a cartoon. How... desultory.
 
Upvote 0

SoldierOfTheKing

Christian Spenglerian
Jan 6, 2006
9,230
3,041
Kenmore, WA
✟278,166.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Intelligence indicates about 100 left. And they just got a few more out this morning. Originally about 5,000 according to best estimates. No way to be sure, since some of them likely found ways out on their own,and others don't want to leave.

Exactly. You don't know. Far higher estimates have come from the Biden administration itself...

Up to 15,000 Americans remain in Afghanistan after Taliban takeover

With such a discrepancy in the figures, hundreds or even thousands of Americans could have been killed and intelligence would be none the wiser.

Show us. So far, none.

You make an unsubstantiated assertion, I challenge it, and you ask me to "show us"? No, that's not how it works.

Yes. They protected the Americans and their comrades at the airport. I realize that many of Trump's followers agree with him that such people are "suckers"and "losers." It's probably hard for you to comprehend, but when we swore to defend the Constitution, we were willing to put our lives on the line make the mission happen. If you think we're suckers, then you have my pity.

You swear to defend the Constitution - and you get sent overseas to die for something else entirely, like saving face for an inept administration...

You're grasping at straws, because the operation extracted all those people, and Biden, when informed by military intelligence about an impending ISIS attack, made sure US civilians were not outside the airport until the area was cleared. Our troops knew the attack was coming but they didn't flinch; they did their duty bravely and well.

...and when two hadji fighters are able to get into a position to kill 13 US troops a wound who knows how many more, that's a serious operational failure however you look at it. If intelligence knew the attack was coming and it happened anyway, it only further underscores the incompetency of the leadership. Let me repeat: I am giving Biden the benefit of the doubt over this. He only had limited control of who he was working with. I blame lack of competent military leadership in the US. They were routed by a band of ragtag peasant guerillas. Might as well try to spin Pearl Harbor into a victory.

(presents Taliban propaganda images of a few working vehicles)

ABC News is Taliban propaganda now? Who knew?

So you thought that if any of it was working, that means most of it is usable? As you learned, the Taliban is bitterly disappointed, and feels that Trump betrayed them by not making sure all that equipment was usable. There's new management, now. No matter what Trump promised, that equipment was going to be disabled.

Again you don't know how much of it is unusable; much of it was given to Afghan troops who surrendered en masse. Apparently enough of it is in working condition to cause a serious security breach. The Taliban is now among the better armed regimes in the world just from what you've seen. Certainly the only terrorist group with an air force.

When I was in the service, we weren't allowed to leave a single rifle behind. Of course, that was in the Bush yearss, when military commanders were competent, even if their civilian leadership wasn't. I'm sure it's still the rule for grunts, but apparently for commanders it's a completely different set of rules. After all, what's a Black Hawk and a few MRAP's between friends - or enemies? All that classified information about the capabilities of the Black Hawk, and likely other US aircraft, are not hidden from the Taliban anymore. But this is perfectly OK in the Biden administration, because look, nobody got fired. It's a paradise for incompetent political hacks who have assurance they get to keep their jobs no matter how badly they botch them.

Trump was given that deadline by the Taliban. Given the way he botched the process, there was no way to get it done by that time. Biden told the Taliban that May wasn't acceptable.

No way for Biden to get it done by that time? A lot of good that extra time did him - what came of his insistence that the Afghan army would hold up? It could hardly have been any worse if we did pull out in May, of for that matter if we pulled out in 2002. So what do we have to show for that extra time? More dead Americans...

Oh yes, a cartoon. How... desultory.

Cliché as it may sound, a picture is worth a thousand words.

afb081921dAPC-scaled.jpg

...and from what we've seen from Biden's approval rating over the past few weeks, it doesn't appear that the American public is fooled by the kind of garbage spin doctoring you keep posting on this thread. Up to you if you want do go down on this ship. If that's what you want to do, props for being the most statist Libertarian I've ever run across.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0