The KJV's utterly false translation

Albion

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So you think that the more difficult something a translation is to read the better it is?
I think that the more difficult translation (whose reading level is rated as being at the 12th grade level!) is preferable for several reasons. If there is a comparision being made to the NIV, then that's the fact of the matter.

Also "the acceptance of an ugly translation, even when it's accurate" shows where you're coming from.
Probably so. All things being equal, the familiar translations, the ones that won the world to Christianity, the ones that are beautiful and uplifting, and are not really as hard to read as is claimed...

are better than one of many of the more recent versions that were admittedly produced in order that they be better understood by every reader. For that problem, if it really is a problem, we already have books and online sources that explain difficult passages in the Bible.

The King James translation is more than 400 years old
It's stood the test of time, we might say. :)
 
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I think that the more difficult translation (whose reading level is rated as being at the 12th grade level!) is preferable for several reasons. If there is a comparision being made to the NIV, then that's the fact of the matter.


Probably so. All things being equal, the familiar translations, the ones that won the world to Christianity, the ones that are beautiful and uplifting, and are not really as hard to read as is claimed...

are better than one of many of the more recent versions that were admittedly produced in order that they be better understood by every reader. For that problem, if it really is a problem, we already have books and online sources that explain difficult passages in the Bible.


It's stood the test of time, we might say. :)

Your saying that "I think that the more difficult translation (whose reading level is rated as being at the 12th grade level!) is preferable for several reasons." clearly shows where you're coming from. There is zero basis for saying that the more difficult a translation is to read the better it is. Ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek are not complex, difficult languages. They were the common languages of the time.

I've heard this argument many times and it's as wrong as it has always been.

Reading level is determined by computer algorithm and is based on modern English. It is wrong to think that because the KJV is more difficult to read and understand it's a "better" translation. It isn't. It is a) archaic, b) based on a limited set of source documents, and c) written specifically for a culture that no longer exists.

The KJV is a tool used by many who want to sound authoritative. I can't count how many times I've heard a section of the KJV read, followed by "what this means..." -- on-the-fly translation to "explain" the meaning in modern English.
 
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HIM

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Well at least this thread started out good. I love that there are those here that also knew or took the time to find out the op was incomplete in it's info. Praise God!
 
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Albion

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Your saying that "I think that the more difficult translation (whose reading level is rated as being at the 12th grade level!) is preferable for several reasons." clearly shows where you're coming from. There is zero basis for saying that the more difficult a translation is to read the better it is.
.
Nor did I say that!

This exchange has been made into a debate you're having with some hypothetical opponent.
 
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Another serious mistake in the King James and New King James versions is in 1 John 5:7-8. The latter part of verse 7 and first part of verse 8 did not appear in the Greek texts for the first 1,000 years after the Scriptures were completed. Around the year 500 this portion appeared in the Latin version known as the Vulgate. Apparently the insertion was an attempt to bolster the then-controversial belief in the Trinity. The words added are as follows: "in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth." UCG

"What we call the Old Testament, in its original language, has incredibly few Bible errors. This is primary because the Levitical priests faithfully and painstakingly copied the text for generations. Unfortunately, many errors can be found in the King James Bible due to its translators using Latin readings that sometimes inaccurately conveyed what was in the original Hebrew text."

As if that were not enough, still more errors crept in to the KJV Bible because the translators, picked by King James to produce an English version of God's word, "read into" certain texts their own biases, prejudices and long held church doctrines. This inaccurate method of Bible interpretation is known as Eisegesis." [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]

(see my "signature" for the meaning of eisegesis)
 
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Nor did I say that!

This exchange has been made into a debate you're having with some hypothetical opponent.

a) You wrote "I think that the more difficult translation (whose reading level is rated as being at the 12th grade level!) is preferable for several reasons." (post #21)

b) Are you really hypothetical?
 
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Here is an excellent article to read: Are there Errors in the King James Version (KJV)? | PeterGoeman.com

Here is a small sample: I can sympathize with those who hold to the “KJV only” position. As humans we long for a stable foundation which will help us avoid some difficult questions. It is a zeal for the truth (in most cases) which causes people to proclaim the KJV as the only version Christians should use. However, like the Jews of Paul’s day, this is a zeal which is based on ignorance, not on truth.

If you're interested in further explanation, I recommend Seven Posts about the King James Version | PeterGoeman.com

Of course, I understand if you're not interested!
 
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Trivalee

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Mark 3:29

"Eternal damnation (αἰωνίου ἁμαρτήματος)"

"An utterly false rendering. Rightly as Rev., of an eternal sin. So Wyc., everlasting trespass. The A. V. has gone wrong in following Tyndale, who, in turn, followed the erroneous text of Erasmus, κρίσεως, judgment, wrongly rendered damnation."

Vincent's Word Studies

What's an "everlasting trespass"?

I'm not proficient in Ancient Greek, but I know enough that when the adjective "everlasting" (meaning forever, eternal) is used to describe a negative action; the outcome won't be anything but everlasting damnation!
 
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Ronar Prefect

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So, what are your qualifications? I spent many years in academia, enough to realize that those who consider themselves correct can be in serious error.

Do you think that the plethora of documents available from ancient times, compared to what the KJV translators had available to them, counts for nothing? The modern translations are based on better sources and a greater understanding of the Biblical languages and cultures.

The Textus Receptus is far closer to the Majority Text than the Nestle-Aland. The Alexandrian text type, Codex Sinaiticus(faked by Constantine Simonides), and Codex Vaticanis are NOT better sources. Sinaiticus had over 23,000 alterations because it was forged. It hasn't been carbon-dated, only paleographically dated, which can't be relied upon to tell you anything about the age of a suspected forgery. Further, what makes you think people translating the modern versions(farther in time from the people who wrote the bible) understand the biblical languages and cultures better than the team of scholars who translated the KJV?

You wrote "don't even render a correct translation of those manuscripts, leaving out things clearly in the original Greek(and Hebrew in the OT), and putting things in that clearly AREN'T in the original languages." If you examine your beloved KJV, there are quite a few additions and modifications, rendered in italics, as well as some clearly added sections such as the "long ending" of Mark and Romans 8:1

KJV, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

The King James version agrees with the Majority Text in this instance. The NIV does not. I never said the KJV was a perfect translation, just that it is far more reliable than modern translations.

NIV, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus"

"who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." is an addition by a zealous scribe but is not in the best source texts.

The Majority Text IS the best source, and it is in there.

Also, you make the serious error of stating that those of us who dislike the KJV are somehow deficient in our ability to understand Scripture.

Where did I say that?

If the KJV makes you feel "holier than thou" and "religious" fine, but it is not a good translation. It's archaic, confusing, and sometimes inaccurate.

It doesn't make me feel "holier than thou" or "religious", but it is a decent translation.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I am not familiar with the NET much or the NRSV but the NIV is a TERRIBLE translation. All modern translations have problems, but you would be much better going with the NASB than most others, even though it is translated from the problematic Nestle-Aland line.

It is more accurate to say that all translations have problems. Not just more modern ones, all of them.

There's no such thing as a perfect translation, translation by its very nature is an imperfect art form.

Which is why an over-reliance on a translation (any translation) is going to get people into difficulties eventually.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Ronar Prefect

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Though I am not certain it shows in my words here, my mood was not as loving as it should have been when I answered in this thread today. I apologize, ask forgiveness, and ask for prayers that I may be more loving, have my priorities right, and live so as to glorify God.
 
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HARK!

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