Covid Christian hospitalized, but says "God brought her here"

BBAS 64 said:

Good Day, Rambot

Because some would rather not.. so they do not.

Some would rather so they do.

Really easy.

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Ok. But don't start invoking God selectively. Just say you don't want to take it and you are okay with dying by COVID but not by a vaccine.


It doesn't make sense but is precise at least.

rambot said:

Ok. But don't start invoking God selectively. Just say you don't want to take it and you are okay with dying by COVID but not by a vaccine.


It doesn't make sense but is precise at least.

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There’s no guarantee that everyone will eventually catch COVID, especially people in lower populated areas. So you have a chance at catching COVID then there’s a slight chance that it will be fatal compared to a 100% chance of getting the vaccine and then a very slight chance that it can be fatal. So for some people getting the vaccine is more of a risk than getting COVID.

I think in terms of this "wasted space argument" (not necessarily a fan of the words but....here we are), our health care capacities have been built and structured around the CURRENT LEVELS of suicide, heart, obesity and other related issues. Our systems are used to that. Yes, the COULD HAVE not eaten pizza and America but luckily you live in America where many people are fat and your health care system is built to handle it all.

COVID is a new disease that can be EASILY managed but, to say it's having a profound impact on health care infrastructure is an insult to the word "understatement". The solution to its impact on that infrastructure is easy. super easy. And not only is the solution easy, hospitals COULD EASILY manage the influx of patience if everyone took that solution.

So you have a
1) Complex problem (lack of capacity to deal with influx of a new disease)
2) simple solution to problem (vaccines reduce hospitalizations and are solution to the complex problem and keep the problem from affecting people who are having health issues outside of their control (lou gherigs, car accidents)

I don't think it's wasted space. But it IS wasted resources because, again, the solution to that is simple.

Im wondering if anyone in this thread ever considers this argument from a RIGHTS v RESPONSIBILITES lens....

BNR32FAN said:

There’s no guarantee that everyone will eventually catch COVID, especially people in lower populated areas.

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How many people do you know who have literally never had a cold or flu in their life?

COVID is MORE virulent and more transmissible than either the common cold or flu (and that was bared out by all the measures in place before and that PLUMMETTING of common flu cases).
I can guarantee everyone, at some point, is going to get COVID. Maybe not within the next year or two but it will hit everyone. Guaranteed.

So you have a chance at catching COVID then there’s a slight chance that it will be fatal compared to a 100% chance of getting the vaccine and then a very slight chance that it can be fatal. So for some people getting the vaccine is more of a risk than getting COVID.

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Have you paid ANY attention to data?
There is, I think it was, a 25,000 times GREATER RISK OF DEATH from COVID than from the vaccine. I put the numbers up in a previous thread. It's honestly not even close to comparable. And that doesn't even count LONG COVID cases that are causing some people ot be placed on disability for, as yet, unknown amounts of time.

I'm telling you. The science is telling you. Mathematicians and statisticians will tell you: What you have wrote is FALSE and dangerous for your health to believe. Stop listening to ANYONE who told you that fact. It is wrong.

I'm not trying to be a jerk or pushy. I'm just stating a fact: It is wrong.

rambot said:

No one wants to go to the hospital? That's hard to believe. If that's the case, everyone would be going to get the COVID vaccine since it SIGNIFICANTLY impacts the likelihood of ending up in a hospital.

I mean that is a completely unarguable point; with its imperfections, it STILL does that.

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No, I can authoritatively state that no one wants to go to a hospital because he is too ill to recover at home. Now that is a completely unarguable point.

No one has the right to dictate that another take a drug or vaccine. That decision has to remain solely with the owner of the body (or parent, if a minor or incompetent), in conjunction with his doctor. Period.

RestoreTheJoy said:

No, I can authoritatively state that no one wants to go to a hospital because he is too ill to recover at home. Now that is a completely unarguable point.

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Oh! So people WANT to avoid getting SO sick that they have to go to a hospital?
You HONESTLY could have fooled me because if you look at hospitals, the data is UNDENIABLE!
Or is it a case of that "I'm different from everyone else [because -----] and it won't hit me ever; certainly not that hard"?

No one has the right to dictate that another take a drug or vaccine. That decision has to remain solely with the owner of the body (or parent, if a minor or incompetent), in conjunction with his doctor. Period.

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1) What if an epidemic is NOT about one persons RIGHTS as much as it is about their responsibility to their society?

2) If they ACTUALLY DO IT in conjunction with their doctor, I would agree.
My issue is that, of the people I know who are refusing the vax, are NOT doing it in consultation with their doctor....they're doing it without consulting a youtube doctor or because their naturopath has advised against it.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...tell-patients-not-vaccinated-covid-19/620024/
96% of doctors are vaccinated. That's a lot.

And maybe 4% seems like a lot. But consider:
in 2010, with EVEYRTHING we knew about it, 2% of doctors still smoked.

I am ALSO convinced that a few people are simply saying their doctors told them to AVOID it.

Abaxvahl said:

It might be frustrating but that it is how it should be as long as they exist, since they do need help when they get sick.

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Amen.

Aldebaran said:

That's been the narrative put forth by the MSM for quite some time. The reporter goes to a Covid patient in the hospital and features them on the news saying, "I sure wish I had gotten the shot, and I recommend everyone get the shot now".
But if someone doesn't promote the shot, then they're of no use to the MSM since they won't push the same narrative. But the fact remains that some people DO NOT WANT THE SHOT, and are willing to take the risk of getting Covid, which may end up being a mild case which will give them natural immunity afterwards.
The time is long overdue for the experimental vax crowd to be tolerant and inclusive of those who don't agree with them. Calling people a "waste of space" is not showing tolerance.

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Here is some published peer reviewed work that might interest a few anyway.


3.1.3.1 Fatalities reported in connection with COVID vaccines. Within just five months of the onset of vaccinations, EudraVigilance has accumulated 12,886 deaths in connec16 tion with the COVID-19 vaccines, of which the Pfizer vaccine accounted for almost half (6,306). In the same time period, VAERS has run up 4,406 deaths in all; of these, 91% were associated with the mRNA vaccines, with Pfizer accounting for 44% and Moderna for 47% of the total. It is impossible to know what percentage of all fatalities that occur after vaccination will actually be reported to VAERS or EudraVigilance. However, note that the 4,406 COVID vaccine-related fatalities accrued by VAERS during just the past 5 months exceed the cumulative total of all other vaccines combined, over the entire previous 20 years. It is therefore clear that these vaccines are far and away the most deadly ones in history— quite predictably so, and all for a disease whose case fatality rate does not exceed that of influenza [1, 38].
3.1.3.2 Severe events related to disrupted blood clotting. The litany of diagnoses in both databases that indicate pathological activation of blood clotting is almost endless— heart attacks, strokes, thromboses in the brain and in other organs, pulmonary embolism; but also thrombocytopenia and bleeding, which result from excessive consumption of thrombocytes and of coagulation factors in disseminated intravascular coagulation. These disease mechanisms caused many of the fatalities summarized above; in other cases, they caused severe acute disease, which will in many cases leave behind severe disability.
3.1.3.4 Severe adverse reactions among adolescents. In the age group of 12-17 years, two deaths likely related to the Pfizer vaccine were already reported to EudraVigilance. Also in this age group, there were 16 cases of myocarditis, all in males, and 28 cases of seizures among both sexes, 3 of them reported as life-threatening. There also were a few cases of stroke, myocardial infarction, and severe inflammatory disease. While the numbers of adverse events are much lower than those among adults, this is simply due to the hitherto far lower rates of vaccination in this age group. Should systematic vaccination be green-lighted for adolescents, we must expect these numbers to rapidly climb to a level resembling that seen in adults.
3.1.3.5 Miscarriages. As of June 21st, 2021, EudraVigilance lists 325 cases of miscarriage among vaccinated pregnant women. While it is difficult to ascertain by just how much vaccination will raise the rate of miscarriage, most of these cases were reported by healthcare professionals, who evidently considered a connection to the vaccine at least plausible. This series of cases alone would be reason enough to pause the vaccinations and investigate3.2.4 Reproductive toxicity. Reproductive toxicity was assessed using only one species (rats) and on only small numbers of animals (21 litters). A greater than twofold increase in pre-implantation loss of embryos was noted, with a rate of 9.77% in the vaccine group, compared to 4.09% in the control group. Instead of merely stating [30, p. 50] that the higher value was “within historical control data range,” the study should have stated unambiguously whether or not this difference was statistically significant; and if it was not, the number of experiments should have been increased to ensure the required statistical power. The same applies to the observations of “very low incidence of gastroschisis, mouth/jaw malformations, right sided aortic arch, and cervical vertebrae abnormalities.” Overall, these studies are inadequately described and apparently were also inadequately carried out. 3.2.5 Autoimmunity. Exposure to the vaccine will lead to cell damage due to the cationic lipids, and also to the immune attack on cells producing the spike protein. From the cells undergoing destruction, proteins and other macromolecules will be released; such material must then be cleared away by macrophages. When the clearing system is overloaded because of excessive cell damage and apoptosis (cell death), then the accumulation of cellular debris will lead to chronically excessive type I interferon release; this, in turn, will trigger further inflammation. With time, some macromolecules in the debris will become targets for the formation of autoantibodies and the activation of autoreactive cytotoxic T cells—they will begin to function as auto-antigens. This then leads to further tissue damage and the release of more autoantigens—autoimmune disease will develop. Such an outcome is particularly likely in immunocompromised people or in those who are genetically predisposed to autoimmune disease (e.g. those with the HLA-B27 allele). The risk of autoimmunity induced by BNT162b2 could be adequately addressed only in long-term studies; as with fertility or cancer, the very short period of preclinical and clinical testing means that we are flying blind. It should go without saying that all of these risks are particularly grave with children, adolescents, and young adults.

Hazelelponi said:

All they have to do is quit smoking...

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My dad quite smoking over 15 years ago, and ended up COPD and bladder cancer. Smoking causes bladder cancer. He's cancer free now. But if their was a vaccine , some one else lungs or pills to make the COPD go away. I would sign him up. I bought some lung support for him.

ThisIsMe123 said:

Wow, just wow...and she decides to waste space in lieu of someone who really needs the bed.

Kentucky hospital pushed to its limits as lawmakers extend state of emergency due to COVID-19 surge

"With the grace of God, he is who brought me here. God has brought me where I am right now, and I praise him," she said in her hospital bed through tears, adding that she hopes the message people get from her story is not to get the vaccine, but to know "there's a God, and without him I would not be here today."

Talk about warped.

The fact that she "survived" by the skin of her teeth justified the bed occupancy and continues to reinforce not getting vaccinated. She's perpetuating the problem.

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But I think one thing you might be missing here is the type of theological paradigm she has. Not all have this and I think most Christians don't. It's the way of thinking that goes like this....EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING that happens on the Earth must be the will of God. I think with most Christians they hold like in the Lord's prayer that you need to make requests for things....but if you don't pray you won't get results.

And also if you make wrong decisions you will reap what you sow not necessarily what God wanted to see. As I say some not the greatest percentage but some religious Christians think everything has been directed by providence to occur. When you see it expressed in real life situations like this lady in the hospital and not just theological board rooms it's clearly seen as beyond comprehension and absurd.

Hazelelponi said:

I'm just curious, are people dying of smoking related illnesses "wasting space"? Their illnesses were preventable too... and these die to the tune of 500,000 a year in hospital's all over the U.S. every single year..

What about suicide attempts? Are they "wasting space" when they're taken to the hospital's to save their lives?

What about obesity? That's preventable and they have to seek medical care in hospital's too for heart disease and other obesity related illnesses... are they "wasting space"?

See... when unvaccinated COVID patients are told they are a "waste of space", that's a rabbit hole where others decide which people are worth saving, and which people aren't.

And in the end, would you want to be denied medical care and/or health insurance because you aren't an "approved" recipient of medical services, because someone else decided you too were a "waste of space"?

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It's interesting that quite a few weeks ago I made these same points on my country's main news network. (government funded) They deleted my comment in the comment section. I really do think it scared them KNOWING its a valid point to make that if disdain is to be shown to those who made not so good decisions about not taking a vaccine then what about a great many other things they don't pick on people for? And I pointed to things like obesity afflictions, alcoholism and the list can go on and on. As far as I'm concerned they KNEW it was a good point but they didn't want it expressed. Meanwhile the general pubic feel they're getting the full spectrum of reasonable questions being allowed to be asked. But are they really?

ThisIsMe123 said:

Um...why are the hyperlinks are essay-length? Now I know not to click. Just mouse over it and you see the sketchy domain name.

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Here is the closing statement of the paper and the resources references to which it was based. For those who are interested. The first paragraph is linked to the original PDF that was posted above in part. And a few of the references were also linked to their origin.

Overall, it is clear that the risk of ADE is recognized in theory but is not addressed in practice. Given the abundant evidence of ADE with experimental SARS vaccines, this is completely irresponsible.


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Hazelelponi said:

And in the end, would you want to be denied medical care and/or health insurance because you aren't an "approved" recipient of medical services, because someone else decided you too were a "waste of space"?

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I think it could be said that humanity is not seeing it's best days. They delight to pride themselves of how enlightened they are but put a little pressure on them and the barbarism rises to the surface.

ThisIsMe123 said:

Wow, just wow...and she decides to waste space in lieu of someone who really needs the bed.

Kentucky hospital pushed to its limits as lawmakers extend state of emergency due to COVID-19 surge

"With the grace of God, he is who brought me here. God has brought me where I am right now, and I praise him," she said in her hospital bed through tears, adding that she hopes the message people get from her story is not to get the vaccine, but to know "there's a God, and without him I would not be here today."

Talk about warped.

The fact that she "survived" by the skin of her teeth justified the bed occupancy and continues to reinforce not getting vaccinated. She's perpetuating the problem.

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Agreed a waste of space. When will people learn?

ThisIsMe123 said:

Well, the outcome of this is insurance companies skyrocketing the premiums of the Covid anti-vaxxers as a result. So instead of denying them care, just hit them in the pocket book.

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Me wonders with the selfishness of people if that would even work, it is no longer about the other just about me

dqhall said:

Praise God for the gift of vaccination and not wasting hospital resources.

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Amen!

rambot said:

Im wondering if anyone in this thread ever considers this argument from a RIGHTS v RESPONSIBILITES lens....

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Unfortunately people now think of rights more then responsibility, they think they know more because of the internet and they can find anything. I can maybe understand Atheists thinking that way but Christians who are suppose to care for others and responsibility are more concerned with self and rights. That is why I am thinking that American or Western Christianity is not authentic Christianity.

rambot said:

Oh! So people WANT to avoid getting SO sick that they have to go to a hospital?
You HONESTLY could have fooled me because if you look at hospitals, the data is UNDENIABLE!
Or is it a case of that "I'm different from everyone else [because -----] and it won't hit me ever; certainly not that hard"?

1) What if an epidemic is NOT about one persons RIGHTS as much as it is about their responsibility to their society?

2) If they ACTUALLY DO IT in conjunction with their doctor, I would agree.
My issue is that, of the people I know who are refusing the vax, are NOT doing it in consultation with their doctor....they're doing it without consulting a youtube doctor or because their naturopath has advised against it.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...tell-patients-not-vaccinated-covid-19/620024/
96% of doctors are vaccinated. That's a lot.

And maybe 4% seems like a lot. But consider:
in 2010, with EVEYRTHING we knew about it, 2% of doctors still smoked.

I am ALSO convinced that a few people are simply saying their doctors told them to AVOID it.

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I don't know why there are so many random capitalized words, but no, people do not want to become ill. Most people avoid going to the hospital except in the case of imminent death being the option (or unconscious, so he is not making the decision).

No one has the obligation to set himself on fire so you can stay warm. You cannot obligate other humans to do what makes you feel comfortable. We all know the injection neither prevents contraction of the virus to the recipient nor spreading of the virus of others.

I would contend that most are indeed consulting their doctors. After all, the rate of injection into the elderly is pretty darn high, and they see doctors the most.

RestoreTheJoy said:

You cannot obligate other humans to do what makes you feel comfortable.

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We do that all the time. They're called "laws".

Aldebaran said:

Laws need to be Constitutional.

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Okay. And?