Foolish Galatians

fli said:

What is hearing of faith?
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. NKJV

Faith comes by hearing the gospel of God and believing it. Can I get another witness?

Click to expand...

Yes but contextually within the passage cited above.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word ) down from above: )
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Christ in the heart and mouth, that is the word of faith in which we are to preach. We hear by the Word of God, Christ in our hearts. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal 2:20

misput said:

Has there ever been salvation by works of the law?

Click to expand...

Never. . .

The law was not given for righteousness/to save, "because righteousness is only by faith" (Galatians 3:11-12).
The law was given to reveal sin (Romans 3:20, 5:13, 7:7), because where there is no law to sin against, there is no sin accounted (Romans 5:13).

Clare73 said:

Never. . .

The law was not given for righteousness/to save, "because righteousness is only by faith" (Galatians 3:11-12).
The law was given to reveal sin (Romans 3:20, 5:13, 7:7), because where there is no law to sin against, there is no sin accounted (Romans 5:13).

Click to expand...

Glad we cleared that up!

misput said:

Glad we cleared that up!

Click to expand...

Me, too!

To kinda throw some fuel on the fire...because I'm that guy...

One could argue that under the old covenant there was salvation by following the law and by performing the appropriate sacrifices when one slipped up.

spiritfilledjm said:

To kinda throw some fuel on the fire...because I'm that guy...

One could argue that under the old covenant there was salvation by following the law and by performing the appropriate sacrifices when one slipped up.

Click to expand...

Except that the sacrifices did not remit sin because its penalty had been paid, they only covered sin (Romans 3:25) until the penalty was paid and they could be remitted.

They were saved "on credit."

Nice try!

spiritfilledjm said:

To kinda throw some fuel on the fire...because I'm that guy...

One could argue that under the old covenant there was salvation by following the law and by performing the appropriate sacrifices when one slipped up.

Click to expand...

That's what I thought Clare was saying and because I knew there are people out there who believe it. We should not go down that road.

spiritfilledjm said:

To kinda throw some fuel on the fire...because I'm that guy...

One could argue that under the old covenant there was salvation by following the law and by performing the appropriate sacrifices when one slipped up.

Click to expand...

Nope. The sacrifices didn't forgive sins, the sacrifices were given to honor God for providing forgiveness. Following the law was not a way to earn favor, but a privilege for being the recipients of God's favor. Salvation was and is of God, and God alone. The choice presented to the Israelites was to choose life that was given as a gift by God, or reject the life provided just as that is our choice today. The trappings of the law were simply the evidence of that faith, the tangible way by which the world would know God's people and through them learn of God's character.

spiritfilledjm said:

To kinda throw some fuel on the fire...because I'm that guy...

One could argue that under the old covenant there was salvation by following the law and by performing the appropriate sacrifices when one slipped up.

Click to expand...

The sacrifices didn't remit sin, but they were outward observances that were intended to demonstrate contrition. This is why the Scriptures say,

"For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; You take no pleasure in burnt offerings. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise." - Psalm 51:16-17

As Christians we understand that cult sacrifices of ancient Israel pointed forward to the reality of the Messiah who gave Himself as the ransom for all.

So the sacrifices themselves did not merit forgiveness, as it is impossible to merit forgiveness, forgiveness comes purely by God's grace freely poured out for us sinners, granting us pardon and reconciling us--accomplished in and by Jesus Christ alone. But the sacrifices were outward displays of contrition, repentance, and admittance of guilt. So those who brought sacrifice did not meet forgiveness on the basis of burnt animal flesh; but rather God's grace freely given for forgiveness on the basis of the once-and-perfect work of Jesus Christ.

Thus the one who brought sacrifice partook, in shadow and symbol, of the true sacrifice of He who would come; and faith in contrition takes hold of God's grace.

When we read the Old Testament there is no promise of salvation in the distinctively Christian sense promised; rather the salvation mentioned in the Old Testament is the salvation of the people from Exile and the oppression of the nations; this points toward the salvation that would come in Christ to bring true and full deliverance to Israel and to all nations from exile, captivity, slavery, and idolatry.

But nothing under the Old Covenant could bring this deliverance, because the promises of the Old Covenant are attached strictly to the land of promise and the systems set up under Torah for Israel.

Which is why Israel as the suffering servant is subsumed into the one Man of Sorrows, the Root of Jesse that would spring forth and bring to pass all the promises of God in the Patriarchs and the Prophets.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

The sacrifices didn't remit sin, but they were outward observances that were intended to demonstrate contrition. This is why the Scriptures say,

"For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; You take no pleasure in burnt offerings. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise." - Psalm 51:16-17

As Christians we understand that cult sacrifices of ancient Israel pointed forward to the reality of the Messiah who gave Himself as the ransom for all.

So the sacrifices themselves did not merit forgiveness, as it is impossible to merit forgiveness, forgiveness comes purely by God's grace freely poured out for us sinners, granting us pardon and reconciling us--accomplished in and by Jesus Christ alone. But the sacrifices were outward displays of contrition, repentance, and admittance of guilt. So those who brought sacrifice did not meet forgiveness on the basis of burnt animal flesh; but rather God's grace freely given for forgiveness on the basis of the once-and-perfect work of Jesus Christ.

Thus the one who brought sacrifice partook, in shadow and symbol, of the true sacrifice of He who would come; and faith in contrition takes hold of God's grace.

When we read the Old Testament there is no promise of salvation in the distinctively Christian sense promised; rather the salvation mentioned in the Old Testament is the salvation of the people from Exile and the oppression of the nations; this points toward the salvation that would come in Christ to bring true and full deliverance to Israel and to all nations from exile, captivity, slavery, and idolatry.

But nothing under the Old Covenant could bring this deliverance, because the promises of the Old Covenant are attached strictly to the land of promise and the systems set up under Torah for Israel.

Which is why Israel as the suffering servant is subsumed into the one Man of Sorrows, the Root of Jesse that would spring forth and bring to pass all the promises of God in the Patriarchs and the Prophets.

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

I agree. Pretty much the same goes for our money and services in the church. they are works which contribute nothing to our salvation. Salvation is free, works sometimes serve as a witness to others of faith.

fli said:

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), 2 and all the brethren who are with me, To the churches of Galatia: NKJV

Click to expand...

Obviously not to all the churches of Galatia... the south seems to have belonged to Peter's stewardship, since they were the circumcision... Galatians 2:7-9 1 Peter 1:1

fli said: ↑
What is hearing of faith?
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. NKJV

Faith comes by hearing the gospel of God and believing it. Can I get another witness?

Click to expand...

HIM said:

Yes but contextually within the passage cited above.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word ) down from above: )
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Christ in the heart and mouth, that is the word of faith in which we are to preach. We hear by the Word of God, Christ in our hearts. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal 2:20

Click to expand...

fli said:

I don't understand your position. Are you saying that Romans 10: 6-9 means that the word (Jesus) is in the mouth and hearts of the elect prior to receiving the Spirit?

Click to expand...

Do you see?
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Ezek 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Ezek 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Ezek 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Galatians 2:20 means we are dead and Christ is doing everything for us therefore we cannot lose faith in Jesus?

Is that what you are saying?

Click to expand...

Faith comes from our heart, deep down inside. If God puts His Word, His Laws in our hearts through Christ and we share in His Spirit true saving faith comes from God.

spiritfilledjm said:

Interesting, then by your definition, nobody is saved, because everyone who believes in Jesus and has accepted Him as Lord and Savior still commits sin daily.

Click to expand...

That's why Lord Jesus included asking forgiveness of sins when we pray, as in Luke 11 when His disciples asked Him 'how'... to pray.

The 'once saved, always saved' doctrine of men is going to lead many into the pit.