An example of how the whole law cannot be practiced today (discussion)

Michael Collum said:

The way he obeyed the sabbath was unorthodox, in the days of Moses, he would have been stoned.

Click to expand...

Not just the Sabbath, but did Jesus obey the entire law?

Michael Collum said:

Jesus appeared to follow a higher principle and spoke of "fulfilling the law" by doing this.

Click to expand...

I’m confused - did he or did he not obey God’s law - the law of Moses? Can you please answer yes, or no?

Michael Collum said:

The way he obeyed the sabbath was unorthodox, in the days of Moses, he would have been stoned.

Click to expand...

Where is your evidence of this? Are you really saying that if Jesus saw a man fall and break his leg on the Sabbath in Moses time, that God's Law would have this man lay on the ground and suffer until sundown? And any one who helped him on God's Sabbath would be stoned to death?

Where does this teaching come from? Who has convinced you of such things? Where is your Biblical Support for such a religious philosophy?

I am truly interested as i have spent a great deal of time in study, and i find no Scriptural reason to believe Moses would have had Jesus murdered for HIS Lifestyle. Please show me where I missed this in scriptures.

Thank you.

Michael Collum said:

Was illustrating the difference between what Jesus taught versus the old covenant teachings. So it would be the opposite of your perception.

Click to expand...

The New Covenant still involves following God's law (Jeremiah 31:33).

Michael Collum said:

From observing the gospel accounts, this is not clear.

The people took up stones to stone him for transgressions, but he talked his way out of it, or used confusion to blend into the crowd.

It is written in the gospel of John that many other things were done by Jesus but they could not be written due to a lack of space in the whole world.

So I'm saying it's not written how he lived his life day to day. It is however written what he taught, the miracles he wrought, and how he fulfilled prophecy.

Click to expand...

It seems it was clear to His Apostles.

Phil. 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

2 Cor. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Pet. 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

If one believes man is subject to the laws of the old covenant then according to scripture the whole law has to be observed. Matt 5: 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law......

Now if you are a new covenant believer then 1Jn3:19-24 applies as the commands man is to abide. 19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Israelites were under all of the dictates of the Law until all is (now was) accomplished.

2Cor3:6-11 tells us the ten commandments was a temporary guide. The ten were given to Israel and only to Israel. Now all mankind is under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

The new covenant still involves following God's law, the Royal Law of ❤

Bob S said:

If one believes man is subject to the laws of the old covenant then according to scripture the whole law has to be observed. Matt 5: 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law......

Now if you are a new covenant believer then 1Jn3:19-24 applies as the commands man is to abide. 19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Israelites were under all of the dictates of the Law until all is (now was) accomplished.

2Cor3:6-11 tells us the ten commandments was a temporary guide. The ten were given to Israel and only to Israel. Now all mankind is under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

The new covenant still involves following God's law, the Royal Law of ❤

Click to expand...

And do we show love to God by obeying God's laws that are written in the heart or disobeying? There is no scripture that says God's Ten commandments are temporary.

According to scriptures the commandments are very much binding so teaching people it's okay to break God's laws I would read Matthew 5:19

This does not sound temporary to me- one of the last verses in the bible.


Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Dogs here means sinners. Sinners are those who break God's holy laws. 1 John 3:4

While right now there is time to repent and turn from our sin, our Heaven Father is coming back for us soon so I wouldn't wait too long before it becomes too late.

Bob S said:

If one believes man is subject to the laws of the old covenant then according to scripture the whole law has to be observed.

Click to expand...

Your "old Covenant" and God's are two completely different things.

In God's OWN Definition of HIS OWN NEW Covenant, HE speaks of 2 things.

#1. The Manner in which God's Laws are administered.

#2. The Manner in which transgression of God's Laws are forgiven.

Both these things were under the purview of Levite Priests. At some point "After those days" the manner in which God's Law is received, and the manner in which sins are forgiven, was Prophesied to change.

It changed at the Advent of the arrival of our New High Priest "After the Order of Melchizedek" replacing the Priesthood which existed before "After those days" which was after the "Order of Aaron"

It's in your own Bible should you care to examine them.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Prior to "After those days", only a Levite could hold the Office of a Priest of God. This LAW, by necessity, had to change, as Jesus was not from the tribe of Levi. There is nothing in Scriptures which teach God's Commandments, Statutes, or Laws changed, other than this Specific requirement, as the Hebrews Author further explains.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

The religious philosophy you are promoting regarding God's New Covenant is one of the "Winds of Doctrine" or "deceptions" Jesus and His inspired Word warned so often about.

SabbathBlessings said:

And do we show love to God by obeying God's laws that are written in the heart or disobeying? There is no scripture that says God's Ten commandments are temporary.

Click to expand...

Did you even read the scripture I provided. 2Cor 3:6-11 emphatically tells us that the ten were temporary. How could you miss that unless you refuse to look at the verses.
6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

I will eat my hat if those verses are not telling us that the ten commandments were not transitory. The meaning of transitory is temporary. We are not subject to the ten, we have the Holy spirit as our guide. Do you deny that?

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,

Click to expand...

Jn 15:9-14 tells us what His commandments are and they ain't the ten. Rev 22:14 does not tell us they are the ten.

Studyman said:

Your "old Covenant" and God's are two completely different things.

Click to expand...

Your whole post doesn't make one bit of sense. First of all "your "old covenant""??? is nonsense. It was God's covenant to one nation on this Earth. Israel broke that covenant and Jesus gave us a new and better covenant with better promises, eternal life for starts. The remainder of your post is not worth correcting.

Bob S said:

Did you even read the scripture I provided. 2Cor 3:6-11 emphatically tells us that the ten were temporary. How could you miss that unless you refuse to look at the verses.
6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

I will eat my hat if those verses are not telling us that the ten commandments were not transitory. The meaning of transitory is temporary. We are not subject to the ten, we have the Holy spirit as our guide. Do you deny that?


Jn 15:9-14 tells us what His commandments are and they ain't the ten. Rev 22:14 does not tell us they are the ten.

Click to expand...

It actually does not tell us the Ten Commandments are temporary. Paul is contrasting the two covenants - the tables of stone versus the tables of the heart. The letter versus the Spirit and the ministration of condemnation vs the ministration of righteousness. The application of the law is what changed written in the heart, not the law itself. Paul also tells us what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 so Paul is not contradicting himself or Jesus when He tells us If we love Him keep My commandments John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3 and you can clearly see it's not the case shown in Revelations that God's saints keep the commandments of God. Rev 14:15

Bob S said:

Your whole post doesn't make one bit of sense. First of all "your "old covenant""??? is nonsense. It was God's covenant to one nation on this Earth. Israel broke that covenant and Jesus gave us a new and better covenant with better promises, eternal life for starts. The remainder of your post is not worth correcting.

Click to expand...

God wrote the second covenant before Jesus came to magnify His Fathers laws. See Jer, 31:33, Hebrews 10:16, Isaiah 42:21

Michael Collum said:

Law singular, not plural.

Click to expand...

All law that comes from God is God's law (singular). Jeremiah 31:33 is referring to all law that is God's or that came from God (divine law). The Hebrew word used in Jeremiah 31:33 for law here is תּוֹרָה "torah" (H8451) meaning all law, directions and instructions that are nominative to God or that have come from God. This is agreed to in the parallel scriptures from Paul in the Greek quoting Jeremiah 31:31-34 in Hebrews 8:10-12. In the Greek where God's torah is nominative to God's ownership for law is laws which agrees with the Hebrew and is in the plural form νόμους nomos (G3551) which is a noun that is accusative masculine plural (N-AMP) meaning all that which is assigned as divine law of course in context being respective of the covenants.

Hope this is helpful

Michael Collum said:

The law in Jeremiah must be the law of liberty spoken of in James.

Click to expand...

Absolutely! Love however is not separate from God's law as James shows in James 2:8-11. It is expressed in obedience to God's law from the heart (inside out) in all those who have been born again through the Spirit *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9 into God's new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27) and is why Jesus says on these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:36-40 (see also Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 which is what Jesus is quoting here); This is what Paul is demonstrating in Romans 13:8-10, James in James 2:8-11 and John in 1 John 5:2-3. They are all in agreement with Jesus showing that love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to God's law from the inside out (from the heart).

Take Care