A quick question about the Dragon

Joined2krist said:

This makes me think that the earth is a condemned place and a hostile place for believers, am i right or wrong?

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In Scripture Satan and many demons are not said to be in the Lake of Fire yet or anywhere but "wandering back and forth on the Earth," this is said of them many times. So to that extent you are right. But this does not mean that the world is good, it means we should live under the authority of God so that we are not under the authority of them. Jesus in the Gospels shows His absolute power over them. So yes the world is hostile to us, but the Lord has already won.

In the future Heaven and Earth will be united and the Universe divinized, and all will be well. God bless.

I think of it like this. Satan has a pilot's license and he flies everywhere he wants to go. He has freedom. When he is cast to the earth, he loses that license and loses a substantial amount of freedom. It's God slowly tightening his noose. God let's him get away with a lot at the very end of history, for reasons we don't quite know. But yeah, don't worry about it.

"The world" =/= the earth. One is God's creation, and is/was good. The "world" is in varying senses, demonic, evil, full of violence and oppression.

It is all part of God's creation, although, in the world, God's creation is marred by the evil of men's hearts and minds.

Joined2krist said:

I've been reading the book of Revelation and meditating on it. My question is on these verses 'Rev 12:9, 12 & 17'
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The huge dragon was thrown out- that ancient serpent, called the devil or satan, that deceived the whole world. he was thrown down to earth, and all his angels with him'

Why earth?


vs 12 'And so be glad, you heavens and all you that live there! But how terrible for the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, and he is filled with rage, because he knows that he has only a little time left'

again, why does earth and sea have to accommodate him and his demons until his time is over?

vs17 ' The dragon was furious with the woman and went off to fight against the rest of her descendants, all those who obey God's commandments and are faithful to the truth revealed by Jesus'

This makes me think that the earth is a condemned place and a hostile place for believers, am i right or wrong?

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the red dragon and adam are the same, adam means "to be red". it's a symbol of fallen humanity.

Noxot said:

the red dragon and adam are the same, adam means "to be red". it's a symbol of fallen humanity.

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Not so. Revelation specifically states the red dragon is Satan.

friend of said:

Not so. Revelation specifically states the red dragon is Satan.

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evil humanity is Gods adversary.

Isa 1:16-20 (YLT)
Wash ye, make ye pure, Turn aside the evil of your doings, from before Mine eyes, Cease to do evil, learn to do good. Seek judgment, make happy the oppressed, Judge the fatherless, strive for the widow. Come, I pray you, and we reason, saith Jehovah, If your sins are as scarlet, as snow they shall be white, If they are red as crimson, as wool they shall be! If ye are willing, and have hearkened, The good of the land ye consume, And if ye refuse, and have rebelled, By the sword ye are consumed, For the mouth of Jehovah hath spoken.

I don't disagree necessarily, but Christ died for us while we were yet enemies. There is something more going on beneath the surface.

Joined2krist said:

I've been reading the book of Revelation and meditating on it. My question is on these verses 'Rev 12:9, 12 & 17'
.
The huge dragon was thrown out- that ancient serpent, called the devil or satan, that deceived the whole world. he was thrown down to earth, and all his angels with him'

Why earth?


vs 12 'And so be glad, you heavens and all you that live there! But how terrible for the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, and he is filled with rage, because he knows that he has only a little time left'

again, why does earth and sea have to accommodate him and his demons until his time is over?

vs17 ' The dragon was furious with the woman and went off to fight against the rest of her descendants, all those who obey God's commandments and are faithful to the truth revealed by Jesus'

This makes me think that the earth is a condemned place and a hostile place for believers, am i right or wrong?

Click to expand...

1. Earth was created sinless and perfect - in 7 literal days Gen 1:2-Gen 2:3, Exodus 20:11.
2. There was war in heaven and satan and his angels were cast out.
3. Satan in his fallen state "the serpent of old" Rev 12, was in the garden but only had access to Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And Adam and Eve were warned to stay away from it. Gen 2, Gen 3. But then Eve fell and then Adam fell. Mankind was then fallen from that day to this.
4. Since Adam and Eve chose to believe Satan instead of believing God they in effect joined him in revolt, in rebellion. As a result they lost their dominion of Earth and Satan picked it up as leader of rebellion.

Satan's only access would have been limited to just that one tree - had Adam and Eve never sinned. This Earth in that case would still be under Adam's dominion.

Joined2krist said:

The verses I quoted were specific. It says the dragon is satan

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the parables that Jesus explained to his disciples need further explanation as well, because God is rich in knowledge and wisdom which is why Jesus can break up the bread and fish to feed a multitude.

Joined2krist said:

Thanks. The earth didn't have to be hostile for us(believers) if satan and his demons weren't thrown down here. Is the earth a place of punishment for them then?

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It was never given over to them at all - until Adam fell. At that point they won the earth as a place to hold dominion.

In Matt 4 and Luke 4 - at the temptation of Christ - Satan tells Christ "The Earth has been given over to me and I give it to whomever I want" in regard to his offer to give Christ Earth and thus save Christ from the unpleasant task of dealing with a nation in rebellion and having to die to get Earth back.

But Rev 12 points out that "at the cross" another phase in the battle between Christ and Satan was reached - and Satan lost, he was cast down.

Notice that in Job 1 and in Job 2 Satan has access to the council in heaven even after the fall of Adam. Satan had some degree of authority/power outside of Earth even then. But at the cross Satan lost all connection with the realms outside of Earth.

Joined2krist said:

If satan knew that Christ was going to die for our sins to set us free, he wouldn't have killed him, he didn't know God's plan for our salvation

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Satan is smarter than a human and can read the OT texts even better than we can. He saw the plan as the OT described it.

Satan was eye-witness to the fact that God was soo disgusted with mankind in Gen 6 that God destroyed all life on dry land with a world wide flood.

His plan was to make mankind sooo disgusting to the Messiah that Jesus would give up on us and not die for our sins. Hence all the shame and torture Satan put on Christ right up to the last second of His life. At any moment Christ "could have come down from the cross" -- He had to be determined not to do it right to the last minute.

Jesus was killed by a religious community.

It's a repetitive story -- so too were the prophets killed.

In the world, men and women seek power. They seek to rule, to be as God. They cover up their true nature and give an external show of "righteousness," because it is all conducive toward their desires and plans, and it almost invariably leads to violence, oppression, and evils, justified with false morality that never originated with the true Law Giver. It's the spirit of the adversary at work, and it's all around us.

Joined2krist said:

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The huge dragon was thrown out- that ancient serpent, called the devil or satan, that deceived the whole world. he was thrown down to earth, and all his angels with him'

Why earth?

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He and his cohorts were flung to earth to live with the sinful but elect (good) seed, the sinful people of the kingdom, to help so their eyes might be opened to their willingness to be evil like the weeds so they could repent and to bring them to full holiness, that is, a complete and utter accord with GOD's damnation of them as utterly unredeemable and eternally evil, fit only for destruction, so the sinful elect will end their idolatry of the reprobate and end the postponement of the judgement day:

Matt 13:24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. [How are they good when they are obviously sinners? GOOD cannot have reference then to their righteousness so that leaves us with good referring to their status as elect, as His sheep gone astray, who are redeemable.]

25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. [a reference to verses 36-39]

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ [that is, bring judgement upon them?]

29 “ ‘NO!’ he answered, [postpone the judgement...] ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest.

The harvest IS the time of the maturity of the plant but the only maturity that saves one from the judgement is a full maturity in holiness, that is, a complete agreement with GOD's determination to bring the judgement upon these demonic eternally evil reprobate weeds.

Since this growing together ends with the harvest I see it as being helpful to the maturity of the good seed and since the only thing the reprobate can offer is to be the ultimate bad example, then it suggests that the sin of the good seed was to reject GOD's description of the weeds as eternally evil and the need for hell.

Joined2krist said:

This makes me think that the earth is a condemned place and a hostile place for believers, am i right or wrong?

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Of course this is right... 2 Peter 3:10 But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and its works will be laid bare. and Peter goes on to say that we can speed up the coming of this day with our holiness;
11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to conduct yourselves in holiness and godliness 12 as you anticipate and hasten [SPEED UP] the coming of the day of God, when the heavens will be destroyed by fire and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with God’s promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Joined2krist said:

I've been reading the book of Revelation and meditating on it. My question is on these verses 'Rev 12:9, 12 & 17'
.
The huge dragon was thrown out- that ancient serpent, called the devil or satan, that deceived the whole world. he was thrown down to earth, and all his angels with him'

Why earth?


vs 12 'And so be glad, you heavens and all you that live there! But how terrible for the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, and he is filled with rage, because he knows that he has only a little time left'

again, why does earth and sea have to accommodate him and his demons until his time is over?

vs17 ' The dragon was furious with the woman and went off to fight against the rest of her descendants, all those who obey God's commandments and are faithful to the truth revealed by Jesus'

This makes me think that the earth is a condemned place and a hostile place for believers, am i right or wrong?

Click to expand...

This messed up earth with all it’s tragedies, disasters, deaths, and hardships, is the very best place for willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective.

Satan is allowed to roam the earth to help willing individuals in their fulfilling their earthly objective.

Sinning is not only inevitable but it is also necessary to help willing mature adults in fulfilling their earthly objective.