"JUSTIFICATION": to the wicked, or to the just?

DaDaBrothers

Active Member
Aug 11, 2021
111
15
25
Corroios
✟4,417.00
Country
Portugal
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Certainly, belief leads to righteousness

No, because dead faith only leads to death. So, first you work righteousness and then you can say you believe. Faith without works is dead, Righteousness leads to true faith.

confession of Jesus’ name leads to salvation

No it doesnt, anyone can profess His name, doesnt mean they will be saved:

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

But He does impute Jesus’ righteousness to us, just as our unrighteousness is imputed to Jesus

The word "impute" is seen as bribery, is a "free gift", like the word "credited" to you for free. This is a bribe, to tell someone they will be saved for free without having to work for their life, it is dishonest, deception, not true, not fair, and not from God.
He does not "impute" nothing "unmerited", He rewards everyone according to their deeds, and all of His reward is merited, because His Justice is perfect. The sinner receives death and the righteous receive life. Both rewards were merited, earned, and fair, everyone will get what they deserve, not "free gifts".

He sacrificed His Son

It was not a sacrifice, It was an example to follow, "Follow me":
16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

How can the shedding of blood take away sin?
And Iesus answered: No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay, it will increase the condemnation.
 
Upvote 0

Doug Brents

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2021
1,092
230
50
Atlanta, GA
✟12,153.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No, because dead faith only leads to death. So, first you work righteousness and then you can say you believe. Faith without works is dead, Righteousness leads to true faith.

Read Rom 10:10 again. What does it say?
“For with the heart one believes unto righteousness”. With the heart one believes leading to righteousness. It doesn’t say that belief causes righteousness, only that it leads towards righteousness.

Indeed, dead faith is not faith at all, and so is worthless. But an active faith, one that is obedient to God in response to hearing the Gospel, is rewarded by God with righteousness.

No it doesnt, anyone can profess His name, doesnt mean they will be saved:

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Indeed, again Rom 10:10 says that confession of Jesus’ name leads toward, not causes, salvation.

The word "impute" is seen as bribery, is a "free gift", like the word "credited" to you for free. This is a bribe, to tell someone they will be saved for free without having to work for their life, it is dishonest, deception, not true, not fair, and not from God.
He does not "impute" nothing "unmerited", He rewards everyone according to their deeds, and all of His reward is merited, because His Justice is perfect. The sinner receives death and the righteous receive life. Both rewards were merited, earned, and fair, everyone will get what they deserve, not "free gifts".

No, this is not bribery. Bribery is the giving of a bribe - a gift given to induce someone to act in the briber’s favor, usually for illegal purposes.

Since God is the producer of LAW, He cannot act illegally. Further, He needs nothing, so He has no need of our “acting in His favor.” His gift is geared toward enticing us to act in our own best interest.

It was not a sacrifice, It was an example to follow, "Follow me":
16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

How can the shedding of blood take away sin?
And Iesus answered: No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay, it will increase the condemnation.
Sorry, the death of Jesus was a sacrifice.
John 3:16 - God gave Jesus.
Phil 2:6-8 - Jesus humbled Himself, He gave up His life, it was not taken from Him.
Mark 10:45 - Jesus gave Himself as a ransom (payment) for us.
And there are many, many more.

Heb 9:22 - “And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission [of sin].”
1 John 1:7 - “But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
The blood of Jesus, shed on the cross, is the only thing that can take away sin. And He gave it up freely, without coercion, not to bribe us but to purchase us from death.
 
Upvote 0

DaDaBrothers

Active Member
Aug 11, 2021
111
15
25
Corroios
✟4,417.00
Country
Portugal
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
With the heart one believes leading to righteousness.

Anyone that "believes" without works, has dead faith. So if this "one" is still "leading up to righteousness", he has dead faith, since they are still in unrighteousness. It is only when they become righteous that they can say they truly believe on Him, because they do the things He says. Until then is dead faith he is talking about.

No, this is not bribery.

But it is exactly what it is. This "unknown god" has "credited" you with "free righteousness" in "exchange" for sin, and made you break the law, when you accepted the bribe.
Also, how can anyone say they have the "righteousness of Christ" in them and still sin?

Since God is the producer of LAW, He cannot act illegally.

Of course He cannot, that is what Ive been telling you, He cannot justify sinners (Exodus 23:7) neither bribe anyone (Exodus 23:8)

He has no need of our “acting in His favor.”

No "need" but God is pleased by faith. The one who needs Him is us. We need to act accordingly, to be saved from His wrath.

Sorry, the death of Jesus was a sacrifice.

Sacrifices are a thing of the law of Moses: according to the law, and to be cleansed you have to walk in the light first.
But basically you are saying all the priests and pharisees that "sacrificed" Christ got their sins remitted because they shed innocent blood?
Why dont we do the same and hunt for innocent blood to shed, so our sins get removed?

Ah, its because the sheding of innocent blood can only increase the condemnation.
If you want to be forgiven, repent and forgive others.
 
Upvote 0

Doug Brents

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2021
1,092
230
50
Atlanta, GA
✟12,153.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Anyone that "believes" without works, has dead faith. So if this "one" is still "leading up to righteousness", he has dead faith, since they are still in unrighteousness. It is only when they become righteous that they can say they truly believe on Him, because they do the things He says. Until then is dead faith he is talking about.



But it is exactly what it is. This "unknown god" has "credited" you with "free righteousness" in "exchange" for sin, and made you break the law, when you accepted the bribe.
Also, how can anyone say they have the "righteousness of Christ" in them and still sin?



Of course He cannot, that is what Ive been telling you, He cannot justify sinners (Exodus 23:7) neither bribe anyone (Exodus 23:8)



No "need" but God is pleased by faith. The one who needs Him is us. We need to act accordingly, to be saved from His wrath.



Sacrifices are a thing of the law of Moses: according to the law, and to be cleansed you have to walk in the light first.
But basically you are saying all the priests and pharisees that "sacrificed" Christ got their sins remitted because they shed innocent blood?
Why dont we do the same and hunt for innocent blood to shed, so our sins get removed?

Ah, its because the sheding of innocent blood can only increase the condemnation.
If you want to be forgiven, repent and forgive others.
Just wow! There are no words for the ignorance exposed in your comment.

I am going to call this one right here. When you decide to read what I write, and more importantly what Scripture says, get back with me.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: DaDaBrothers
Upvote 0

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
Justification and being glorified, are together.


Otherwise it is like being cleansed of all unrighteousness, all of that is removed and what you have left is nakedness.

Then we are required to cloth ourselves with righteousness, and if we do not, we are ashamed and found naked.



The nations shall be ashamed, but Israel was saved in the Lord with the everlasting salvation, to not be ashamed, in the world without end...


Isaiah 45:16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.




Babylon, received the judgement of shame, it's nakedness was uncovered, it's shame seen, by the redeemer, the Lord of Hosts, the Holy one of Israel.

Revelation 17, then is a confirmation of the mystery, of Babylon the great, the mother of harlots ( nakedness and shame)


Revelation 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.


Isaiah 47: 1 Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate.

Isaiah 47:3 Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.
4 As for our redeemer, the Lord of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel.


Ninevah receives this judgement, because of the whoredoms, the wellfavoured harlot, the mistress of witchcraft, and the Lord is against, and shows the nations ( who they sold through witchcraft) it's nakedness, and the kingdoms it's shame..



Nahum 3:4 Because of the multitude of the whoredoms of the wellfavoured harlot, the mistress of witchcrafts, that selleth nations through her whoredoms, and families through her witchcrafts.
5 Behold, I am against thee, saith the Lord of hosts; and I will discover thy skirts upon thy face, and I will shew the nations thy nakedness, and the kingdoms thy shame.




Now see the counsel of the Lord for us, ( or try to ignore it) we nee to be clothed with that white raiment, to be clothed, so that the shame of our nakedness does not appear.

That is putting on Christ to abide in Him, to not be ashamed before Him at His coming, knowing He is righteous ( in how He is clothed) we do righteousness to be born of Him.

Taking to ourselves the whole armour of God, to withstand all of the evil, and we stand by having our loins girt about with truth ( the Spirit of truth/charity/Christ put on, the bond of perfectness) and having on the breastplate of righteousness, and our feet shod with the preparation of the Gospel of peace.

And righteousness shall be the girdle of His loins ( the Messiah) and faithfulness the girdle of His reins, to judge the poor with righteousness, reproving with equity for the meek of the earth, and slaying the wicked with the breath of His lips ( the judgement brought to earth/ testified) and we see one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment ( white linen) and girt about the paps with a golden girdle..




Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Ephesians 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Isaiah 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Revelation 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.





We remember the words of Romans 3, how the whole world guilty of sin, know not the way of peace, and have no fear of God before their eyes..




Romans 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.



Taken from here in Isaiah 59, their feet run to evil, with thoughts of iniquity, the way of peace they know not, no judgement in their goings, they made crooked paths ( of their crooked serpent father)

They look for judgment and salvation but it is far off from them..


Isaiah 59:7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths.
8 The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noon day as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.
11 We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us.



Isaiah 59 continuing, lying against the Lord, conceiving from the heart words of falsehood, and truth faileth, and it displeased the Lord, that there was no judgment, no man, no intercessor, so His arm brought salvation, and His righteousness sustained Him, for He put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon His head, and He put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak....


Isaiah 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the Lord, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.



So shall they then fear the name of the Lord, as the Spirit of the Lord lifted up the standard against the enemy ( against the devil and death) as the redeemer came to Zion, and unto those who turn from transgression in Jacob, and this is the covenant with us, the Spirit of the Lord and His words do not depart out of our mouth for ever.

God raised the Son, sending Him to bless us, in turning away every one of us from our iniquities..



Isaiah 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.
21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.



Continuing to Isaiah 61, our soul shall be joyful in God, clothing us with the garments of salvation, covering with the robe of righteousness, and so the Lord caused righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

Letting thy priests be clothed with righteousness, as God made us priests unto our God, and we shall reign on the earth..




Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

Psalm 132:9 Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.




Then God sprinkled clean water upon us, to be clean from all of the filthiness, cleansed from all idols, given a new heart and a new Spirit, causing us to walk in His statutes, to keep His judgments and do them, saving us from all of our uncleannesses..



Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.




As in that day there was a fountain opened, for sin and for uncleanness, and in that day the Lord cut off the name of the idols, to no more be remembered, the same with the prophets and the unclean spirits to pass out of the land..



Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.





Jesus fulfilling all, ( not some or parts people try to pick out) Reveals how the Pharisees ( of Israel) clean the outside, and within are full of excess.

Jesus tells the hypocrites, and blind, to first cleanse the within, that the outside may be clean also.


Woe is given, as they are seen as being whited on the outside, but within they are full of all uncleanness, appearing outwardly righteous to men, when inside is only full of hypocrisy and iniquity..




Matthew 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.





This time the Pharisees are also labelled as fools, cleaning the outside only, and leaving the inside ( heart and spirit and mind) full of ravening and wickedness.

But what is within is made too, and requires the same cleaning.

Giving alms of all they have, and all things would be clean to them ( kindness love and mercy)

But woe is to the Pharisees ( of Israel) and to all the wicked by the breath of Christ, as they pass over the judgement of God and the love of God, which they ought to have done, but left it undone..




Luke 11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.
40 Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?
41 But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.
42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
 
Upvote 0

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
Yes the Lords hand saves, His own arm brought salvation read the answer before this ( or do not)

They speak vanity and lies they trust, and their evil ways have separated between God and man..



Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.
4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.



As confirmed in Ezekiel and all of he old testament, that Israel needed a new heart and spirit, to stop dying in evil transgressions..


Ezekiel 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.




Israel of course could not make a new heart and spirit, this is the covenant God made with them, that God put His laws into the mind and heart He wrote them, giving a new heart and Spirit



Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:



But the world despises the goodness and forbearance of the Lord, which led man to repentance, with their hardness and impenitent heart, they treasure up wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God..


Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
 
Upvote 0

DaDaBrothers

Active Member
Aug 11, 2021
111
15
25
Corroios
✟4,417.00
Country
Portugal
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The nakedness is refering to people without the robe of righteousness, they were not justified to begin with, maybe not even cleansed once, and are left naked without righteousness.

Now the righteous who have repented by their free will can be justified by God and are given robes:

Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

The new hearth and spirit is given to those who repent and walk in the covenant, just like the robes are given to the righteous only.
Those who dont repent remain with the hearth of stone and naked.

Not sure what you were trying to prove here, but it wasnt that we have no free will nor that sinners can be cleansed or justified.
 
Upvote 0

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
Ecclesiastes 1:2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 
Upvote 0

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
Vain talkers invent their own words, and cannot speak by Gods words. ( are also double minded and unstable souls, being against the Lords Holy Apostles and insisting they believe in all the words of the whole bible anyway)

The Shepherd of the sheep found them, going astray, and brings them back to Him, by giving the new heart and Spirit, and the mind that is in Christ, or they would go astray again, and repent with the sorrow of the world.

But godly sorrow ( need to have godliness placed in man to be godly) works repentance to salvation, never repented of, so they clear themselves ( from all that vomit and filthiness the ones in liberty.free will are promised to escape from)

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
 
Upvote 0

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
DaDaBrothers: "The new hearth and spirit is given to those who repent and walk in the covenant"


Yet, the hidden wisdom of God, would need to be revealed first, to be able to be believed in.

But eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor entered into the heart of man, the things God prepared ( the mystery of godliness)

But God reveals them to us, by His Spirit, ( need this to believe and the things of God to believe in, to enter the heart)

No man knows the things of God, but the Spirit of God ( cant know or believe until the Spirit first given to know and believe with into the heart of men)

To know ( believe) in these things of God, we did not receive the spirit of the world ( that is in man/evil spirit) to know the things freely given to us of God ( the gift of Christ/eternal life to believe in with the new heart and Spirit given)


But the natural man, who DaDabrothers says repents and believes, does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, and they are foolishness to him ( as DaDabrothers said "Not sure what you were trying to prove here") neither can DaDabrothers ever be sure of what I am proving here, as they are spiritually discerned ( but they cannot resist the Spirit by which you talk by)..



1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



Also that is to have the mind of Christ, instead of the mind that understands nothing/can believe in nothing of God's Holy Spirit..

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
I hear you ask, what is the mystery of godliness, and also what is the opposite, the mystery of iniquity ( ungodliness) ?


Yes, God came in the flesh ( antichrists deny that Christ came in the flesh) and justified in the Spirit, received up to glory, and many deceivers entered our world, who deny this and do not confess Christ...




1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.



The mystery among the Gentiles, now made manifest ( it had to be manifested/revealed by Christ, revealed by the Spirit of God or it cannot enter natural mans heart) which is Christ in us..

Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:



Here is the mystery of the ungodliness and those workers of iniquity, who pretend to believe in Christ.

With all lying, and all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish ( many say Lord Lord, He says I never knew you all you workers of iniquity, they had no Spirit given to discern/believe with) and then they received not the love of the truth ( prepared for them that love Him, He knows His own sheep)..


2 Thessalonians 2: 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
 
Upvote 0

DaDaBrothers

Active Member
Aug 11, 2021
111
15
25
Corroios
✟4,417.00
Country
Portugal
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Your spirit of discernment which you seem unable to resist, is not greater than the word of God. The natural man does indeed repent as it is written, only your exclusive revelation is saying it doesnt, and until you come up with a second witness it is not to be considered truth.

The Shepherd of the sheep found them, going astray, and brings them back to Him, by giving the new heart and Spirit

Two times have your hears not heard, now for the third time, I will show you (again) how sinners can and do repent by themselves:

Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The sinner is called to repentance, this is how The Shepherd "brings them back to Him", He calls them to repentance, not by "giving them" anything, (as your discernment was wrongly assuming). The spirit and hearth is given to His sheep only. After they repent.

know the things freely given to us of God ( the gift of Christ/eternal life to believe in with the new heart and Spirit given)

Why reject the word of God again? Have you not read not to accept bribery?

The Spirit can only be given to those who repent, the Spirit is not "freely given" to the unbeliever:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost is given only to the believer, who repents, and after he has repented.

But you say the sinner "freely receives" eternal life first, and then he can believe.
But the word of God says:
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Eternal life is only given to those that believe on Him, repent and keep the commandments. Not to sinners and not for free.

Your words are just vanity without Scripture to support them.

I hear you ask, what is the mystery of godliness, and also what is the opposite, the mystery of iniquity ( ungodliness) ?

You are hearing things man, how about hearing the word of God and not your own understanding and discernment.
 
Upvote 0

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
DaDabrothers thinks men come to Christ of their own hearts desire, their own fear of God.

God gives us one heart and one way, to fear Him for ever.

This is God making the everlasting covenant with us, to put His fear in our heart, so we shall not depart from Him ( nothing of free will then)...




Jeremiah 32:39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:

Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.




The prediction for the end of the world, about the deceiving spirit that is in man, reveals they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities ( they all have in common attack against the Lords Apostles naming them hypocritical sinners and false Apostles) and that these feed themselves without fear, and feast with you.






2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:





What an antichrist opinion, to reject all verses of the Lord, where one after another we see that the prayer for all, was that the Father may give unto them the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him ( then their eyes are enlightened to believe sincerely) to know the hope of His calling.

This is the inheritance of the saints in the riches of the glory ( of God)..



Ephesians 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,





Again, the prayer ( on the knees) unto the Father, is that God would grant you according to those riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might by His Spirit, for Christ to dwell in your heart by faith ( need the faith of Christ given for this) to be rooted in love, to comprehend with all saints, to know the love of Christ, passing knowledge ( of natural man who brings himself to God anyway) to be filled with the fulness of God, and NOT AS THE PRESUMPTUOUS SELF WILLED..




Ephesians 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.



Then continuing, the prayer is not ceased, for them to be filled with the knowledge of His will, in all wisdom and Spiritual understanding ( the natural man cannot discern to believe) to walk worthy of the Lord, strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, giving thanks to the father who has made us meet to be parttakers of the inheritance of the saints in light ( no man can approach to the light to believe in Christ, unless given by the Son to cause us to approach to Him/ draw us to Him)


This is God DELIVERING US FROM THE POWER OF SATAN OVER US TO THE POWER OF GOD and how God did it..



Psalm 65:4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Colossians 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:




But this is a mystery to all not called to be saints, ( all with the spirit of the god of this deceiving world inside of them instead)

They are natural man who cannot understand the things given us freely by God, ( to be enabled to believe in the heart as seen in Apostle Paul)

Now it is manifested to His saints, the riches of the glory, which is Christ in us, the hope of glory, to present every man perfect in Christ Jesus, whereunto Holy Apostle Paul laboured, striving according to His working, which worked mightily in him..



Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.



Then the fine linen is the righteousness of saints, and if any man teach otherwise ( regarding about how the saints are enabled to believe by the Lord) they do not consent to the wholesome words and to the doctrine according to godliness ( need God in us to believe in godliness) it is because they are proud and know nothing, and they dote about questions and strifes of words, with their envy, strife, railings, evil surmising s, in their perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth..



Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.



1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
 
Upvote 0

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
DaDaBrothers: "Two times have your hears not heard, now for the third time, I will show you (again) how sinners can and do repent by themselves:

Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The sinner is called to repentance, this is how The Shepherd "brings them back to Him", He calls them to repentance, not by "giving them" anything, (as your discernment was wrongly assuming). The spirit and hearth is given to His sheep only. After they repent."




DaDaBrothers, you are giving one verse, and interpreting the rest as you wish it to be.


Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.



See the words in that single verse you have quoted, and given so much private interpretation from.

The words are, Jesus came to call.




Then it comes to pass, whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, in the remnant whom the Lord shall call..



Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.



For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, and how shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?

How shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?

Then who believed the report ?

So then faith comes by hearing ( given ears to hear with) and hearing by the word of God ( the words are Sirit and life and we need that Spirit to give us the understanding to believe)..


Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.




Continuing on the calling, none called for justice, all trusted in lies ( their own private interpretations of Gods word) and God saw there was no man ( calling for justice seeking the Lord) so the Lords own arm brought salvation ( and called us)...



Isaiah 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.

Isaiah 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.



There is none of natural man ( all men on earth) that understand, none seek after God/none called for justice, for the Lord/none had faith on earth.

All fell short of the glory of God ( none sought God all were wicked) now freely justified by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ ( not in any man)..



Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.






Then the Lord is near to all who call upon Him in truth.

The truth is, God searched out His sheep which were going their own way astray...



Psalm 145:18 The Lord is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.

Ezekiel 34:12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.




Then the sheep hear ( by being given ears to hear with now by their Shepherd who sought them) and he calls His own sheep by name, and all natural man who assumes they go to God their own way, by their own faith/strength, find out, they are not His sheep, as His sheep hear His voice to follow after Him ( given ears to hear with or cant approach)

This is the Spirit of truth, that the world cannot receive, to call on the Lord with, because they do not see Him nor hear Him, but the sheep knew Him, who was with them and then dwells in them, as they did not choose Him, He chose them and ordained them..



John 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
 
Upvote 0

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
DaDabrothers: The Holy Ghost is given only to the believer, who repents, and after he has repented.

But you say the sinner "freely receives" eternal life first, and then he can believe.
But the word of God says:"


Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.



Read the words more, and see, that the one who believes on the Son of God has eternal life. Jesus Christ is the eternal life, and that is why the many disciples of Jesus could not believe, as it was not given unto them to believe, so they went away, because the words are Spirit and life, through the Spirit therefore, you believe in the Spirit, to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost..


John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
DaDabrothers: "Your spirit of discernment which you seem unable to resist, is not greater than the word of God. The natural man does indeed repent as it is written"


Luckily for me then, that I speak only by the word of God, and why I can show so much of it.

The natural man cant understand, and to him it is foolishness, and how foolish to think that they believe in foolishness?

Yet, that is the wisdom of this world, their wisdom is turned into foolishness, and that is all they believe in...


1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
 
Upvote 0

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2020
3,825
327
66
Georgia
✟125,375.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
@Dave L
Only the just can be Justified by God, you are not justified just because Christ died for you.
He forgives, you repent and keep the commandmants, then you can be justified as just.
God will not justify sinners.
My God Justified the ungodly Rom 4:5
 
Upvote 0

DaDaBrothers

Active Member
Aug 11, 2021
111
15
25
Corroios
✟4,417.00
Country
Portugal
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
DaDabrothers thinks men come to Christ of their own hearts desire, their own fear of God.

I said men have to repent before they can come to Christ:

Ezekiel 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Why reject the word of God? Only if the wicked turns, can he have eternal life.

They must repent, not wait for God to "gift them repentance for free":

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

The sinner cannot receive anything from God unless he repents first. After he repents God will give him the Spirit, the understanding, the robes, the hearth of flesh and everything.

They are natural man who cannot understand the things given us freely by God, ( to be enabled to believe in the heart as seen in Apostle Paul)

I understand the calling is of God, and the Spirit too, but do you understand repentance is of us? And God only gives the Spirit to those who repent? Not to the sinner "for free".

Do you understand the word of God when it says He will not justify sinners? Nor bribe?
He will never "freely give" righteousness to the natural man, except he repents first.

Not the God of Israel, He wont. So you must be refering to the "unknown God" Paul declared, this abomination of a "god" will, indeed "freely give" (alleged) "righteousness" as a bribe in exchange for sin, and Paul seems to be the only testimony you have of this, which is not enough..

The words are, Jesus came to call.

Yes, Jesus calls sinners to repentance, he doesnt make them repent by force.
Repentance is a free will action of men, and eternal life is for the few that repent:

Matthew 24:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Many are called to repentance, but only few repent. Because man has free will.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
Ezekiel 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.


The wicked cant turn from sins themselves, that is why they need Christ to die for them to turn us from an evil conscience, which stops men repenting, as seen in all the old testament, hence why it is a new covenant..


Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
 
Upvote 0