What's fair?

Hvizsgyak

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I'm lost, Ted. Are you proposing that you don't just live with your religion and positions on issues like abortion, but impose them upon nonChristians?
1) The Constitution clearly states government shall neither prohibit nor endorse any one religion. So, the Constitution makes it impossible to impose Christian values on another from a legal standpoint
2) Why would a Christian ask a nonChristian to follow their religious code? If a Muslim told you to stop eating pork because it is unclean according to the Quran, would you? If not, to then demand it of others isn't loving your neighbor.
3) Why would we as Christians want everyone to follow a Christian code of ethics, rather than hear about Christ?
4) How would we even determine what that code of ethics would look like when Christians hold such different viewpoints?

A friend of mine came over to hang out, and started insisting that abortion was wrong in all instances. When he asked me, I told him that as a gay man, I don't think about it often, bc I will never be in a situation where one of us is pregnant. To say it is always wrong leaves little room for circumstances of, for example, a father impregnated his 11 yr old daughter he is molesting, or rape. In the instance of rape, he asked why the baby should suffer. I asked why the woman should have to relive a trauma with a pregnancy that happened without her consent.,

At some point, I asked him why this concerned him so much. He is also gay, knows no one personally getting an abortion. So, I then asked what he did for the women who kept their babies - was he actively in support of funding for single mothers trying to feed their baby? Was he involved in resources that provide childcare?

Nothing. He really cared about the unborn. Once they are born, he feels done with his job.

Getting back to the OP, I agree that both parties should be held responsible. However, we also need to change our current social views. Some churches preach Purity - saving yourself until marriage, but inly to the girls. For the boys, it's more of a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge." Men are called Romeo, Lady's Man, Stud, while women are called harlots, etc.

Men are taught that having sex with a lot of women shows how great you are with your peers, teaches that the woman is responsible for birth control, and simply by being male, whether fornication is a sin or not, no one will confront you on it.

We also need more support for single mothers, need to stop judging single mothers who chose to keep their baby, nor tell someone if they couldn't afford the child they shouldn't have had them.

What happens in issues that are very emotionally charged is that people on both sides get more caught up in fighting the opposition, than pregnant women themselves.

Check out the movie Citizen Ruth. She gets caught in the battle between ProLife and ProChoice.

Less than 5% of the abortion performed in the US are due to rape, incest or health of the mother; most abortion are performed because it wasn't the right time to have a child. I agree with you 100% though, men have to be more responsible for the creation of a child. Aot of women fall in love with the man and would do anything to keep the relationship good and going. Alot of times, the guy was wants to have sex without much responsibility. Not right. I don't know if I would goes so far as to make them have a temporary vasectomy as the OP suggested but I would prevent young people from having close contact for long periods of time in private.

I also agree that our society needs to do more for the women who are faced with an unexpected pregnancy. One, give them a place to stay where they will get support for their child and themselves. Unfortunately, the men involved in these pregnancies have no job or a very low wage job. So much for financial support but the guy should be made to help support the child by caring for the baby. Now if the guy does have money then make him help with the mother' and child's expenses.

If the guy is a repeat offender then its a permanent vasectomy, sorry, they chose to be a bum.
 
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Hvizsgyak

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Bette Midler Calls For Sex Strike In Wake Of Radical Texas Abortion Crackdown | HuffPost

Now, before anyone gets their tights wrapped up, I do believe that abortion is wrong. However, I also believe that God intended for the sexual union to be between a husband and wife. So, we can pile on a whole bunch of wrongs that lead to this issue of abortion.

Let's start from the beginning of a pregnancy. A man has sexual relations with a woman or visa versa. There are two people involved in the coupling that produces a pregnancy and in many, many cases, obviously, that pregnancy is unwanted by both the man and the woman. Yet, it is only the woman that will be held to a responsibility to carry through with the pregnancy and be responsible for the child. Whether the child is put up for adoption or raised by his mother.

I believe that for the law in Texas to be fair, then what should be done is that any woman who has an unwanted pregnancy must name the man involved. The man, pending DNA verification, must purchase a $100,000 surety bond and provide medical insurance for both the hospital costs and the child until he/she is 18. The $100,000 surety bond would then be used to force the man to pay at least $500.00/month child support for his child, also until the age of 18.

Sadly, because the sexual union is so often used these days, and portrayed in much of our entertainment, as just the way one enjoys the after dinner time, rather than within the confines of a committed marriage, we are always going to have unwanted pregnancies.

Now, we could further the reduction of unwanted pregnancies by making sexually active men undergo a reversible vasectomy until they produce a valid marriage certificate to have the procedure reversed.

That would be more fair. Not just putting all this responsibility of a sexual union, in which two people were involved, on just one of the two.

God bless,
Ted

Its unfortunate that there are alot more irresponsible men in the world today than there use to be. Alot of these women are looking for long term companionship while the guy just wants to be satisfied short term (supposedly looking for Ms Right). I'm not sure I'd go the route of a temporary vasectomy until men found Ms Right but alot of guy just don't have a clear respect for a woman and 1) need to be taught respect and 2) shouldn't be allowed any private time with a woman until they have that respect for women. Health class in addition to teaching sexual relations should also teach the respect for one another as a couple.

Now for the men who are repeat offenders and have gotten a few women pregnant, it time for the permanent vasectomy. And if they can't afford to help financially support the mother and child then they should be made to physically help the mother and child till the child is old enough to go to kindergarten.

I know Christians can't force their religion on nonreligious people but some laws are just common sense and need to be enacted. We have alot of children out there who need guidance, we've got to give it to them or there is going to be more societal chaos in the future. God Bless.
 
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miamited

Ted
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Hi @Hvizsgyak

I'm not sure I'd go the route of a temporary vasectomy until men found Ms Right but alot of guy just don't have a clear respect for a woman and 1) need to be taught respect and 2) shouldn't be allowed any private time with a woman until they have that respect for women. Health class in addition to teaching sexual relations should also teach the respect for one another as a couple.

Well, we've been teaching 'health' classes for a number of years now. But as much as people might study the human relationship 'theoretically', when the hormones get to kicking up, and certainly with all of the entertainment sources that seem to show that a sexual relation is just what you do after dinner and a movie, I don't think we're going to 'teach' our way out of this problem.

Some, such as what you seem to be inferring, want to paint this issue as something 'new' among the male class, but we've pretty obviously been having problems with unwanted pregnancies among females at least since the moral clash of Roe vs. Wade. That was in 1973! That landmark case came about because women were getting abortions even before then to solve the problem of unwanted pregnancies and men were shirking their duties way back then, too.

So, while I think that reversible vasectomies and even reversible tubal ligations should be considered as reasonable alternatives to be advanced to help combat this problem, I also think that some serious monetary funds secured for child support is an absolute must, if we are going to outlaw abortions. If not, we may see mothers killing their babies a lot more than we already do today. I mean, if the woman is going to be stuck with pretty much the entire responsibility of the after affects of these sexual trysts that produce unintended and unwanted pregnancies, there's going to be an escape valve to come up.

Today we have courts, but really pretty much only in divorce cases, who assign some sort of support payment for children. But there isn't really any enforcement and the way we enforce it is counter productive to the needs of the child. WE PUT THE MAN IN JAIL!!!!!! How silly that must really be in helping the man to support his intended and wanted child that he winds up having to lose in a divorce case. I don't think you're going to find many men who will submit to paying continued child support for a child of a woman that he really may not even care about, but was just out having a good time.

I honestly have no earthly idea as to how you're planning on keeping men and women apart in their late teens and through their 20's even if you could identify the one's who don't 'have that respect for women' that you claim we're going to be able to teach men to have. Perhaps you could throw out a few of your suggestions as to how you might actually accomplish in real life and real time this effort to keep some man away from private relationships with a woman that you believe hasn't learned to respect women.

God bless,
Ted
 
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