Has the Church Replaced Israel ?

Carl Emerson · Sep 7, 2021

Dave L said:
Prophecy is always a promise. Whether for wrath or blessing.

Not so...

Prophesy can denote opportunity or warning and not specify outcome.

Dave L · Sep 7, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
Not so...

Prophesy can denote opportunity or warning and not specify outcome.

Conditional promises? Lots of those Israel forfeited long ago. Do you know they forfeited the Land promises before ever reaching Caanan?

Also, the Church is Israel according to Peter.

“You will be to me a kingdom of priests, my holy nation. Those are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.’” Exodus 19:6 (REB)

1 Peter 2:9 Peter proclaims this of the Church showing the Church is Israel.

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV 1900)

bling · Sep 7, 2021

I would say the Spiritual Kingdom replaced what Israel was suppose to be.
Is the Chruch the same as God's kingdom?

Dave L · Sep 7, 2021

bling said:
I would say the Spiritual Kingdom replaced what Israel was suppose to be.
Is the Chruch the same as God's kingdom?

OT says; “You will be to me a kingdom of priests, my holy nation. Those are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.’” Exodus 19:6 (REB)

1 Peter 2:9 Peter proclaims this of the Church showing the Church is Israel.

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV 1900)

Carl Emerson · Sep 7, 2021

Dave L said:
Conditional promises? Lots of those Israel forfeited long ago. Do you know they forfeited the Land promises before ever reaching Caanan?

Also, the Church is Israel according to Peter.

“You will be to me a kingdom of priests, my holy nation. Those are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.’” Exodus 19:6 (REB)

1 Peter 2:9 Peter proclaims this of the Church showing the Church is Israel.

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV 1900)

Of course the Church is the Spiritual Israel.

My question is has God finished with the physical Israel ?

Paul says all physical Israel will come to repentance.

Brightfame52 · Sep 7, 2021

Dave L said:
OT says; “You will be to me a kingdom of priests, my holy nation. Those are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.’” Exodus 19:6 (REB)

1 Peter 2:9 Peter proclaims this of the Church showing the Church is Israel.

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV 1900)

It couldnt be more plainer !

Dave L · Sep 7, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
Of course the Church is the Spiritual Israel.

My question is has God finished with the physical Israel ?

Paul says all physical Israel will come to repentance.

Here's how it works. Circumcision made one a physical member of Israel. When Jesus abolished it on the cross, physical Israel no longer existed after that generation died off. This means Israel is only believers in Christ and the unbelieving Jews are gentiles with Jewish customs.

Clare73 · Sep 7, 2021

Brightfame52 said:
Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

No, The Church has always been Israel, but not Israel after the flesh, or the physical nation of Israel See within the physical nation of Israel was always a remnant according to the election of Grace, which is also Israel. Now under the Old Covenant Spiritual Israel, the Body of Christ was mostly comprised of saved jewish Christians. They would usually be persecuted by the non christian jews in the nation Matt 5:12

Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets[Believers in Crist] which were before you.

Lk 13:34

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Now under the New Covenant, Body of Christ Israel the election of Grace has been multiplied by saving and grafting in multitudes into Spiritual Israel, which is still the Body of Christ ! So The Body of Christ, Israel according to the Spirit, the Election of Grace is not a replacement, it always has been, its now clarified who they are.

All those in Christ are the true seed of Abraham; i.e., believing Israel (Galatians 3:29), the one olive tree of God's people going back to Abraham (Romans 11).

Carl Emerson · Sep 8, 2021

Dave L said:
Here's how it works. Circumcision made one a physical member of Israel. When Jesus abolished it on the cross, physical Israel no longer existed after that generation died off. This means Israel is only believers in Christ and the unbelieving Jews are gentiles with Jewish customs.

Your position does not align with Romans 11

Carl Emerson · Sep 8, 2021

Romans 11
25 For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27 “This is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

28 In relation to the gospel they are enemies on your account, but in relation to God’s choice they are beloved on account of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience, so that He may show mercy to all.

Dave L · Sep 8, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
Your position does not align with Romans 11

Your interpretation of Romans 11 does not align with the doctrine of the church. If you would like to look at your view of Romans point for point I can show where you are wrong.

Carl Emerson · Sep 8, 2021

Dave L said:
Your interpretation of Romans 11 does not align with the doctrine of the church. If you would like to look at your view of Romans point for point I can show where you are wrong.

What church?

Dave L · Sep 8, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
What church?

Believers in Christ. Called the Church and Body of Christ.

Brightfame52 · Sep 8, 2021

The Church, the Body of Christ Israel, are those whom God foreknew, His People. Rom 11:1-2a

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people[Israel] which he foreknew.

The casting away of the nation of israel was not God casting away His People Israel the Church, the Body of Christ, the remnant according to the election of grace. Remember Paul had just wrote in Rom 9:67

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel[foreknew], which are of Israel[national:

Those whom He foreknew in Christ to be conformed to His Image, is the Israel the Body of Christ Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This verse Identifies Israel, no not the ethnic nation, but the people of God Israel, the Children of God Israel

Glory2TheLamb · Sep 8, 2021

To come to the conclusion that the "church" has replaced Israel as a people, you would have to ignore almost every book of the prophets.

Doug Brents · Sep 8, 2021

Glory2TheLamb said:
To come to the conclusion that the "church" has replaced Israel as a people, you would have to ignore almost every book of the prophets.

Not at all. You only have to ignore those books if you interpret them, as the Pharisees did, based on temporal fulfillment as opposed to spiritual fulfillment.

If you understand that the prophecies’ fulfillment will be spiritual, then the Church (the spiritual Body of Christ) is the fulfillment of those prophecies.

Glory2TheLamb · Sep 8, 2021

Doug Brents said:
Not at all. You only have to ignore those books if you interpret them, as the Pharisees did, based on temporal fulfillment as opposed to spiritual fulfillment.

If you understand that the prophecies’ fulfillment will be spiritual, then the Church (the spiritual Body of Christ) is the fulfillment of those prophecies.

I disagree. I believe the church have pushed the Jews aside and have read themselves into those texts. There are MANY prophecies about Israel that have not been fulfilled. By the way, what you just said can not be found anywhere in the NT.

Dave L · Sep 8, 2021

Glory2TheLamb said:
I disagree. I believe the church have pushed the Jews aside and have read themselves into those texts. There are MANY prophecies about Israel that have not been fulfilled. By the way, what you just said can not be found anywhere in the NT.

You do not believe scripture in the matter of the Church. Try this on and see how you do with it.

The Old Testament says; “You will be to me a kingdom of priests, my holy nation. Those are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.’” Exodus 19:6 (REB)

1 Peter 2:9 Peter proclaims this speaks of the Church showing the Church is Israel.

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV 1900)

Glory2TheLamb · Sep 8, 2021

Dave L said:
You do not believe scripture in the matter of the Church. Try this on and see how you do with it.

The Old Testament says; “You will be to me a kingdom of priests, my holy nation. Those are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.’” Exodus 19:6 (REB)

1 Peter 2:9 Peter proclaims this speaks of the Church showing the Church is Israel.

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV 1900)

This shows that the church has been GRAFTED IN, not that Israel has been replaced.

Doug Brents · Sep 8, 2021

Glory2TheLamb said:
This shows that the church has been GRAFTED IN, not that Israel has been replaced.

Israel has not been replaced.

It appears so, because there are vastly more Gentile Christians than there are Jewish Christians, but the trunk of the tree (and the roots) remain the same. Just because almost all the branches of the original tree have been cut off, and almost all the branches that exist today are grafted in, doesn’t change the fact that it is still the same tree.

Has the Church Replaced Israel ?

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