Open Borders and Anti-American Citizens (for Christians only to respond)

miamited said:

I don't think that God has any problem with someone being born and sometime throughout their life making their home in China, Africa, Europe or somewhere on the North American continent. He will, because of His great love, provide for them wherever they live upon His earth.

However, here in the U.S. (and some other nations) grown fearful that 'those who are not like us' will take our stuff. Oh, and BTW, while some are touting the great accomplishments of the former guy...keep in mind that he generally filled his resorts and hotels with cheaply paid, and no benefit receiving, immigrant labor. So, if you care to pick someone as the poster child in dealing with immigration...don't pick him.

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Today's winner.

Old Lady said:

Are you for or against open borders?

Is God going to save everyone or only those who meet the requirements? Does the word world mean every person on earth? Will there be any unsaved persons?

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I am against “ Open border’. But that is a political issue and not a “Biblical teaching”. You support closed border, so do I . But it has nothing to do Bible. You are trying to find Scripture to support your idea, but there is none.

N.T. teaching clearly break barriers, remove any division. N.T. teaching has only two type of people ; believer and None believer.

Regarding John 3:16 – there will be lot a people who are unsaved at the end, but that has nothing to do with nationality and everything to do with who accepted Christ or not. Fact is Jon 3:16 says God offered his one and only son to everyone in the WORLD.

RDKirk said:

Do you think most of those coming over the border are drug cartel and human traffickers?

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Hi @RDKirk,

Don't forget murderers and rapists. They can't be christians.

God bless,
Ted

With regard to borders....

RDKirk said: ↑
Do you think most of those coming over the border are drug cartel and human traffickers?

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These guys didn't come over the border...


They're the new face of the republican party.

Old Lady said:

If you are a Christian, you need to recognize that God chose your dwelling place within certain borders. He established boundaries.


2 Chronicles 7
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Our politics are intertwined with our faith.

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This is the sad reality of American Christianity. From the dawn of American democracy, American Christians had an illusion that God founded America as the chosen Nation like Israel to spread the Gospel and fight against Ungodliness. This concept is not only unbiblical, but it is dangerously misguided.

In the Old Testament God had an objective; Send his Son to the World. To fulfill his objective, God had to choose a nation, a nation to prepare for His son to born and became savior of the WORLD. Therefor God had to build nation and create boundaries for Nation of Israel.

But when God’s Son came to the WORD, that objective changed and God offered His Son for the whole world. Jesus, the Son of God, broke barriers, broke boundaries and brought Jews and Gentiles in same fold. No longer apply the concept of Jews and Gentiles, but those who believe in Him ( the son) are called children of God/ Citizen of Kingdom of God.

I am sorry, Faith and politics are not intertwined . If you are in Christ, you live in the world but you are not from the world.

2 Chronicles 7: 14 it is about faith and trust in the Lord , nothing , absolutely nothing to do with Nations. Most often when scripture use the term “ My People” it is about “people who Trust God” , nothing to do with Nationality.

In post #66 you talk about Romans 9 . Again Romans 9 is talking about the “ heart of Man” , nothing to do with nationality or boundary.

After N.T. the only boundary God created is "believer" and "non-believer".

Old Lady said:

If you are a Christian, you need to recognize that God chose your dwelling place within certain borders. He established boundaries.

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It's always a bad idea to add one's personal inclinations to scripture.

Hi old lady,

Old Lady said:

If you are a Christian, you need to recognize that God chose your dwelling place within certain borders. He established boundaries.

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Part of that statement is true and can be proven through the Scriptures. Yes, God has established all of the authorities upon the face of the globe. Those various authorities rule over particular geographical locations upon the globe. However, I think you're going to be hard pressed to then show Scriptural proof that God chooses a person's dwelling place. Can you?

Let's see some Scripture that addresses this idea that God chooses each individual's place that he calls his home...and that such a place is immovable throughout that person's life. Is there any chance in your way of thinking that those coming across our borders are being moved by God? Maybe God is trying to teach the U.S. to let go of some of its greed and patriotism and trust more on His good and perfect will. The Scriptures do say that God uses the foolish things of this world for His purposes.

God bless

miamited said:

Hi old lady,



Part of that statement is true and can be proven through the Scriptures. Yes, God has established all of the authorities upon the face of the globe. Those various authorities rule over particular geographical locations upon the globe. However, I think you're going to be hard pressed to then show Scriptural proof that God chooses a person's dwelling place. Can you?

Let's see some Scripture that addresses this idea that God chooses each individual's place that he calls his home...and that such a place is immovable throughout that person's life. Is there any chance in your way of thinking that those coming across our borders are being moved by God? Maybe God is trying to teach the U.S. to let go of some of its greed and patriotism and trust more on His good and perfect will. The Scriptures do say that God uses the foolish things of this world for His purposes.

God bless

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I am leery about asking people to back up their point of view with scripture. Even though “Every word of God is given by inspiration”, most dangerous part of understanding scripture is when we pick and chose scripture to support our “Point of View” rather then trying to understand God’s point of view from Genesis to Revelation.

If I were a Christian jihadist, I could find enough scriptures to back up my POV, if I were anti-abortion and want to take that to extreme and kill all doctors who want to perform abortion, I can find enough scripture to support my POV. But that doesn’t make it Biblical.

The OP will find enough scripture to support his/her theory. There are enough verses in the Bible to support “ Chosen Nation” , “Chosen People” , “Blessed Nation” , but that wouldn’t make it Biblical. To support “ chosen Nation” theory in today, one must completely ignore / change the New Testament Covenant and why Old Testament covenant was necessary before Christ.

Tiberius Lee said:

ke it Biblical.

The OP will find enough scripture to support his/her theory. There are enough verses in the Bible to support “ Chosen Nation” , “Chosen People” , “Blessed Nation” , but that wouldn’t make it Biblical. To support “ chosen Nation” theory in today, one must completely ignore / change the New Testament Covenant and why Old Testament covenant was necessary before Christ.

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Also they must ignore the fact that in the Old Testament, scripture explicitly defines the physical boundaries of His "Chosen Nation"...and it's not the United States.

And then in 1 Peter, scripture explicitly defines God's "chosen people"...and that's not by physical boundaries, but makes a great point of asserting that His chosen people are not defined by physical boundaries.

RDKirk said:

And then in 1 Peter, scripture explicitly defines God's "chosen people"...and that's not by physical boundaries, but makes a great point of asserting that His chosen people are not defined by physical boundaries.

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Yes. Today's winner.

God says explicitly:

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

@Tiberius Lee @RDKirk

I appreciate your input, however, I'm not sure that either of those bits of Scriptures that you referenced might be used, discuss this issue that everyone is born and assigned by God the place on the face of the earth where they must habitate and anyone leaving that assigned place is working against God or somehow sinning. The poster in question seems to have found a way through Scripture to support that people moving across a geographical border from their home to establish a new home is somehow against the Scriptures. Quite frankly, even with Israel, the great diaspora was exactly that. Jews were being forced out of their homeland and wound up all over Europe. Many landed in Germany and Poland where they were summarily executed by the Nazi regime. But many went to other nations where they lived reasonably peaceful lives. Although I don't think the Jews have ever lived completely peaceful lives among all the nations. Even in the U.S. there is quite a bit of open Semitism.

We'll see what she comes up with.

God bless,
Ted

miamited said:

@Tiberius Lee @RDKirk

I appreciate your input, however, I'm not sure that either of those bits of Scriptures that you referenced might be used, discuss this issue that everyone is born and assigned by God the place on the face of the earth where they must habitate and anyone leaving that assigned place is working against God or somehow sinning.

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I am arguing the opposite, particularly with the first two chapters of 1 Peter. 1 Peter clearly lays out that the Christian is not native to any earthly nation.

Old Lady said:

Likewise, implying that the OP doesn't know God's intent or plan such as your supposed correct interpretation, is definitely rude.

Who created multiple languages?

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God created multiple language because of the sinful nature of man. He did not create multiple language to bless one group from another

Genesis chapter 11

1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

3 They said to each other, 'Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly.' They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, 'Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.'

5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The LORD said, 'If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.'

8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel --because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

Old Lady said:

You are not my God, nor is it my responsibility to convert you.

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And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned

miamited said:

@Tiberius Lee @RDKirk

I appreciate your input, however, I'm not sure that either of those bits of Scriptures that you referenced might be used, discuss this issue that everyone is born and assigned by God the place on the face of the earth where they must habitate and anyone leaving that assigned place is working against God or somehow sinning. The poster in question seems to have found a way through Scripture to support that people moving across a geographical border from their home to establish a new home is somehow against the Scriptures. Quite frankly, even with Israel, the great diaspora was exactly that. Jews were being forced out of their homeland and wound up all over Europe. Many landed in Germany and Poland where they were summarily executed by the Nazi regime. But many went to other nations where they lived reasonably peaceful lives. Although I don't think the Jews have ever lived completely peaceful lives among all the nations. Even in the U.S. there is quite a bit of open Semitism.

We'll see what she comes up with.

God bless,
Ted

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Thanks for the post. The OP’s theory is “everyone is born and assigned by God the place on the face of the earth where they must habitate and anyone leaving that assigned place is working against God”

Even Jesus himself failed to abide by this logic. Jesus was born in Bethlehem, then he and his family moved to Egypt. Most likely Jesus and his family lived in Egypt illegally because they would try to avoid authority to know where they reside, and then Jesus and his family came back to Nazareth ( not his birth place). After 30+ years Jesus went to Haven, again leaving the place where he was born.