"JUSTIFICATION": to the wicked, or to the just?

DaDaBrothers said:

First let me show you a verse from Brenton's Septuagint Translation:
Exodus 23:7 Thou shalt abstain from every unjust thing: thou shalt not slay the innocent and just, and thou shalt not justify the wicked for gifts.

In this translation it is a commandment, to not justify the wicked. And "for gifts" is a reference to bribery. As we should not accept "free gifts" they are bribery. 8"Do not accept bribe[...]". At least in this context of justification.

In NLT it reads: "[...]I never declare a guilty person to be innocent." The "I" is refering to the God of Israel, and in other translations it says He will not justify the wicked.

And this "wicked" is anyone who breaks God's Law: sinners, guilty, ungodly are all synonyms commonly used, and can be found in Strong's. These are the people God won't justify.
Woe to them:
Isaiah 5:22 Woe to the strong ones of you that drink wine, and the mighty ones that mingle strong drink:
23who justify the ungodly for rewards, and take away the righteousness of the righteous.

Here we see that, it is the sinners that justify the ungodly, not God, and these sinners justify the ungodly "for rewards" or for a bribe.

We also have this verse from NASB:
Proverbs 17:15 One who justifies the wicked and one who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

It is evident the true God of Israel will not justify the sinner, neither the wicked, nor the ungodly. Not only that, but anyone who does, is probably a sinner who did it for a reward, and they are all an abomination to the LORD.

And now we have this verse, I took from Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not labor, but believes only in The One who justifies sinners, is his faith accounted for righteousness.

Excuse me, what? "The One who justifies sinners"? Who would that be?
Surely it isn't the God of Israel, who said He will not justify sinners, and He cannot contradict Himself.
Keep in mind this is to "the one who does not labor" meaning the sinners who do not keep the works of the Law, like the commandments. To them it is "credited" righteousness, almost like a "free gift", reminds me of bribery. And all they have to do is believe on "the one who justifies sinners".

So who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

Click to expand...

The problem is in the novel doctrine of Sola Fide, or in its misuse in any case.When God justifies the sinner He truly justifies him; He makes him just- rather than merely declaring him to be just. This is something God, alone, can do; we have no righteousness of our own apart from Him. He forgives, washes, cleanses, makes us new creations now empowered by the Spirit, God’s life in us, to finally live as He created us to. He ‘puts His law in our minds and writes it on our hearts’ (Jer 31:33). He pours love into our hearts (Rom 5:5). Etc.

The basis of the New Covenant: “Apart from Me you can do nothing.” (John 15:5). We enter fellowship, relationship, communion with God via faith, and from there, to the extent that we remain in Him and He in us, man’s righteousness is attained, nurtured, and grown.

Part 1.



DaDaBrothers, this is for you, as you told us, at the end of the thread that was deleted, you considered Apostle Paul, to maybe not be a true Apostle.

I noticed you quote Hebrews before, in support of what you believe things to be, so I am quoting some Hebrews, but I am answering with nothing more from he Epistles, just for you to see.


Here was that example of you not recognizing Romans 4:5, which shows faith is counted as righteousness faith to believe that Christ died and rose for our sins)..


Prophecy: "Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."



DaDaBrothers: "Nope, Jesus does not justify the wicked, if you say He does you are calling Him an abomination. Sinners justify the wicked. Jesus is not a sinner He is the Son of God, and His Father said He will not justify the wicked."


Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.






The law generally said, to justify the righteous, by giving him according to his righteousness.

Then we know the testimony of the Lord in Psalms, how there was none that did good.

God looked to see if anybody understood, which is seeking God, but all were gone aside, and filthy, there was none that did good, no, not one..





2 Chronicles 6:23 Then hear thou from heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, by requiting the wicked, by recompensing his way upon his own head; and by justifying the righteous, by giving him according to his righteousness.


Psalm 14: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.





First, I want to point out, that the prophets who spoke of the Lord coming to earth and His sufferings, and of His grace toward us, was by the Spirit of Christ, which was in them....



1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.





DaDaBrothers, pay close attention, this is a complete research into your question, justification to the wicked, or to the just?

We know the just shall live by his faith ( the faith of Christ as faith is by the Spirit)






Now pay attention to this example of Job for us ( as is confirmed in James) and try to see, if you can see, if Job's soul was lifted up, and then not upright in him, and James confirms the trying of our faith ( as Jobs faith was tried) works that patience, and we let patience have her perfect work ( within us by the Spirit) to be perfect and entire and want nothing, as we heard of the patience ( trying) of Job, and to the ones who endure then the Lord is pitiful ( we need to endure to the end to be saved too)..




Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

James 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.






Now, Job, the perfect and upright man, one that feared God, declares himself as the just man, laughed to scorn, and mocked of his neighbour....



Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Job 12:4 I am as one mocked of his neighbour, who calleth upon God, and he answereth him: the just upright man is laughed to scorn.




Now go through all the way to the end of the mocking and defending of Job, and Job is answered finally, by one that was made by the Spirit of God, who Job cannot and does not answer a word in return, as this one speaks in Gods stead, as Job also had requested.


Job then said, he was without transgression, innocent( just) and complained against God, and this was returned answer now, that Job is not just in this, as God is the just one. (Acts 3:14, 7:52, 22:14)


It is told to Job, that the desire is to justify Job ( who was being unjust now, thinking he is more righteous than God)

Job cannot condemn Him that is most just. God does not hate right, and governs in righteousness. ( no injustice in the Lord)





Job 33:4 The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
5 If thou canst answer me, set thy words in order before me, stand up.
6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.

Job 33:8 Surely thou hast spoken in mine hearing, and I have heard the voice of thy words, saying,
9 I am clean without transgression, I am innocent; neither is there iniquity in me.
10 Behold, he findeth occasions against me, he counteth me for his enemy,
11 He putteth my feet in the stocks, he marketh all my paths.
12 Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.

Job 33:32 If thou hast anything to say, answer me: speak, for I desire to justify thee.

Job 34:5 For Job hath said, I am righteous: and God hath taken away my judgment.

Job 34:17 Shall even he that hateth right govern? and wilt thou condemn him that is most just?

Job 35:2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?




The Lord God directly repeats the same to Job, and Job finally answers, they were things too wonderful for him to understand or to know, now God declared all to Job ( and to man) and then Job ( and all men should) abhor themselves, and repent in dust and ashes...


Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.





This is continued for you DaDaBrothers in Hebrews ( as I said I would mention)

All the examples of the prophets( the ones who had the Spirit of Christ to have faith) did not receive our promises, as God provided ( through the rising of the dead of Christ) some better thing for us, and they without us were not made perfect, which answers how, the spirits of just men are made perfect...




Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Hebrews 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,








DaDaBrothers: "The difference is Justified (in the eyes of God), only the just can be justified.
And justified (in their own eyes), sinners justified by man, not God."



Pay attention again DaDaBrothers, it is your own question, do you care I am answering for you in all detail ?


You say the just are justified ( so far we saw no just, we saw when tried, they were unjust)


So God judges man according to mans righteousness, the integrity in them ( but what integrity do they have until something better which is the perfect/Christ formed in us ?)

The meek inherit the earth, and the wicked resist against the just.

But that the Lord does not enter judgment ( as seen with Job) with His servant, for in God's sight, then no man living shall be justified ( neither just nor unjust, but the Lord had tender mercy to Job/forgiveness for him being unjust against the just one, Lord God)...



Psalm 7:8 The Lord shall judge the people: judge me, O Lord, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.
9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.
11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

Psalm 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.

Psalm 143:2 And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified.

Part 2.



Here are Proverbs for you now, DaDaBrothers, God blesses the just, His grace is to the lowly.

The path of the just shines, the wicked are in darkness.

Teaching the just man he increases learning, and the fear of the Lord is his beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy will be his understanding ( the just had none of this before that)

The just has blessing, and the wise in heart will receive commandments, but a fool shall fall...




Proverbs 3:32 For the froward is abomination to the Lord: but his secret is with the righteous.
33 The curse of the Lord is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.
34 Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.

Proverbs 4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.

Proverbs 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Proverbs 10:6 Blessings are upon the head of the just: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.
7 The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall rot.
8 The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.



The tongue of the just feeds many, fools want for wisdom, ( they are not just if they do not begin in knowledge of the Lord)

Those wicked are little worth, and the mouth of the just bring forth wisdom.

Through knowledge ( of Christ rising from the dead to life for us) are the just delivered ( from dead in sins) ..




Proverbs 10:19 In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise.
20 The tongue of the just is as choice silver: the heart of the wicked is little worth.
21 The lips of the righteous feed many: but fools die for want of wisdom.

Proverbs 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.
31 The mouth of the just bringeth forth wisdom: but the froward tongue shall be cut out.
32 The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable: but the mouth of the wicked speaketh frowardness.

Proverbs 11:9 An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbour: but through knowledge shall the just be delivered.
10 When it goeth well with the righteous, the city rejoiceth: and when the wicked perish, there is shouting.




The wicked are snared, and the just come out of that trouble ( of death, and death by sinning/unrighteousness by no good conscience)

No evil then happens to the just, and the man of understanding ( by Christs Spirit of fear given) is of an excellent spirit, and the fool ( a just one) is counted wise to be esteemed a man of understanding when they are quiet ( as Job was ) to the rebuke of the Lord..



Proverbs 12:13 The wicked is snared by the transgression of his lips: but the just shall come out of trouble.

Proverbs 12:21 There shall no evil happen to the just: but the wicked shall be filled with mischief.

Proverbs 17:26 Also to punish the just is not good, nor to strike princes for equity.
27 He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit.
28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.





But most men proclaim their own goodness ( as just Job did then became not just, as he accused the just ONE) and who can find the faithful man ? Psalm 12 confirms, the faithful fail from among the children of men, they speak vanity, every one...




Psalm 12:1 Help, Lord; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.
2 They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.

Proverbs 20:6 Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find?
7 The just man walketh in his integrity: his children are blessed after him.






But the regenerated just, do judgement ( Christ brought and revealed that judgment or no just man can do justice/judgement)


The unjust are abomination to the just, and the upright are abomination to the wicked..




Proverbs 21:15 It is joy to the just to do judgment: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.

Proverbs 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Proverbs 29:27 An unjust man is an abomination to the just: and he that is upright in the way is abomination to the wicked.




Pay attention again DaDaBrothers ( or do not)

Here is the vanity of man ( man at his best state is ALTOGETHER VANITY, so where is the just?)


The just man perishes, and we are not to consider ourselves righteous over much, fear God, to come forth of all, it is wisdom that strengthens the wise, ( the wisdom and fear of the Lord to begin the knowledge of Christ for salvation to justify many/Isaiah 53:11)

For there is NOT A JUST MAN UPON EARTH, that does good, and sins not...




Psalm 39:5 Behold, thou hast made my days as an handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee: verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah.

Ecclesiastes 7:15 All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness.
16 Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself ?
17 Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time?
18 It is good that thou shouldest take hold of this; yea, also from this withdraw not thine hand: for he that feareth God shall come forth of them all.
19 Wisdom strengtheneth the wise more than ten mighty men which are in the city.
20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.





Now read and see the testimonies, ( they are simple and will fall on you if you go near them to wrest them)

If a man be just, to do what is right, to walk in the statutes of the Lord, to keep His judgements, to do truly, they are just, they shall live.....



Ezekiel 18:5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,
7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;
8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,
9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord God.




If the wicked turns from all his sins, to keep the statutes of the Lord, to do what is right, he shall live, he shall not die...



Ezekiel 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.




But when the righteous ( the man that was just, to do truly) turns away from his righteousness ( justice) to commit iniquity, and do as the wicked, in his sin that he has done he shall die, ( his righteousness/justice is not remembered) and again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness, to do that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive...




Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.




Then the Lord ( in the new covenant to us) sprinkles clean water upon us, to clean us from all of that filthiness ( of the wicked and just) and cleanses us, from our idols, giving us the new heart, and putting His new Spirit within us, and causes us ( all wicked and just) to walk in His statutes, to keep His judgments and to do them ( then all are just together as one)

Who is wise, to understand these things ? The ways of the Lord are right, the just shall walk in them ( they are just when they walk in them and are unjust until they do) but transgressors fall in them and under the Word too..




Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Hosea 14:9 Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the Lord are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.






Now, disobedient come to the wisdom of the just, this is making the people prepared for the Lord..




Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.





Last one to pay attention to DaDaBrothers, Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations ( remembering ll those without us were not made perfect, but some better thing did, which is Christ formed in us/rising from the dead for us to see and believe in)

Now, Christ suffered for us, for our sins, and this is testified as: THE JUST FOR THE UNJUST, which brought us to God ( some better hope did bring perfection.) This is the quickening of the Spirit, preached to the dead ( dead in sins, in the prison of the devil) who were disobedient, and the baptism saves us, as before the world of water was flooded and condemned, now there is no condemnation to those in Christ, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ and a conscience that avoids the flood that came on all ( and how this worlds ends now, the same as the days of Noah as Jesus told in the Gospel for the ending, I did not see one with a conscience yet and no faith on earth when the Lord returns as all are full of talk, and cares of their own lives/selves)..





Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Genesis 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

DaDa: "Everyone has sins to be cleansed, and if they walk in the light the Son will cleanse them from all sin, making them without any sin, they just can’t speak of themselves.


You do remember your thread assertion, of justification to the wicked OR, to the just ?

But now you say, everyone has sins to be cleansed, and if they ( everyone) walk in the light, the Son cleanses them from all sin.

DaDa: " If you don’t want to waste time you better walk in the Light, because if you are in darkness you might end up wasting all your time, wasting your eternity."


This shows strife purpose/hypocrisy? Because your whole idea is that the wicked cant be justified by God, yet your own words/advice is, for the ones in darkness to walk in the light. Do you think darkness is not wickedness then?


1 Samuel 2:9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

Proverbs 4:19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

DaDaBrothers said:

No, first He causes them to walk in His statues. There is a change, there is repentance, then they keep His commandments and walk in the Light, therefore can be cleansed and it is only after all of this that they can be justified, because they are no longer sinners.

Click to expand...

Um, that's what I said. He justifes us-makes us just-otherwise we would remain sinners. We can't free ourselves from sin, on our own.

fhansen said: "When God justifies the sinner"




DaDa: "The "When" is never. God never justifies the sinner:
Exodus 23:7 (NLT) "[...]I never declare a guilty person to be innocent."


God is talking about his justice ( in the law which is curse if they continue not in them?)

Or talking abut the justification of the sinner ( through Christ) in Exodus 23?


Exodus 23:6 Thou shalt not wrest the judgment of thy poor in his cause.
7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
8 And thou shalt take no gift: for the gift blindeth the wise, and perverteth the words of the righteous.



Hanson: "He truly justifies him; He makes him just"


DaDa: "No, first He causes them to walk in His statues. There is a change, there is repentance, then they keep His commandments and walk in the Light, therefore can be cleansed and it is only after all of this that they can be justified, because they are no longer sinners."



If God causes them , then they were just or unjust ?

They walked not in light, so were in darkness ( this is just you say, or the unjust?)


The filthy, that are uncleansed ( you say these are just, or are the unjust/wicked?)

The ones who were sinners ( you say these are the just, or sounds more like the unjust and the wicked?)

I answered in 2 parts in all detail,,if the people here have no decency to read on the topic they are involved in, maybe they make a mistake, seeing as I also have answered t every thread in the salvation section, so nobody can miss a thing, and they cannot ignore everything. But it shows ( to me at least) that the testimony is told, and who is faithful to even read it.

Hanson: "He justifes us-makes us just"



DaDa: "No, first you have to repent and be baptised, then you are no longer a sinner you walk in the light therefore can be cleansed and only after this can you be justified by God. Justificacion is a point in time, not a process, like the point in time the perfect Judge strikes with the hammer on the table and declares you justified from that point in time onwards."



Justification is when the judge decides then, and the judge can reform the criminal too if He wants to ( wicked/those in darkness)



Hanson: "We can't free ourselves from sin, on our own."


DaDa: "We can't? You have no free will? Do we tell sinners to repent? Or to just wait for God to save them because there is nothing they can do?
We tell them to repent because God cannot justify them unless they turn away from sin and come to the Light, by their own free will."



Sinners are exhorted to save themselves from the wrath to come, because it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God, and if they are appointed to belief, they repent.



Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.





No man can come to the light by their own free will, as there shall no man see the Lord and live..




Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

DaDaBrothers, now that everyone can understand what it is you believe in, can you show some verses that show free will ?

Seeing as I have read only the bible, my whole life, do you want some time to think about his before you might try to answer/show some verses?

Prophecy: "the judge can reform the criminal too"



DaDa: "A judge on earth can justify criminals, but the Perfect Judge in heaven cannot justify sinners.
Because Gods Judgement is perfect, and He cannot justify unless they are just indeed."


I said reform on purpose, because it is the time of reformation that came on us through Christ/regeneration/renewing.

Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;