the standard of righteousness

Doug: "First, Christ died for everyone. There is no one that does not fall under John 3:16 or 2 Pet 3:9."



Here is a challenge for you Doug.

2 Peter 3, is more than verse 9, is that acceptable for you ?



First, we see in 1 Peter 2, how the ones who believe, know Christ is precious, but the builders disallowed the stone, and He is a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence unto them. This is to them who stumble at the word, being disobedient, as they were appointed, as seen in the builders and as seen in all who are appointed to stumble too..




1 Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.




Now looking at what else chapter 3, of 2 Peter says, first that the Lord is not willing that any should perish, but that all come to repentance.

This then shows the meaning in the chapter for you Doug ?

"what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,"

"be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless."

Because remembering 1 Peter above how the builders were appointed to wrath, and stumbling, the scriptures are hard to be understood by those who ( are appointed ) to wrest against them ( then stumble) to their own destruction, and seeing we know all these things now, we beware so we do not be led away with that error of the wicked, so do not fall from our own stedfastness..



2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Brightfame: "Christ died for everyone whose sins have been purged away, which is their Justification."


Their justification is also their glorification, to no longer fall short of the glory of God, to glorify God in our body and in our spirit which are God's..


Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified

1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Brightfame52 said:

Christ died for everyone whose sins have been purged away, which is their Justification.

Click to expand...

Bright, I wash my hands of you. You refuse to see the truth, even when it is laid out plainly for you.

Christ died for ALL. Not just those who believe, but everyone. His blood is sufficient for the sins of the whole world. But those who do not hear His Word, or those who disbelieve His Word do not receive the benefit of that sufficiency.

You are firmly committed, and for that I commend you. But, you are committed to a false doctrine, and for that I can only pity you.

Doug: "Christ died for ALL. Not just those who believe, but everyone. His blood is sufficient for the sins of the whole world. But those who do not hear His Word, or those who disbelieve His Word do not receive the benefit of that sufficiency."


Yes Christ is sufficient for the whole world, but we understand it is many called, few chosen, and Him doing the calling, not we who called ourselves, not the sheep seeking the Shepherd, but the Shepherd seeking them, we understand the devil laid the tares, but the Son of God, His good seed, even to them it was given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to others it was not given.




You do see your own words there Doug?



"Not just those who believe, but everyone"

"those who disbelieve His Word do not receive the benefit of that sufficiency"



So, it either is just to those who believe, OR, those who disbelieve too ?

Yes, we will go with the one way, that those who believe are saved ( and faith is the gift of God, it is the faith OF CHRIST)

Doug Brents said:

Bright, I wash my hands of you. You refuse to see the truth, even when it is laid out plainly for you.

Christ died for ALL. Not just those who believe, but everyone. His blood is sufficient for the sins of the whole world. But those who do not hear His Word, or those who disbelieve His Word do not receive the benefit of that sufficiency.

You are firmly committed, and for that I commend you. But, you are committed to a false doctrine, and for that I can only pity you.

Click to expand...

Suite yourself, but it appears to me you cant see clearly that those Christ died for, their sins have been purged away. Its crystal clear Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

And that's Salvation my friend ! Pity those whose sins havent been purged away !

Bright; "Suite yourself, but it appears to me you cant see clearly that those Christ died for, their sins have been purged away. Its crystal clear Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

And that's Salvation my friend ! Pity those whose sins havent been purged away !"


Actually salvation, is all that was told , which gives us the word to believe in, and the Spirit to believe by..

John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

prophecy_uk said:

Doug: "Christ died for ALL. Not just those who believe, but everyone. His blood is sufficient for the sins of the whole world. But those who do not hear His Word, or those who disbelieve His Word do not receive the benefit of that sufficiency."


Yes Christ is sufficient for the whole world, but we understand it is many called, few chosen, and Him doing the calling, not we who called ourselves, not the sheep seeking the Shepherd, but the Shepherd seeking them, we understand the devil laid the tares, but the Son of God, His good seed, even to them it was given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to others it was not given.




You do see your own words there Doug?



"Not just those who believe, but everyone"

"those who disbelieve His Word do not receive the benefit of that sufficiency"



So, it either is just to those who believe, OR, those who disbelieve too ?

Yes, we will go with the one way, that those who believe are saved ( and faith is the gift of God, it is the faith OF CHRIST)

Click to expand...

You are scrambling what Scripture says.

There is a huge difference between Christ’s death paying the penalty for our sins, and being forgiven of those sins.

Christ died to pay the penalty for ALL sin of everyone.

But only those who believe in Him will be forgiven.

I am now one of God’s children, a member of the Body of Christ. But when I was young, I was lost in sin (as were each of you reading this forum). Scripture is clear that everyone was lost. We don’t receive the grace of God before we believe. We receive it ONLY when we are obedient to the Gospel.

Doug: "Christ died to pay the penalty for ALL sin of everyone.

But only those who believe in Him will be forgiven."



The prayer of Christ is for the ones the Father gives the Son ( His sheep)

John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.




Doug: "I am now one of God’s children, a member of the Body of Christ. But when I was young, I was lost in sin (as were each of you reading this forum). Scripture is clear that everyone was lost. We don’t receive the grace of God before we believe. We receive it ONLY when we are obedient to the Gospel."


Yes God came to seek His lost sheep, but not to find the fat and the strong, and we can only be obedient by the obedience of Christ the faith of Christ granted us/the Holy Spirit given by which we hear by...

Ezekiel 34:16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.


John 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

prophecy_uk said:

…and we can only be obedient by the obedience of Christ the faith of Christ granted us/the Holy Spirit given by which we hear by...

Click to expand...

Indeed, we hear the Word. And we either believe it, or not. Christ has done what only He could do: shed His blood to purify our sin stained soul.
Now, if God’s will we’re the only will that mattered in terms of salvation, then there would be none lost, since God wills that none should perish, but all come to repentance (2 Per 3:9). So if there are any lost (and we know the vast majority will be), it is contrary to the will of God.
Whose will then is it that causes some to be lost? Satan’s will, and the will of the lost.
Why?
Because God set certain conditions upon the reception of His grace, namely faith. So without faith we will not receive His grace.

Doug: "Now, if God’s will we’re the only will that mattered in terms of salvation, then there would be none lost, since God wills that none should perish, but all come to repentance (2 Per 3:9). So if there are any lost (and we know the vast majority will be), it is contrary to the will of God.
Whose will then is it that causes some to be lost? Satan’s will, and the will of the lost.
Why?
Because God set certain conditions upon the reception of His grace, namely faith. So without faith we will not receive His grace."


Then, we see in the old world flooded, all were lost, and none were saved but Noah ( and His family)

Why did Noah only have faith ? Because Hod only needed one to preach righteousness, give the warning message, then condemn the world for faithlessness/evil.

Now, grace is more, the grace of Christ still has few, but the same way, as Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord, so some do now too, and then no such thing invented as Gods will replaced by satan, but now Gods will is done and satans will/.voice is drowned out.


Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


None of His sheep are lost, why else would he come to find them.

Randy: "Paul said that he had not yet attained to that for which Christ obtained him"



Then read again this time seeing FAITH.


The Gentiles HAVE ATTAINED TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, EVEN THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH...



Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.



Continuing from that understanding/testimony.


"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus."

The Gentiles have attained to the righteousness which is of Christ ( perfect righteousness)


"Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you."


The ones who are not thus minded, are revealed by God to be division makers.



"Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing."


Then we have already attained, and they all mind the same thing ( to press forward to Christ without looking back)




Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.



We draw nigh to God by Christ, the perfect offering for us, by that one offering He perfects for ever them that are sanctified in Christ, which is the spirits of just men made perfect, the Father in the Son, and the Son in us, all made perfect in one together..



Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.