IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH?

ShineyDays2

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However, Paul was not an ethnic Jew.

Wikipedia: Paul
  • Paul (c. 5 – c. 64/67 AD), commonly known as Paul the Apostle and Saint Paul and also known by his Hebrew name Saul of Tarsus.
  • He was from a devout Jewish family based in the city of Tarsus,
  • The Book of Acts indicates that Paul was a Roman citizen by birth,
  • Paul referred to himself as being "of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee".[Phil. 3:5]
  • Acts 23:16 quotes Paul referring to his family by saying he was "a Pharisee, born of Pharisees".
  • The family had a history of religious piety.[2 Timothy 1:3] Apparently, the family lineage had been very attached to Pharisaic traditions and observances for generations.[Philippians 3:5–6]
  • Paul's Jewish name was "Saul" (Hebrew: שאול)
  • Adopting his Roman name was typical of Paul's missionary style. His method was to put people at their ease and to approach them with his message in a language and style to which they could relate,
  • Paul [was] a member of the Tribe of Benjamin
  • It was typical for the Jews of that time to have two names: one Hebrew, the other Latin or Greek.
Paul the Apostle - Wikipedia

Whether Paul was or was not a Jew was not the point of my post. It was about persecutions in the early church. There will be no more comments from me on this trivial matter.:wave:
 
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Ligurian

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Wikipedia: Paul
  • Paul (c. 5 – c. 64/67 AD), commonly known as Paul the Apostle and Saint Paul and also known by his Hebrew name Saul of Tarsus.
  • He was from a devout Jewish family based in the city of Tarsus,
  • The Book of Acts indicates that Paul was a Roman citizen by birth,
  • Paul referred to himself as being "of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee".[Phil. 3:5]
  • Acts 23:16 quotes Paul referring to his family by saying he was "a Pharisee, born of Pharisees".
  • The family had a history of religious piety.[2 Timothy 1:3] Apparently, the family lineage had been very attached to Pharisaic traditions and observances for generations.[Philippians 3:5–6]
  • Paul's Jewish name was "Saul" (Hebrew: שאול)
  • Adopting his Roman name was typical of Paul's missionary style. His method was to put people at their ease and to approach them with his message in a language and style to which they could relate,
  • Paul [was] a member of the Tribe of Benjamin
  • It was typical for the Jews of that time to have two names: one Hebrew, the other Latin or Greek.
Paul the Apostle - Wikipedia

Whether Paul was or was not a Jew was not the point of my post. It was about persecutions in the early church. There will be no more comments from me on this trivial matter.:wave:

So... calling himself by a Roman name would put people at ease... when Rome was invading the world? Yeah... I don't get that logic either. :yawn:
 
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Ligurian

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The point Jesus was making in Matthew 16:13-23 is that the things of man are of the devil. And we are opposed to God by nature.

There are only two sides in this conflict: good and evil.

Opposed to God by nature... nonsense. Jesus never says that.

Matthew 19:13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put [his] hands on them, and pray: and the Disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto Me: for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven.

Here's your good
vs
evil:

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Matthew 7:26 And every one that heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
 
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Guojing

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Israel the nation is separate. I showed as much in Galatians 4:21-31.

Israel the nation / modern day Sate is made up of Jews, Gentiles / believers and unbelievers.

If you refer to the nation Israel as the Jews over history, I also distinguished them (believing Jews versus unbelieving Jews and pointed out where the Apostle Paul did too in Romans 9:6 and Romans 2:28-29).

Spirit Israel (believers in Jesus) is distinct (distinguished) from Physical Israel (Jewish-born non believers in Jesus).

Going by how you distinguish between physical and spiritual Israel:

So gentiles who believed, why do you not call them spiritual gentiles, and gentiles who do not believe, you should call them physical gentiles.

Why do you insist that gentiles who believed must be spiritual Israel? Why not spiritual gentiles?
 
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JohnD70X7

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Going by how you distinguish between physical and spiritual Israel:

So gentiles who believed, why do you not call them spiritual gentiles, and gentiles who do not believe, you should call them physical gentiles.

Why do you insist that gentiles who believed must be spiritual Israel? Why not spiritual gentiles?

Because God calls all who believe "All Israel."

Romans 11:25–27 (AV)
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
 
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Guojing

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Because God calls all who believe "All Israel."

Romans 11:25–27 (AV)
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Do you think God might be saying "the entire nation of Israel" shall be saved at the 2nd coming of Christ, which happens at the end of Jacob's trouble/Tribulation?

There is no particular reason for you to insert us, the Body of Christ, into that term correct? We are the fulness of the Gentiles that comes in.
 
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JohnD70X7

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Opposed to God by nature... nonsense. Jesus never says that.

Matthew 19:13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put [his] hands on them, and pray: and the Disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto Me: for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven.

Here's your good
vs
evil:

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Matthew 7:26 And every one that heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Interesting you left out:

Matthew 16:23 (AV)
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
 
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JohnD70X7

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1 Peter 1:1 Peter, apostle [of] Jesus Christ, [to the] elect stranger diaspora [in] Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
The "world" in John 3:16 = this:
Isaiah 24:4-5 The earth mourns, and the world is ruined, the lofty ones of the earth are mourning. And she has sinned by reason of her inhabitants; because they have transgressed the law, and changed the ordinances, even the everlasting covenant.LXX

Genesis 17:3-4 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, 4 As for Me, behold, My covenant [is] with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Genesis 17:13-14 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken My covenant.

Genesis 22:15-18 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son]: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which [is] upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed My voice.

So, they took foreign wives

Genesis 38:2 And Judah saw there a daughter of a certain Canaanite, whose name [was] Shuah; and he took her, and went in unto her. 5 And she yet again conceived, and bare a son; and called his name Shelah: and he was at Chezib, when she bare him. 1 Chronicles 4:21-23 The sons of Shelah the son of Judah [were], Er the father of Lecah, and Laadah the father of Mareshah, and the families of the house of them that wrought fine linen, of the house of Ashbea, 22 And Jokim, and the men of Chozeba, and Joash, and Saraph, who had the dominion in Moab, and Jashubilehem. And [these are] ancient things. 23 These [were] the potters, and those that dwelt among plants and hedges: there they dwelt with the king for his work.

Genesis 41:45 And Pharaoh called Joseph's name Zaphnathpaaneah; and he gave him to wife Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On. And Joseph went out over [all] the land of Egypt.

Exodus 2:21 And Moses was content to dwell with the man: and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. Numbers 12:1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.

Joshua 2:1 And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot's house, named Rahab, and lodged there.

Judges 14:1-2 And Samson went down to Timnath, and saw a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines. 2 And he came up, and told his father and his mother, and said, I have seen a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines: now therefore get her for me to wife.

Ruth 1:4 And they took them wives of the women of Moab; the name of the one [was] Orpah, and the name of the other Ruth: and they dwelled there about ten years.

1 Kings 11:1 But King Solomon loved many foreign women, as well as the daughter of Pharaoh: women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians, and Hittites;

1 Chronicles 3:5 And these were born unto him in Jerusalem; Shimea, and Shobab, and Nathan, and Solomon, four, of Bathshua the daughter of Ammiel:

Matthew 1:5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; 1:6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her [that had been the wife] of Urias;

That's just a small sample. What do you suppose happened to the children of these foreign wives? Ezra found bunches of these women and their children... they put them away... sent them off like Abraham sent off Keturah and her sons. And so, wherever they went they each had x# children, and they had x# children, and they had x# children... And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed My voice.

The question to ask is this: which nations circumcize? Genesis 17:13-14
Circumcision By Country 2021

Your focus is on the Old Covenant. Mine is on the New.

Romans 4:9–12 (AV)
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Galatians 3:24–28 (AV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
 
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JohnD70X7

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God's people in the OT were called Israel, God's people in the NT are called the church, both being the one olive tree of God's people going back to Abraham (Romans 11:16-17, Romans 11:20). . .
called the Israel of God (Galatians 6:16), or true Israel (Romans 2:28-29, Romans 9:6-9), or spiritual Israel (Galatians 3:29).

Since not all Israel are believing-in-Jesus-Christ Israel, not all Israel are God's people (Romans 11:16-17, Romans 11:20).
Hence the distinction between Israel and true Israel of the promise (Romans 9:6-9).

Galatians 4:21–31 (AV)
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Ephesians 2:11–22 (AV)
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 3:16 (AV)
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
 
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JohnD70X7

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All God's people are the one olive tree going back to Abraham, of Romans 11, consistng of both OT and NT saints.

God's plan to reach out to the entire world is as old as Abraham the father of many nations (Genesis). Jeremiah (the prophet to the nations) prophesied of the New Covenant with the House of Judah and the House of Israel. No mention of Gentiles. See previous post on Galatians 4, Ephesians 2, 1 Corinthians 3:16, etc.
 
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JohnD70X7

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Do you think God might be saying "the entire nation of Israel" shall be saved at the 2nd coming of Christ, which happens at the end of Jacob's trouble/Tribulation?

There is no particular reason for you to insert us, the Body of Christ, into that term correct? We are the fulness of the Gentiles that comes in.

If Romans 11 is stating that all Jews will be saved, none would be happier than myself (perhaps the Apostle Paul who wrote):

Romans 9:1–13 (AV)
1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Note how Paul relegates the unbelieving Jews to Hagar (Ishmael):

Galatians 4:21–31 (AV)
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

But included in the House of Israel ← see Jeremiah 31:31-37 is:

Galatians 3:24–28 (AV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:11–22 (AV)
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 3:16 (AV)
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
 
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JohnD70X7

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If "all Israel will be saved" means everyone born Jewish, then Paul fussed about nothing in Romans 9. The witness (first to the Jew then the Gentile) should have only been to the Gentiles. The rich man (Luke 16:19-31) certainly got a raw deal.

Does all mean everyone?
Or is it rather the fulness thereof?

And as I said based on Romans 9:6 / Romans 2:28-29 / Deuteronomy 10:16 / Jeremiah 9:26 that there is a Spirit Israel and a Physical Israel. All Israel is referring to Spirit Israel.
 
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Guojing

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If "all Israel will be saved" means everyone born Jewish, then Paul fussed about nothing in Romans 9. The witness (first to the Jew then the Gentile) should have only been to the Gentiles. The rich man (Luke 16:19-31) certainly got a raw deal.

Does all mean everyone?
Or is it rather the fulness thereof?

And as I said based on Romans 9:6 / Romans 2:28-29 / Deuteronomy 10:16 / Jeremiah 9:26 that there is a Spirit Israel and a Physical Israel. All Israel is referring to Spirit Israel.

He is not saying every Jew will be saved, he is saying the nation of Israel at the end of the Tribulation will be saved corporately, as a nation.

If you are a Jew now, and your lifespan ends before the Tribulation, and you did not believe the gospel found in 1 Cor 15:1-4, you are lost like any unbelieving gentile.
 
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ShineyDays2

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So... calling himself by a Roman name would put people at ease... when Rome was invading the world? Yeah... I don't get that logic either.
I couldn't resist this one! :scratch:

Yes, calling himself by his Roman name was a wise thing to do as long as it was truthful. I too have done the same thing. Not by changing my name though.

There is one thing I have noticed of people who have lived all their lives in one area of a state or country and that is that they DO NOT LIKE PEOPLE MOVING FROM other states, or country because they don't want the "foreigners/newcomers" to start changing things that they have lived or believed like forever.

Example: I was born in the northeastern part of the USA when I was 3 years old. My parents moved the family to the southeastern part of the USA where my dad had been born and we lived there for 11 years. During those school years we moved a lot and was always teased about being a "Yankee". Then my parents moved back to the same state I had been born in. Having a southern accent by then I was "rebel" so I practiced how to speak as they spoke so the teasing would go away.

After I got married (in the north) we remained in the same state I was born in (Massachusetts). We knew people that lived on Cape Cod (a famous place for tourist). People from NY would come up and pay such high prices for home that the people who lived there all their lives could not afford to remain there due to the higher taxes. They did not like outsiders pushing them out of "their territory."

We then moved to NH. We heard constantly "we don't like people coming to NH and changing our ways of doing things.

We then bought a cabin on a lake in central Maine and eventually moved there where we were blatantly told the same old thing...."We have a lot of dirt roads and you people down in NH have a lot of highways. We like out dirt roads so get used to it because you will never be a Mainer no matter how long you live here!"

Then we inherited a home in southern California from a relative that was in a subdivision that had "covenants" . There was a half wall of beautiful plants that hung halfway over the wall. We were informed that if we did not trim them then we would be fined...."because we don't like those plants hanging over walls here so change it!"

Upon retirement age, we decided to move back to the south where I had spent my school years and where my dad was born. I had to let people know that my roots were in the south before they would accept me as being a "southerner after all." Go figure!

The moral of my story is that "people do not like change" any more than the people liked wandering in the wilderness after having survived the Egyptian plagues.

Paul used his name legitimately as a Roman citizen speaking to Gentiles. (Wikipedia) he also bore the Latin name of "Paul" (essentially a Latin approximation of Saul) – in biblical Greek: Παῦλος (Paulos), and in Latin: Paulus.[Acts 16:37][22:25–28] It was typical for the Jews of that time to have two names: one Hebrew, the other Latin or Greek.:wave:
 
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Clare73

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Opposed to God by nature... nonsense. Jesus never says that.
Contrare. . .

"He who does not believe in the Son of God is condemned already."-- no questions asked (John 3:18)

"No one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." (John 6:65)

The NT word of God certainly does say that. . .in Ephesians 2:3; Romans 8:7-8.
 
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Clare73

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God's plan to reach out to the entire world is as old as Abraham the father of many nations (Genesis).
Apart from Israel, the entire world is Gentiles.
Jeremiah (the prophet to the nations) prophesied of the New Covenant with the House of Judah and the House of Israel. No mention of Gentiles. See previous post on Galatians 4, Ephesians 2, 1 Corinthians 3:16, etc.
Am I understanding you correctly? Are you saying Jeremiah is the end of God's revelation?

There's that whole NT thing--setting aside of the sacrifices, the defilement laws and cleansings, the Aaronic priesthood, the mediatorship of Moses; making the Old Covenant obsolete (Hebrews 8:13); Christ, Mediator and High Priest mediating and ministering the New Covenant of Jeremiah, etc., etc., etc.

I had you for better informed than that. . .so what am I missing here?
 
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Bruce Leiter

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Hi all, I would like to know your thoughts on who you believe God's ISRAEL is under the NEW COVENANT? I believe the scriptures show that God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD - The Church. I have finished a prayerful detailed study of the scriptures which I will present here in this thread. Happy to know your thoughts? Who is God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT and why? - scripture please. Here are the linked posts in this thread that show God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT is all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD - the Church.

1. ORIGIN OF ISRAEL AND THE 12 TRIBES linked
2. MEANING OF THE NAME OF GOD'S ISRAEL linked
3. GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT IS GOD'S CHURCH linked
4. GENTILES ARE NOW GRAFTED IN WITH GOD'S ISRAEL linked

God bless
I agree with you. A quick reading of Romans 4 shows that all believers are adopted children of Abraham by grace through faith and therefore heirs of God's kingdom.
 
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Fervent

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Kinda hard to see how Paul considered himself a Judaean, since he came from Tarsus of the tribe of Benjamin... but this must be the first place where the whole 12 tribes started calling themselves Jews... or rather, Ioudaios... since the name Jew seems to be connected with the theology called Judaism, today:

There's no mystery here if you know the history of the kingdom. Judea was comprised of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, not just Judah. Benjamin belongs to David, and are Jews in the sense that they have always been subject to Judea. So Paul naturally would have considered himself a Jew because ethnic/national jews were comprised of both Judah and Benjamin and were contrasted with the Samaritans who were descended from Israel but had lost their tribal identities from the exile. So it has nothing to do with the 12 tribes all calling themselves Jews, and everything to do with what tribes the kingdom of Judah were comprised of.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I think one thing that a lot of people seem to forget and that the new covenant was never made with gentiles *Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27. Gods' Israel according to the new covenant scriptures are no longer all those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but all those who are now born of the Spirit who believe and follow Gods' Word *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:27-28; Romans 2:28-29. There is no more Jew or Greek all are now one in Christ. If we are not a part of God's Israel born into God's new covenant promise through faith we have no part in Gods' new covenant promise.

God bless.
 
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